Money and MIL - advice needed (sorry it is quite long)

[shil0846]

This is more about my mother-in-law, however it is starting to affect my relationship with my husband and I would really appreciate some advice.

My father-in-law died last year leaving a lot of debt, but also a lot of valuable art work. My MIL also had a £15k credit card bill on which she was paying masses of interest. When she was widowed, she couldn't afford to keep paying the interest and was desperate. We therefore paid for the funeral and also took £15k out of our mortgage to lend it to her for 3 months to give her time to sell some of the art work. We are paying 4% interest on this.

11 months later she hasn't sold anything. I have sent pictures of items to auction houses to get them valued, but when I tell her what they say she tuts and says she paid far more than that and she wouldn't sell for such a low price.

The added complication is that I had a baby 6 months ago and we need the money back to buy a bigger place (we're in a tiny flat) and to fund my maternity leave. My MIL is aware of this (I have told her as plainly as I can without upsetting her). Her reaction is to apologize and say that she is ruining everything...yet she just doesn't sell anything. Most recently when I raise it she's started telling me how lucky I am to have had all this time with my DS, as she went back to work when my husband was 4 months old.

I generally have a good relationship with my MIL, but am starting to resent the fact that my family is suffering because we paid her credit card bill. I also feel duped. My husband gets really defensive when I mention it and reminds me that she's lost her husband and he's lost his father. So we end up arguing.

I know that the grief is still raw and suspect she doesn't want to part with any possessions she bought with her late husband, but I'm desperate to spend longer with my DS and could do so if she would only pay us back.

Any advice would be much appreciated.

Xx

I actually just cheered aloud. Well done for saying what needed to be said!

If the car is her's to sell then you shouldn't be paying maintenance costs. She is incredibly deluded and even suggesting that this is an offer to help is ridiculous.

I think your husband needs a wake-up call. It's unfair to put his mother's wants above his child's needs. Unfortunately he needs someone to point this out repeatedly. Stick with the broken record technique. She agreed. She has the assets (and more assets than you.)

So technically, if the car is hers to sell, she owes you the backdated maintenance, insurance costs etc that you have paid since you thought the car was yours?! Obviously that can't happen, but think of it that way. You have done really well so far, this is a difficult situation and your husband has not given you enough support.

I think "deluded" is a very polite way of putting it. She remembers the car is yours when it needs money spending on it, but decides it's hers when its being used as a runaround or when money can be raised on it. How awfully convenient that her delusions run in such a helpful direction.

Good for you for standing up to her on her crap. And I hope your husband shows more mettle than he has to date.

MIL's crying because she's been caught, not because she's sorry. But get shot of the car anyway, it cant hurt.

Another lurker coming to cheer you on, shil - you did what needed doing ... but I suspect that you're going to have to stay strong and keep pushing.

I can't decide whether the best thing is to just take the car cash as part of the settlement (even though it wasn't your MILs to sell - lets face it, it was never really your dh's either was it?) as long as you make 101% sure you get the rest of the dosh direct from her. What's your feeling?

Sorry but she could still be fobbing you off. She agreed for someone to come around before and value things then wouldn't let them look at most of it. She has been fobbing you off for a year and she will continue to do so. She must know its all coming from you and is probably waiting for your DH to just write it off.

That car was a gift, it isn't hers to sell and it wouldn't pay off her debt to you. It would just give you extra money and she would still owe you 15k, PLUS interest.

Also, you know your DH isn't going to agree to sell the car.

I feel really sorry for you. She isn't a frail old woman, she is being manipulative (turning on the tears/changing the subject/talking so you can't get a word in). She knows exactly what she is doing.

I really don't see your DH ever turning around and telling her whats what and I am afraid this remortgage stuff will come up again in the future and your DH will want to help her because he doesn't see why she should move.

Also, if the car was a gift, why is it still there with her driving it? Why is she on the insurance that she isn't paying for?

Your DH really needs to see that he isn't in the financial position for luxury moneypits cars and lending money with the view that he won't get it back (I think he would have written the 15k off a long time ago, its only because you are pursuing it).

They were bereaved, yes. A YEAR AGO. They have had time to come to terms with it to a certain extent and deal with all of this crap. They wont and don't want to. The answer always seems to be more debt and loans and its this attitude that needs changing. Fine art is bullshit when you are thousands of £££s in debt!

You were so justified. Still can't quite believe the cheek oh her suggesting you should sell your car to pay her debt though.

The straight talking means that both DH and MIL know that this unpaid loan is putting a strain on your marriage. If MIL did go crying to her son after the phone call then that's the ultimate proof that she cares not a fig about any of you. She had two options after the phone call. A bit of reflection on the events so far, why you were driven to say these things, and how she can repair or minimise the damage to your marriage, or to go all-out with a divide and conquer approach between you and her son now she knows where the weak point lies and how deep it is.

Well done OP. And what Mojo said. If she is reflective you have made progress. If she wails to DH and he takes her side you need to throw down the gauntlet and tell him enough is e-fucking-nough! He has been a complete weakling in all this and she is exploiting this.

I could not respect my DH if he ever behaved like this but he wouldn't because my PIL are lovely, generous people who would go without themselves rather than see their GC suffer. Your MIL is behaving despicably. I wonder what all her church friends would think of her own unique take on 'charity begins at home'...

CHANGE YOUR WILL! Something happens to you, she will squander everything that belongs to your son with your h's entire complicity.

'They were bereaved, yes. A YEAR AGO. They have had time to come to terms with it to a certain extent and deal with all of this crap. They wont and don't want to.'

This. Last year, we lost our child. Of course, not expected. Horrendous. We do not have the financial wherewithal of this creature and have suffered very heavily financially. You know what, it's too bad. We just have to deal. They don't because they do not want to.

Stop enabling them! Justified? Your child's father allows his fucking mother to snatch a child's home and mother from him. His child's.

It all sounds like a totally crazy situation. How anyone can want to hang onto assets in favour of getting into debt sounds ill informed, terrible with money, pig headed & arrogant.

I read this thread from beginning and glad to see things are coming to a head slowly.

You seem desperate to hang onto good familial relations. I suggest you use your November visit to sit down and have a hard chat without getting over emotional about how your are going to salvage the family in time for wedding & Christmas & allow you to all to enjoy your dc's early years rather than warring about money. Everyone getting back to financial autonomy is step one to that.

At the moment there seems to be lots of blather about auctioning shit, but no action.

Also suggest you & dh get counselling and sound financial Advice to sort out your joint goals & how you're going to get them.

That update of yours above is fantastic shil. In your situation, I'd bite her hand off at the offer of selling DH's (her) car. It was never really yours, it's an albatross around your neck, and if your MIL sells "DH's possession" to repay her debt, you'll have a brilliant case study of her fundamental dishonesty (to present to DH) for years.

Oh, and you have to re-do your will and re-configure the ownership of your home. You simply can't afford to let your DH think that things are "returning to normal". He must be made to understand that his failure to stand up for his family has caused a real world change.

Absolutely agree with Mojo on how this is the opportunity for MIL t either show herself as selfish and delusional - or totally ruthless. And also agree with the others on how essential it is to alter the ownership basis of your home, and tp change your will so your assets are left in trust for your son - and without DH being the trustee, I'm afraid. He doesn't sound very good with money in all honesty.

Wow..just read this thread, all of it and I never read threads this long! Everything has been said already, but just sell the car..it may have been given as a present but forget about that now, take the money and put it towards the loan if you have to. You didn't want it in the first place and it costs you loads too so you'll save more.

Keep us updated!!

DH: But why are you insisting on changing your will and the ownership of our home?

shil: Because I used to trust you to act in the best interests of our family, and especially of our son, but now I'm not so sure. Since I can't get the assurance I need from you, this is effectively an insurance I'm taking out against unwelcome and unexpected future events.

Well done, shil, but be clear about what happened here:

She used tears to manipulate.

You still need to protect your son from her and her son, who will between them destroy your family so she can live high on the hog.

Shil, hope it went ok with your dh and he has praised you for being the one to stand up to his dm and put your family first.

It does sound as though she has a crush on someone. He could just be being kind, but you never know! Would your dh accept she might want to have a romantic life after your fil? I don't know if I would mention that as he might fly off the handle at the thought of it. And that she is using the excuse or his df and grieving not to pay.

This has the potential to become extremely acrimonious between you and dh over his mother, if he continues with backing her, not you, and you won't back down and just give it up.

Please don't sell your jewellery. Sell hers. She probably wishes she had kept it, threatened to sell it, your dh buy it from her, and then she wears it til she can't. Like he has suggested doing with you. I wonder if the classic car present for your wedding was a similar situation which you had no knowledge of.

I am REALLY impressed by how you laid the situation out to her so clearly - fantastically difficult to do and you did it with such eloquence (I bet you are brilliant at your job, whatever it is).

That said I agree with the others that she has manipulated you. Her first instinct, her very first, was not to clear her debt by accepting that it is her debt and she owes you: it was to assess which of the possessions in her care is worth least to her and offer to sell it. The car, the wedding present to her son which you have jointly been paying the upkeep for - under what I guess are totally false pretences.

If things are not at breaking point, might it be worth pointing out to your DH that this thing which he has assumed has all sorts of value (to his parents and therefore has taken emotional and financial responsibility for in the guise of a gift) is actually fairly worthless to his mother, probably always has been in a way - and he has to question what sort of manipulation was going on when they gave it as a wedding present? Would he understand that? Because they did a number on him, right there.

Also, fairly soon, around the time when things are to actually get done: expect some illness from her.

I wouldn't be so sure that the intentions of the friendly gent from church are entirely platonic...

Sorry to harp on about this, but I'm still agog that their wedding present to their child was a debt, and she now feels she can use the item which is yours to pay you back.

Completely warped.

I have to admit that I feel a bit uncomfortable speculating about the love life of the MIL, it seems a bit overly personal and malicious.

Who knows why she is having her hair done so much - perhaps to fill the time that she used to spend with FIL? References to the gentleman at church could be to try to get DH to feel guilty that this man is doing her odd jobs, rather than her son, we simply don't know.

In any event DF has been dead for a year, if MIL wants to have a BF surely that's her affair and no one elses. The grieving as I believe has now been established is more around a loss of lifestyle, the reality that her comfortable life was an illusion sustained on debt.

I agree with zennudist :

"You seem desperate to hang onto good familial relations. I suggest you use your November visit to sit down and have a hard chat without getting over emotional about how your are going to salvage the family in time for wedding & Christmas & allow you to all to enjoy your dc's early years rather than warring about money. Everyone getting back to financial autonomy is step one to that. "

If (fingers crossed) OP and DH can get back to a financially neutral position, then any future financial requests can be greeted with "Oh but it causes such family disharmony when money is involved. I love MIL so much that I don't want that to impact on our special relationship," or some other rubbish.

MIL is in a precarious position regarding finances.It's not in her best interest for the two of you to split up, she knows that getting you back
to work means more dosh for your DH to cough up, whereas if you split then he will have to fund not two, but three households. She isn't daft - that's why she is pushing it so far but no further. Fingers crossed, now she knows you mean business those artworks are off to the auction house.

Oh and shil whilst you are on a roll, perhaps you could consider phoning up BIL and telling him that whilst he apparently cannot afford to hire a morning suit for his big day, he is in no state of readiness, financially or maturity wise to get married. Sorry, I know you won't, but everyone needs to get the picture that the bank of Mr & Mrs Shil is closed for future business, particularly Mr Shil.

Hope things were OK when dh got home last night. Hope you are OK, shil.