Money and MIL - advice needed (sorry it is quite long)

[shil0846]

This is more about my mother-in-law, however it is starting to affect my relationship with my husband and I would really appreciate some advice.

My father-in-law died last year leaving a lot of debt, but also a lot of valuable art work. My MIL also had a £15k credit card bill on which she was paying masses of interest. When she was widowed, she couldn't afford to keep paying the interest and was desperate. We therefore paid for the funeral and also took £15k out of our mortgage to lend it to her for 3 months to give her time to sell some of the art work. We are paying 4% interest on this.

11 months later she hasn't sold anything. I have sent pictures of items to auction houses to get them valued, but when I tell her what they say she tuts and says she paid far more than that and she wouldn't sell for such a low price.

The added complication is that I had a baby 6 months ago and we need the money back to buy a bigger place (we're in a tiny flat) and to fund my maternity leave. My MIL is aware of this (I have told her as plainly as I can without upsetting her). Her reaction is to apologize and say that she is ruining everything...yet she just doesn't sell anything. Most recently when I raise it she's started telling me how lucky I am to have had all this time with my DS, as she went back to work when my husband was 4 months old.

I generally have a good relationship with my MIL, but am starting to resent the fact that my family is suffering because we paid her credit card bill. I also feel duped. My husband gets really defensive when I mention it and reminds me that she's lost her husband and he's lost his father. So we end up arguing.

I know that the grief is still raw and suspect she doesn't want to part with any possessions she bought with her late husband, but I'm desperate to spend longer with my DS and could do so if she would only pay us back.

Any advice would be much appreciated.

Xx

OP, just read the entire thread. Sorry you're going through this.

Well done for the progress you've made so far though. I agree with the pp who say not to sell the necklace.

How are you doing regarding 50/50 & changing the will? Sorry if you've answered this,didnt see anything. I think it's an excellent idea. Like someone said,you could always change back if things change in the future.

MIL is taking the piss & DH is enabling her to do so. In fact, I think he'd doing a fair job of it himself.

So they think you're not experienced enough? On your visit there, have someone come and to value.

Shil, your DH is completely out to lunch (although doubtless you already know that). With what mysterious money is he planning to buy the necklace off you? Yet another loan? I'm getting frustrated just reading about all this malarkey, goodness only knows how you're coping actually living it. You must be a very strong woman.

I agree with the poster just above re: following through on changing your will and changing the way you hold equity in your flat. Don’t just say you’ll do it, actually do it. It should give your DH something to think about, and it ensures your son gets some money if anything happens to you (I highly doubt anything will happen to you, but make the changes anyway, for your own peace of mind). If you’ve already made the changes, my apologies. I must have missed it.

I have been wracking my brain trying to think of reasons why your DH could be acting this way. Not excuses (because there is no excuse for how frelling irresponsible he’s being), but reasons. Because it’s totally illogical, if we’re applying earth logic. The only thing I can think of is that having been raised by parents who prioritized living on credit to keep up appearances over actually behaving responsibly, he’s not used to logic being applied to financial matters. By bringing logic into it, you are puncturing the lifelong bubble of “Oh, everything will be dandy if we just get another loan.”

Also, he may not have realized how badly in debt his parents were until after his father died (you mention that you yourself had previously thought they were quite well off. Maybe he did too). In which case he may still be getting his head around the whole concept of, “No, I don’t have expectations from my parents, all I have are financial obligations.” None of the above excuses his behaviour in the slightest. He’s had a year to get his head around it. Also, him unilaterally writing off the loan and putting all the onus on you to get it repaid is unpardonable. As is his refusal to sell at least one of the classic cars or the necklace.

I suspect he’s seeing you as the enemy because you’re not buying into the family myth that all financial disasters can be staved off for another day with more credit. His parents had maybe thirty years to indoctrinate him, and by trying to undo that indoctrination and inject some desperately-needed reality, you’re the bad guy. Which is an incredibly unpleasant situation for you to be in when you’ve done absolutely nothing wrong.

Canuck has nailed it, IMO.

I'd express it in a slightly different way. The MIL is embedded in the myth that she and her husband were successful and can't face the reality that she and her husband and lacked judgement and were were feckless and wasteful.

If she sells off the valuables and then finds out that they're worth far less than they both liked to believe, this will explode the myth and reveal that her dead husband was in some ways quite rubbish. While the valuables remain unsold, they can be great investments indicating terrific judgement.

nauticant that's it - if the car/house/antiques aren't worth as much as they think, it will send her whole belief system crashing down. And That Cannot Happen.

I can't decide if you should go to see her (thus giving you the chance to have it out with her) or cancel your trip (thus pointing out how much you need the money).

What a predicament. How selfish.

I got another text from my MIL yesterday saying she was at the hairdressers - again! I waited until I'd calmed down, and she'd got home, and then I called her and explained that I have no money for luxuries and am having huge rows with my DH over our financial problems, and if she is going to squander money can she at least be subtle and stop rubbing my nose in it.

She responded that when her boys were little she had no money either and never went to the hairdressers, plus she was working too. I'm afraid I lost it at that and told her straight that I have no money because SHE has taken it under false pretenses, and that I would never have had my DS if we had been struggling the way we are now. That we are a young family and she has helped herself to our future, and her tiny grandson is the one who is suffering.

She burst into tears, and I did calm down a bit then. I explained that we wanted to help her but she needs to help herself and engage with the sitauatin and meet us half way. If she's worried about her debts, she has the means to repay them. We spoke for over an hour and she said she'd sell her car (meaning the one we were given as our wedding present). I told her she'd have to speak to my DH about that, as it was given to him. Possibly it's unreasonable, and although I'd like to get rid of the car, I dont see whyshee immediately wants to sell something that was gifted to us to pay her debts. It would be different if she didn't have the means to pay herself, but she does.

Eventually she agreed to call an auction house today and put 3 of the (hopefully) valuable items she originally identified in to be sold in December. She has texted me to say they are coming round next week.

I feel better now I've stopped pretending everything is fine and cleared the air a little. Still I do feel guilty haranguing someone who's old and lost her husband only last year. It's not a nice feeling.

Hugs OP.

I've just come out from lurking to give you a round of applause. AMAZING!

DO NOT FEEL GUILTY!

It's not a nice feeling, no, but it is your feeling and a perfectly reasonable one, so I think you did fine here, OP. I agree about the car - she should sell her stuff first. But I also think your DH should take note that if she is (finally) going to show willing and sell things, then so should he. Hopefully now having had it out with her like this will pave the way for better developments.

Applause!!! I know that was difficult, and you probably still feel wobbly, but that needed to be said. Your last paragraph says it all; you are a warm, decent person and lovely mother, and it is tough for you to have to say these things, but she really needed to hear all of that. Bravo!!!

I like the way she calls your car hers.

So she's selling something of YOURS she gave to you, to pay you back?

Oh my, she's good at this

I don't think you can let your H deal with her alone op, they will wriggle out of it.

She is selling her wedding present to you, your possession, in order to repay her debt to you? What a piece of work she is.

I would feel no guilt, OP, as your MIL is obviously incapable of feeling that emotion.

Ah sorry op I see you pointed that out to her

I'll bet anything it gets sold as part of her debt to you, even though you've paid for it

Well done op, and stop feeling sorry for her. She doesn't feel sorry for you.

Brilliant about standing ground about the car. She's very quick isn't she?

Don't go up there til you have your money. Or she will put off sales again as you clearly have the money to travel despite you saying you are skint!

Well done for speaking up. Do you think a bank or council tax or a debt collection agency would think being widowed a year ago was an excuse for racking up further debts? Of course not. A very sad thing has happened, but she has the support of her family and seems to be milking her dependency for all it's worth.
Telling you she had it hard when a young mum - I think if she'd been in the room with you you'd have throttled her!

You have done the right thing. I honestly think she has given no thought to the fact you are being impacted by her actions. Well done.

Shil, your stress levels must be through the roof with this latest nose-rubbing and then the suggestion that she sells your (as in, yours and DH's, no matter whose name is on the log book, because you are married). You were very brave to stand up to her and tell it straight but I really don't see what else you could have done when you've been pushed into an absolute corner by all this.

I truly hope she goes through with seeing the auctioneers - and, more importantly, that she actually lets them take the items away with them - instead, potentially, of declining their advice because their valuation is "too low" and she of course knows better than they do.

As for the car, maybe if she is finally going to repay you this need not be sold. But then again, do you actually want to retain it - and all the associated costs that come with it - when MIL is by far the greatest beneficiary of it remaining "in the family" (as they see it) ? If, on the other hand, she swerves out of paying again (would not be surprised to hear her protest "but I did try, I did get them round as I said I would, but their estimations were ridiculous") then, as has been previously suggested, it would obviously be a good idea for that car to be sold instead of "solving" the cost of your ML and protecting your savings. HOWEVER, if it is sold, that would have NOTHING whatsoever to do with the debt MIL owes. She would still owe you £15k - plus interest - and no way should she, or your DH, consider that her debt is reduced by whatever the car fetches.

(should read: " ..... and protecting your savings by DH taking out a loan").

I've been following your thread, really feel for you op.

Obviously it's totally cheeky for her to offer to sell the car, but I would let her go for it if I were you - it's just a financial burden for you and this gets you shot of it without a fight. And it would go a long way towards clearing the debt. My only worry would be that she would sell the car and then think her duty to you was discharged, so I would push her to sell some of the other things first.

And keep your necklace for sure. Your Dhs attitude to money and debt is worrying, you would be wise to have access to some money of your own.

I can't believe the first thing she said she would sell was "her" car that isn't even hers to sell! No actually I can believe it.

Don't be fooled by her tears. They aren't the tears of someone who has just realised the gravity of the situation on your family, they are purely selfish tears.

You're doing great.

I have just thought. Make sure if your DH/she go ahead with selling the car, that it is extra money for your family. It does not repay one iota of the money she owes you, as it is your family's possession, not hers.

I would sell the car myself, you're getting no use from it.

But it would be seperate from the £15,000 she owes you. It would ease the pressure of you concerning your ML, but I wouldn't let it relieve the pressure on MIL to pay you back.

X post!