Money and MIL - advice needed (sorry it is quite long)

[shil0846]

This is more about my mother-in-law, however it is starting to affect my relationship with my husband and I would really appreciate some advice.

My father-in-law died last year leaving a lot of debt, but also a lot of valuable art work. My MIL also had a £15k credit card bill on which she was paying masses of interest. When she was widowed, she couldn't afford to keep paying the interest and was desperate. We therefore paid for the funeral and also took £15k out of our mortgage to lend it to her for 3 months to give her time to sell some of the art work. We are paying 4% interest on this.

11 months later she hasn't sold anything. I have sent pictures of items to auction houses to get them valued, but when I tell her what they say she tuts and says she paid far more than that and she wouldn't sell for such a low price.

The added complication is that I had a baby 6 months ago and we need the money back to buy a bigger place (we're in a tiny flat) and to fund my maternity leave. My MIL is aware of this (I have told her as plainly as I can without upsetting her). Her reaction is to apologize and say that she is ruining everything...yet she just doesn't sell anything. Most recently when I raise it she's started telling me how lucky I am to have had all this time with my DS, as she went back to work when my husband was 4 months old.

I generally have a good relationship with my MIL, but am starting to resent the fact that my family is suffering because we paid her credit card bill. I also feel duped. My husband gets really defensive when I mention it and reminds me that she's lost her husband and he's lost his father. So we end up arguing.

I know that the grief is still raw and suspect she doesn't want to part with any possessions she bought with her late husband, but I'm desperate to spend longer with my DS and could do so if she would only pay us back.

Any advice would be much appreciated.

Xx

I would say definitely don't show this thread to your husband, OP. He'd probably be angry and humiliated and it would be just another thing to fight about.

Are you sure that he hasn't been prevailed upon to turn the loan into a gift against his eventual share of his inheritance? Maybe he won't get involved because she promised to leave him the house, or a larger share or something, but he hasn't quite managed to tell you that yet?

I remain to be convinced of the chastening effect of DP's being told that people on mumnset disapprove of them. In some particular circumstances it might be effective, but in general I have my doubts.

I like the car idea . But unfortunately it's not in my name. I think torching my MIL garage is the only way I will get my DH to part with the car (and believe me if I thought I could get away with it, I would be sorely tempted).

Catsmother - thank you for your particularly thought provoking post. I know that for the sake of our DS we have to have a better plan in place. Possibly naively, I'm hoping if I ever made it a stark choice between me and DS and his mother, he would choose us. I am very reluctant, however, to put him in that position, and I don't think it has quite come to that yet. My backup plan is getting the items from my MIL in November and getting them sold ASAP, if she thwarts that then my DH will have some difficult choices to make.

There was progress of sorts yesterday. My husband called his mother unprompted (apart from our row at the weekend) and asked her about repayment. Apparently she instantly dissolved into tears (again) and told him she was "trying her best" and is "desperate" to repay us. He says he was stern with her and has told her again that she has to earmark items with a value of £15000 to sell and we will take them away in November. She initially responded that we could take anything we liked, apart from her engagement present to her husband.

When he told her that we would take 3 of the items initially identified, she quickly clarified that we could take 1 item away with us in November to "see how it does". But we couldn't take the 2 more valuable pieces as (apparently) I don't understand Fine art and would sell them too cheaply.

I told him that this is her way of avoiding selling them. Initially he argued saying that his mother was right and I didn't understand how valuable they are. I have sent pictures of the items to all the major London auction houses and top specialist art dealers, and they had all valued them at the same price. Meanwhile she has taken no steps whatsoever to get them sold, or come up with any suggestions as to how to find the mythical buyer who will pay the price she expects.

I also pointed out that she identified the items to be sold at the time we gave her the loan.going through the auction process will take 3 months and then we'd have to go through the process again with the next lot and we can't wait that long, and what about the items she told us she was going to sell when we gave her the loan. I then also burst into floods of tears (which I don't do much so he was quite taken aback). I pointed out that if she is now only getting round to identifying items in effect we are now further back than we were when we lent her the money.

She also hasn't bothered chasing the auction house regarding the 2 items she allowed to be taken last month, to find out when they'll be sold. But has time to get her hair and nails done. These are not the actions of someone desperate to repay us.

I could almost see the penny finally starting to drop, that in fact his mum has done nothing for a year and is just stringing us along. I suspect her conversations with him are like her ones with me, she is so adept at going off at tangents and dominating the conversation that you can't pin her down and end up thinking that you're in the wrong for questioning her. It's only when you think about what she's said and have time to dissect it that you realise the nonsense she's been feeding you.

PS -Deepfried, she WAS a teacher - how did you guess?

That sounds promising OP but of course it'll be a bit of a grim slog until you start to get results.

If your husband starts to backslide again, and you do want to apply pressure, you could mention that you consider this situation as a test of how seriously he takes his responsibilities to his family and as time is going by, your respect for him is draining away.

It sounds like the broken record technique with both your husband and his mother has just 3 tracks.

1 It is what she agreed last year.
2 It is what's best for your son.
3 Giving her more sand to stick her head in isn't helping. ( at whoever said that earlier.) She needs to face reality.

(awaits next instalment when husband or his mother suggest you take on her home and all live together.)

I think you are being so far beyond patience, op. It is a nightmare situation.

IME, it is so much easier to act in the immediate aftermath of a death. You are fairly numb and shocked, and need to do a lot of things so you just get on with it. The longer it goes on, the harder it is to do anything. When my mum and my brother died withon weeks of each other, I was a powerhouse! 3 years later, and we are still still tryong to get some things organised and sold etc, and it is harder to do everyday. You just want it done, and you're sick of the whole bloody thing, because it has just.gone.on.so.long.

So really, the sooner you can get it sorted, the sooner she can forget about it. Your dh isn't doing her any favours.

That does sound promising. Hope it works out.

the tears seem to work!! I suggest you burst into tears a bit more often, time for you to play the helpless, poor woman and see if he bites because it seems that acting all pathetic is the way she has got her own way.
two can play at that game!!

Please don't use fake tears.

Good progress, OP.

I don't think the op is "using" tears. Its perfectly normal expression of misery as a result of being stone walled by her mil and dh.

Your dh did well, but its the same shit, different day isn't it? Really, I wouldn't bother going up at the end of the month unless she is handing the items she earmarked over a year ago over.

Also, you can put a reserve price on items in an auction, obviously a realistic one. Plus many auctions are on line now,not reach worldwide sellers. She's talking rubbish though. However she is getting the desired result for her.

Who's name is on the car at your mils if its a wedding present to you and your dh? And if you have fully comp. car insurance you can drive any car. Or ring your insurance company and get a quote for the day. Or get the garage to come and get it. Your dh can try and wiggle his way out of that one.

He clearly is more comfortable with his dm being able to potter round in it, get her beauty treatments and have a lovely time, supporting the Tories and church, and you not even having a newspaper to read, and being frugal. I'd be in tears too, tbh.

Her sheer brass necked cheek still makes me OP, I'd be in tears daily if I were you - looking at bank statements, looking at calendar and realising ML is ending soon etc etc.

The fact she keeps harping on and on about the auctioneers and valuers not knowing the 'proper' price of the art is crap. Who the feck does she think she is??? That's their job, they do it daily, so anyone with sense would realise that actually they are the experts and respect them as such.

At this stage I'd be willing for her to sell everything in her precious house for the sum of what she owes you.

Your DH really needs to buck up his ideas and have a word with himself. How he can do this to his wife and own child is beyond me.

I also echo what an earlier poster (can't remember the name!) said about perhaps DH and MIL have changed the arrangement.... I think you need to sit him down, maybe sit them both down and look at the whites of their eyes when lying will not be so easy.

I read your last post and was thinking "thank god, he's finally getting stern with her" and then, I read the bit where you describe him arguing (FFS) about her being "right" when it came to the nitty-gritty and her refusing to give up 2 pieces which you, the auctioneers, anybody except her it seems, don't appreciate the value of. It struck me - I'm afraid - that he was paying lip service to you by contacting his mother, but gave up as soon as she raised an objection - almost as if he could then argue himself that he'd tried, but what more can he do when she has "a very good point" about selling those pieces.

Honestly, does he - or she - truly believe you'd spirit them away and flog them for a fiver apiece at the local car boot sale ? It's not in your interests to have them sell at less than a realistic value as you want to maximise the cash you get. As Needles says, auctioneers know their stuff - they also want to sell for as much as they can as their commission increases accordingly with a better sale. In any case, you've now consulted several reputable auction houses and therefore have a very good idea of potential value.

She's quite clearly stalling ...... so what does she suggest then ? When you see her you need to insist that she answers that if she won't let you have the pieces concerned. How is she going to repay the loan otherwise ? Why did she originally promise to sell those items if she's now refusing to ? Honestly ....... depending on how that line of questioning goes, I'd be so very tempted to point out to her that she has effectively lied to you by promising something she seemingly had no intention of ever doing.

Obviously, as before, all of that would be better coming from your H - but will only be effective if he doesn't let himself be swayed by stupid, intelligence-insulting counter arguments. I can only go by what I read here obviously, but the overwhelming impression I'm still getting is that he doesn't really want to pressure his mum, or for her "lifestyle" to alter, and that he's too eager to seize upon any ridiculous excuse so he can then claim that he's done his best, and that she's doing her best (regardless of the original agreement).

As for the car - I could scream for you. It's a "nice to have". Surely to god it's less important than protecting the deposit on your new property ? Surely it's less important than saddling yourselves with more debt ? If it was a "wedding present" (inverted commas because it seems to me it was a very convenient "gift" which, by the transfer of ownership, neatly relieved MIL of running costs even though she still gets to use the bloody thing) then you too should be able to have a say about its use, regardless of whose name is on the log book. Appreciate he may not want to sell it (I wonder, is that for his sake or for his mother's ?) but then you don't want to use up your deposit savings and you don't want to live in a small flat indefinitely ! He wouldn't have to sell it if his mother repaid what was due but as that doesn't seem to be happening, and he doesn't seem right now (though I hope for your sake the penny is rapidly dropping) to really want to push the issue, then the next thing on the list to address the lack of money you need for ML should unquestionably be that car.

How would your H react if you spelled it out to him like that ? What possible argument against selling the car could he possibly present compared to the alternatives ?

I've reported the post above, just in case anyone else was about to (dodgy spam).

Thanks Danny.

The only thing I need to fake are orgasms. Got any of those?

Reporting your post, moron.

Shil it does sound like very slow progress.

Could you try and discuss with your dh that you can only afford to keep one of the classic cars - which one does he want to keep? Completely his choice but only one...

If he gets all nostalgic again, say you understand but you could take some proper photos of it with him in it - him and MIL, ds in it etc - some lovely memories to have of it etc. but it is sitting costing money that you don't have.

I could be wrong but I thought there was only one classic car, which technically belongs to the husband but in practice is only driven by MIL. Even so, it should still be sold.

Mellow, the ops in laws "gave" the op and her dh their classic car, for a wedding present, which lives at mils, she drives it, and op and her dh pay the bills. This is the car that ops dh describes as part of the family.

The ops dh has a classic car as well.

Op, do you have a car? Because your dh selling his and renting out the garage might help. Perhaps if your dh has to give up something he really cares about, it might make him move. I certainly would refuse to fund either car as of now.

Yes, OP's dh has the straightforward option of getting rid of his own classic car, thereby showing he does not have the same approach to money as his dm.

If I've understood correctly, there are 2 "classic" cars - both of which are now owned by the OP and her DH.

The one that's always belonged to the DH is described as a beaten up old MG so am not sure how much that might fetch. But as it's also apparently a money burner, and in the circumstances, anything would be better than nothing IMO.

The other car is the one that used to belong to the ILs but was "given" to the OP & DH as a wedding gift. Yet it remains at MIL's and she has the use of it, while OP & DH pay all the associated costs. OP has said this is worth about £8k which would make a significant contribution to the cost of ML. Obviously if MIL paid up - and soon - it may not need to be sold, but while she's prevaricating, it seems the most sensible solution. While DH remains stubborn over the car, classing it as part of the family, you can perhaps imagine that he probably won't have a great deal of conviction when it comes to being insistent with MIL about selling her stuff. This family seems to treasure things above the well being of people.

There should be no barrier - other than DH's refusal - to sell the £8k car as it no longer belongs to MIL.

Catsmother's correct . There are 2 cars: MG worth approx £1,200 as it's not in a good state. Then the car we (or rather my DH) was given as wedding present and worth approx £8,000. The MG is currently being looked after and used by a friend who is paying any maintenance costs etc for it. It is only the "gift" car that we're paying for. It is completely right that my DH's family value possessions over people, I just don't understand it. I know however that he won't agree to sell the car unless I threaten to leave him over it, and I don't feel that I'm at the stage to make threats like that.

Separately, an obvious point occurred to me last night. My MIL gave me a gift of jewellery as an "heirloom" when my DS was born. It was bought for her by my FIL when my DH was born. It sounds very ungrateful but it is quite showy and not something I would really wear even if I went to big social occasions (which I don't). It's just been sitting in the back of my drawer. I told my DH this morning that I'm going to get it valued with a view to being sold. He went ballistic, telling me he would "buy it off me" (ie get another loan) and he would be incredibly hurt if I did as it's of great sentimental value. I would feel guilty selling it, but I don't feel like I've been left with any choice. I realise I should have mentioned this gift earlier in the thread to show that my MIL is not all bad - before this money issue arose we got on well.

I took it in to be valued earlier today and it's worth about £2-4,000, which is far more than I thought. Although the auction house did say it's not very fashionable so might be difficult to sell. I've left it there to be sold, but still have time to change my mind. My view is that it can do far more good sorting out this family's financial mess than languishing in a drawer, and it is better that it is sold to someone who would enjoy it. If it does sell it will solve so many problems, still I suspect I'm going to have a fight on my hands to convince my DH, and my MIL will never forgive me.

My MIL also texted me this morning in response to mine telling her how much my DS had put on at his weigh in, commenting on his weight gain then saying "sorry money can't get to you sooner". I haven't responded yet.

PS - tears weren't fake, they were born of utter frustration and misery over constant rows, disillusionment with my family and my own stupidity and guilt for having done something that could prejudice my DS's future.

Shil04 - just sending you a hug, you are doing brilliantly!