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Original poster

Money and MIL - advice needed (sorry it is quite long)

859 replies

shil0846 · 23/09/2013 09:38

This is more about my mother-in-law, however it is starting to affect my relationship with my husband and I would really appreciate some advice.

My father-in-law died last year leaving a lot of debt, but also a lot of valuable art work. My MIL also had a £15k credit card bill on which she was paying masses of interest. When she was widowed, she couldn't afford to keep paying the interest and was desperate. We therefore paid for the funeral and also took £15k out of our mortgage to lend it to her for 3 months to give her time to sell some of the art work. We are paying 4% interest on this.

11 months later she hasn't sold anything. I have sent pictures of items to auction houses to get them valued, but when I tell her what they say she tuts and says she paid far more than that and she wouldn't sell for such a low price.

The added complication is that I had a baby 6 months ago and we need the money back to buy a bigger place (we're in a tiny flat) and to fund my maternity leave. My MIL is aware of this (I have told her as plainly as I can without upsetting her). Her reaction is to apologize and say that she is ruining everything...yet she just doesn't sell anything. Most recently when I raise it she's started telling me how lucky I am to have had all this time with my DS, as she went back to work when my husband was 4 months old.

I generally have a good relationship with my MIL, but am starting to resent the fact that my family is suffering because we paid her credit card bill. I also feel duped. My husband gets really defensive when I mention it and reminds me that she's lost her husband and he's lost his father. So we end up arguing.

I know that the grief is still raw and suspect she doesn't want to part with any possessions she bought with her late husband, but I'm desperate to spend longer with my DS and could do so if she would only pay us back.

Any advice would be much appreciated.

Xx

OP posts:
perfectstorm · 27/10/2013 13:53

I suppose it's in the nature of MN that some posters wants threads to have a beginning, a huge fight, and then a satisfying conclusion within, say, a couple of weeks.

Agree. OP has an otherwise excellent marriage, and asking her to destroy it by forcing her husband to face up to the sad reality of his mother's personality plus his own financial shortcomings in the anniversary week of his father's death seems a little drastic. She came to the thread unsure as to who was in the wrong - she's now wise to the manipulation and selfishness and standing up to her husband over it. She doesn't owe anyone else her decisions on her life, after all, and she quite rightly needs to consider what she thinks is best for her own life before taking action. Nor has she said she won't do anything suggested - she's just thinking it through which is entirely sensible, given how new this perspective on events is to her.

hollyisalovelyname · 27/10/2013 14:50

Good points Doctrine

CookieDoughKid · 27/10/2013 14:53

Yes, it will take time for op to resolve things. Credit to you for taking this on. I didn't realise you were only months in and not years so that does change things for you.

However, I'm a true believer in taking a hard line immediately. You offer an inch and people will take a mile if they could. Still, there are lots of excellent advice here! Its great to have mumsnet!!

HeartsTrumpDiamonds · 27/10/2013 15:00

Think the OP is doing just fine. She is starting to assert herself. MIL has years of practice playing the victim.

RenterNomad · 27/10/2013 16:15

YY to poor shil's having to live this in real time!

Sadnworried · 27/10/2013 20:52

Another Judge Judy fan here - I'd like this resolved in 30mins.
Lots of excellent advice OP, plus, I think you see her clearly as your DH does not. I hope you get your 15K back.
What a PITA this is when your little family should be bonding - take all the mat leave you can.

CanucksoontobeinLondon · 28/10/2013 05:29

I agree that the OP is doing well. Next step is for DH to sell one or both cars to fund mat leave. But she is moving forward

ModernToss · 28/10/2013 07:03

Your response to the request for a gardener was perfect, and you should be using that like a broken record - 'Too big/difficult/labour-intensive? You need a smaller house.'

Someone upthread had it absolutely right: given that this is all about keeping up appearances for your MIL, you (she) should position a move as a sensible option rather than one born of necessity. She can tell her friends it was her idea to move to a lovely small flat or whatever, as she wanted somewhere easier to maintain.

TheIggorcist · 28/10/2013 07:41

One reason for wanting this to move forward though (rather than for our entertainment or whatever) is that every month that passes makes it less likely the amount borrowed will ever be returned. Also the mil's debts will be ever-increasing.

pippop1 · 28/10/2013 15:43

I think the thing that MIL is scared of is loosing face. If only one of her friends or someone who's opinion she cares about could "hear" that you have to go back to work soon as she hasn't returned the money that she borrowed....

Going to any events where such a person might be? Any relatives that you are friendly with that you could phone for a chat and drop it into the conversation?

Original poster
shil0846 · 28/10/2013 21:06

I really appreciate all the advice I've received on here. It's the first time I've posted a problem on mumsnet and I'm overwhelmed by how supportive everyone has been.

I've tried the tactic of reducing contact with my MIL, but she doesn't seem to care particularly, certainly she's not texting every day to ask how I / DS are. I responded to her text re the hair and nails saying "Lucky you. I'm saving up to get my hair done before BIL's wedding" [which is in December].

She clearly got the hint as she responded: "It was only £25". We haven't been in contact since, so she's clearly feeling that I have spoilt her fun.

I mentioned it to DH but he got really defensive. Basically he got really angry and said that he doesn't like spending time with me at the moment because I keep nagging about this. He also said that I was the one who agreed to lend the money in the first place (which is partially true, we agreed together) and that I should have it out with his mother. We ended up having a huge row and another weekend was ruined.

Part of the problem is that we've agreed that I'm going to take my full maternity leave and use our deposit money and just be really frugal. My DH has also agreed to take out a loan if that doesn't cover it. He seems to think that this has solved the issue in the short term and now won't engage with getting his mother to repay the loan. However I'm afraid Im going to become really bitter and twisted if I feel my dS is going without and we're getting into debt, whilst she's squandering my money on her appearance.

I'm due to take DS to visit my MIL at the end of November. I was going to cancel, but actually I want to speak to her face to face with her grandson there, and to point out how difficult she is making our lives and that her grandson will suffer. That way she'll have nowhere to hide. I'm also intending to take some of her antiques back to London with us. I'm painfully conscious that this is moving slowly, but ultimately I feel that having a loving father is more important for my son than having £15,000 and I don't want to ruin my marriage over this. I've got DH to "agree" that we're not taking on her mortgage and that I'm taking full maternity, so there have been some positive developments since my first post.

Re Christmas, we're planning to stay with my MIL as she's got room for all the family whilst there's no room for visitors at our flat. That is if we're still on speaking terms...

OP posts:
Mellowandfruitful · 28/10/2013 21:24

I can see you have really tried, OP. How difficult this must be for you.

I have to say, I am deeply unimpressed with your husband trying to push this onto you, both in trying to make you the villain for 'nagging' (well, it's easy to be light hearted and smiley when you have no money worries) and in suggesting you speak to his mother instead of him. It suggests he is more willing to think of himself and his mother as a team than the two of you. I also don't think it's good that he would rather take out another loan than sell his classic car.

However, I totally take your point about trying to deal with this without the marriage crumbling. It's going to be a long game. At least you know your maternity leave is covered somehow. I would work on being calm but cool about the money stuff with your husband. I would also gather if detailed information about your own household expenses. You need to b able to notice if any, let's say, unexpected new payments appeared on a statement, and you also need to be on top of the numbers to say 'no, we can't afford that because of X, Y and Z' if any suggestions are made.

RandomMess · 28/10/2013 21:30

Jeez I feel so sad for you Shil.

I found out my dh wasn't my supportive best friend anymore a few years ago and it devasted me and in some ways the future of our marriage is still uncertain. That discovery that my marriage wasn't what I thought it was was horrendous, so deeply painful - I am imagining that you are feeling something similar having discovered your dh has very odd priorities in his life Sad

Do you think you could get your dh to go to relationship counselling because the huge issue is always going to be there that he doesn not prioritise you and your ds as his family...

ChasedByZombees · 28/10/2013 21:35

Hmm, you may have agreed the loan, but you also agreed the repayment schedule. I think your plan to have it out with MIL is a good one - I would point out this:

my dS is going without and we're getting into debt, whilst she's squandering my money on her appearance.

Because that is so outrageous.

I don't know if you're planning to stay overnight but I would keep your return options open (so an open return rather than a fixed train). You may want to leave early...

cocoleBOO · 28/10/2013 21:38

DH has ytoldou to have it out with MIL so you should. Remind him he said it if he makes a fuss.

It's a terrible state of affairs to be honest. Its ok for us to be sitting our computers telling you what to do, we're not having to have the discussion/row face to face.

RandomMess · 28/10/2013 21:43

In fact if you decide to have that conversation please start it with "Dh has told me to have this out with you..."

TheDoctrineOfAnyFucker · 28/10/2013 21:58

Good opener, RM!

perfectstorm · 28/10/2013 21:59

He also said that I was the one who agreed to lend the money in the first place (which is partially true, we agreed together) and that I should have it out with his mother.

Cheeky sod. He's also the one who was still insisting you underwrote her mortgage a week ago and arguing that this is just DIL/MIL angst. But helpful, in a way, because he's just given you permission to tackle her on this.

Any chance you can make an appointment with a decent financial planner in a neighbouring town (so she can't wail at the humiliation) in the November visit? Force her to sit down and go through her situation where she can't evade or derail?

I think you're doing really well in a horrible, horrible situation solely created because you have a good heart and trusted your DH's family to do the right thing. You are the victim in this and their trying to paint you as the bad guy is adding severe insult to great injury.

perfectstorm · 28/10/2013 22:00

And ooh, I like RM's opener!

perfectstorm · 28/10/2013 22:01

It's a terrible state of affairs to be honest. Its ok for us to be sitting our computers telling you what to do, we're not having to have the discussion/row face to face.

Yes, this. It's so easy to see what others should do. It's so hard when your own most complex and intimate relationships are involved and it isn't just pixels on a screen.

NettleTea · 28/10/2013 22:07

oooh he is so cowardly, making YOU have it out with her.....

thank god you seem to be fiesty enough to take her on. And angry enough when considering this is her grandson she is effectively stealing from. can you arrange an auctioneer to visit and actually take away stuff while you are there, to cover the £15 grand plus interest.

CookieDoughKid · 28/10/2013 22:13

Sounds like your dH doesn't want to take any heat or blame. Why isn't your dh fighting your corner more? He should be shielding you from any mil flak.

TheDoctrineOfAnyFucker · 28/10/2013 22:19

Exactly, ChasedBy - OP agreed with DH to make a 3 month, short term loan to MIL and MIL agreed to sell antiques to repay it if needed.

So who is going back on the agreement? That would be MIL...

RandomMess · 28/10/2013 22:29

Would the emotional blackmail work on MIL "I am so hurt that you haven't kept to your agreement of repaying within 3 months", "I am devesatated that you would get us to spend money on that car when we are struggling to afford to eat", "I am so embarrassed we can't buy BIL the wedding gift we wanted to because you haven't repaid the loan"???

DustBunnyFarmer · 28/10/2013 22:34

I also don't think it's good that he would rather take out another loan than sell his classic car.

This is very worrying. More debt is not the answer. Getting rid of money pit drains on your income - TWO classic cars for fucks sake! - is where the pruning should start. That and m