Money and MIL - advice needed (sorry it is quite long)

[shil0846]

This is more about my mother-in-law, however it is starting to affect my relationship with my husband and I would really appreciate some advice.

My father-in-law died last year leaving a lot of debt, but also a lot of valuable art work. My MIL also had a £15k credit card bill on which she was paying masses of interest. When she was widowed, she couldn't afford to keep paying the interest and was desperate. We therefore paid for the funeral and also took £15k out of our mortgage to lend it to her for 3 months to give her time to sell some of the art work. We are paying 4% interest on this.

11 months later she hasn't sold anything. I have sent pictures of items to auction houses to get them valued, but when I tell her what they say she tuts and says she paid far more than that and she wouldn't sell for such a low price.

The added complication is that I had a baby 6 months ago and we need the money back to buy a bigger place (we're in a tiny flat) and to fund my maternity leave. My MIL is aware of this (I have told her as plainly as I can without upsetting her). Her reaction is to apologize and say that she is ruining everything...yet she just doesn't sell anything. Most recently when I raise it she's started telling me how lucky I am to have had all this time with my DS, as she went back to work when my husband was 4 months old.

I generally have a good relationship with my MIL, but am starting to resent the fact that my family is suffering because we paid her credit card bill. I also feel duped. My husband gets really defensive when I mention it and reminds me that she's lost her husband and he's lost his father. So we end up arguing.

I know that the grief is still raw and suspect she doesn't want to part with any possessions she bought with her late husband, but I'm desperate to spend longer with my DS and could do so if she would only pay us back.

Any advice would be much appreciated.

Xx

I now predict a spot of reported physical illness/health scare/ similar, aimed at guilting you into meeting her (only hinted at) demands. Stand firm - 'sorry to hear that, MiL, hope you feel better soon. Sounds like an even better idea to look at moving somewhere smaller, if your health isn't do good...'

PS condolences on the anniversary of DFs death - always a sombre day.

Do you ring her, or does she ring you?

Does she ask anything about you as a family - your DS, DH, yourself? Or is she just all about the ££££ and what trinkets she can buy or hold onto?

She sounds rotten to the core.

Is this how she was with her DH when he was alive, she would ask and he would deliver, and end up getting into debt as a result? Since her DH has died she has now transferred this to her son? If so, it isn't grief that is making her behave in this way, it is how she has always behaved and will continue to do so as her son seems to be continuing what his father did. Your MIL needs to understand from her son that this is not going to continue. Cannot believe the cheek of this. How is your DH faring?

I don't really know how things were when my FIL was alive, I didn't pay much attention as I had no idea they were in such a financial mess.

The time we spoke mentioned above, I rang her as it was the anniversary of her husband's death. Yesterday she called me to complain that she had so many bills, including £250 for RAC membership. I told her to check whether she has cover under her bank account (as I do with another break down service) but she said no, she needs RAC as she's always been with them. I asked her how she could afford it, but then (conveniently) her front door bell rang and she had to dash.

She texted me just now to say that she's just had her hair and nails done. It's made me feel pretty cross as I've just cancelled my newspaper subscription to save money; that may not sound like a big deal but being at home it was a real lifeline to the outside world.

Any thoughts on how I can respond to my MIL's text and tell her (without being too rude or too obvious) to stop spending money she doesn't have?

Just that: "MIL, you really need to stop spending money you don't have: hair, nails, gardener. We cannot bail you out, in fact we urgently need you to repay the loan."

That's not unkind, it is simple fact.

RAC offer online is £30!!! Now that might not be for existing customers etc but I'm sure I've never paid more than £60 a year and I've been with them ages!

RAC £250!!!! I've been with them ages and it's less then £100. If the price rises, you ring them up, threaten to leave, and oh look they can do it for £60 again.

I don't think your MIL has the slightest idea of the value of money. Quite possibly your FIL didn't either - they seem a bit 'fur coat and no knickers' in their approach.

Eldritch's text is spot on.

RAC cover is even cheaper if you get it via quidco or topcashback.

This will only end when;

1. The family stand up to her (unlikely)
2. She passes away (inevitable)
3. She meets a rich man to take care of her (you never know your luck)

I have read this thread with my jaw dropping. Your MIL really is a piece of work.

I agree with the poster who said 'broken record' technique. Every phone call, email, text, interaction, re-iterate: 'We need you to pay back the money you owe us, when are you going to do that?'

How about a text pointing out you have just cancelled yr newspaper & other money saving efforts. Then, why are you still spending money on nails when you have debts. Honestly, everyone needs to stop enabling this woman. She is on another planet! So angry for you...

She's truly taking the piss.

What does your DH say about the hair, nails, gardener, RAC, etc.?

Have you taken the 50/50 ownership further?

Just ask whether any of what she owns (a picture for exaple) is going to be for you. And if she says yes, then ask whether you can have it now. And then sell it!
And also refuse to work, I did that in very similar circumstances.

Every SINGLE response and interaction should begin with:

'We need the £x amount we loaned you in good faith which I'm sure you would not dispute - you agreed to pay back. Without this, you are depriving your grandchildren of their welfare and we are all suffering. ...

Ending with... Until you HANDOVER X/Y/X, we are unable to continue dialogue. We hope you understand our position which was caused by you. We are honourable.
I hope you are honourable too. Please restore our faith by doing XYZ on this date XYZ.'

I'd go one step A LOT further and drag FIL from the grave and say also

'FIL would be extremely upset if he knew his grandchildren were being deprived by your inactions. Please prove us wrong by handing over XYZ on this date XYZ.'

-------------------

In the culture I am from, this would be extremely loss of face and we would not hesitate to take very strong action. It's one thing being UNABLE to pay up. It's quite another, having the means to pay up but refusing to do so.'

By you REFUSING to enter into dialogue until she DOES XYZ by this date, you are demonstrating how unacceptable her behaviour is.

Repeat it every single time and repeat the same to every single family member who chooses to take her side.

You need to be very very obvious OP. Anything less, is open to interpretation and the assumption it is still ok for MIL not to pay up.

Good luck
(btw - I have been where you are, and got my money back - quite quickly actually).

Did she always used to discuss boast about money with you, or is she testing your limits?

She's dangling it in front of your nose. Cheeky pig that she is.

I really agree with the recent point chunder made - if MIL redirected her direct debits then she could have made a dent in the £££ she owes you.

It just smacks that all she seems to think about is: how much things cost, what things need bought, money makes her world go round. She couldn't give a stuff about her own DC or your DC, which is really sad.

This is an amazing woman. I think the word is narcissist - it's all about ME!
Have you done anything about the car? BTW cars are NOT family. Or 'like' either.

Just a thought, but maybe it's the thought of telling all her friends that she's downsizing is something she can't face - if you can turn it into language that implies it's a sideways move she might be a bit more willing, eg "I'm moving to a charming apartment in town, so much more convenient, don't you think, and of course I'm taking just a few of my most precious artworks."?

Good luck with the manipulative leech

Or even "most of my precious artworks, to remind me of dear FIL"

Shil, you can't tell her what to do. She is a spendthrift. She doesn't really care. Don't make the mistake of assuming she needs to be shown the way and wants to be just like you- frugal. She doesn't. She thinks you are a fool, but luckily for her, one with money.

Your dh needs to be the one to do it. Has he mentally written off the 15k? What happened about the car, mechanic, etc? What about your maternity?

If you are cancelling newspapers and she is texting about hair and nails - I would be incandescent with rage, so you are being very accomadating.

I would direct my fury at dh though and stop letting him behave as though she is the queen bee and has to be protected and cocooned from life whilst you consider your next money saving move of maybe no milk in your tea.

By stop letting him, I mean be extremely frosty in all areas, do the 50/50 thing on the flat or get it valued for sale, decide about maternity leave, open your own savings accounts and use the joint account purely for bills. Its like he has an OW he has to keep in furs and jewels or something. Only its his mum.

Lavenderhoney It's funny you said Its like he has an OW he has to keep in furs and jewels or something. Only its his mum. I was thinking yesterday when reading the latest, that she sounds like Fur coat and no knickers type of person (as my nan would say). As in it is all about how she appears to the outside world.

The most important thing to her is a Nice house, with a nice tidy garden. And she looks her best at all times.

Can you email her?

If so I'd be tempted to reply via email to her and dh saying how upset you are that she is spending money on x y z when you can't afford a b c and are having to return to work early because she has not returned the £15k due x months ago yet.

Hi OP. Just a thought: have you checked the Land Registry to make sure there are no hidden charges over MILs house? It's £3 for an electronic copy of the proprietship register. That shows who owns the property and any charges. A full official copy is £7.