Money and MIL - advice needed (sorry it is quite long)

[shil0846]

This is more about my mother-in-law, however it is starting to affect my relationship with my husband and I would really appreciate some advice.

My father-in-law died last year leaving a lot of debt, but also a lot of valuable art work. My MIL also had a £15k credit card bill on which she was paying masses of interest. When she was widowed, she couldn't afford to keep paying the interest and was desperate. We therefore paid for the funeral and also took £15k out of our mortgage to lend it to her for 3 months to give her time to sell some of the art work. We are paying 4% interest on this.

11 months later she hasn't sold anything. I have sent pictures of items to auction houses to get them valued, but when I tell her what they say she tuts and says she paid far more than that and she wouldn't sell for such a low price.

The added complication is that I had a baby 6 months ago and we need the money back to buy a bigger place (we're in a tiny flat) and to fund my maternity leave. My MIL is aware of this (I have told her as plainly as I can without upsetting her). Her reaction is to apologize and say that she is ruining everything...yet she just doesn't sell anything. Most recently when I raise it she's started telling me how lucky I am to have had all this time with my DS, as she went back to work when my husband was 4 months old.

I generally have a good relationship with my MIL, but am starting to resent the fact that my family is suffering because we paid her credit card bill. I also feel duped. My husband gets really defensive when I mention it and reminds me that she's lost her husband and he's lost his father. So we end up arguing.

I know that the grief is still raw and suspect she doesn't want to part with any possessions she bought with her late husband, but I'm desperate to spend longer with my DS and could do so if she would only pay us back.

Any advice would be much appreciated.

Xx

Good grief. This thread is...just incredible.

Heart goes out to you, op. It sounds as if your MIL and DH are both up to the neck in denial that they just don't have as much money as they think they do. And your DH has an absolutely understandable and under other circumstances, commendable sense of love and duty prompting him to protect and care for his aged, bereaved mother who is rubbish with money.

However.

Yeah. Fuck that.

You are doing a great job, from the sound of it, at making clear to both of them that the position is untenable and you are no longer willing to accommodate your MIL's lifestyle choices at such great cost to yourself and your DS. Terrible as it is that this is causing such difficulties between your DH yourself...it's actually the best thing, because it's frankly the only way you have any chance of coming out of this with your own family intact, and in something resembling the financial health you deserve.

Good luck! And keep us updated on progress! So much support here for you.

I would ask your husband what his answer would have been if, one year ago, his mother had come to him, explained that she needed £15K and why, and said that in view of the vast amounts of money she and FIL had lavished on his education, she felt that it would be an appropriate gesture for him to remortgage and give her the money.

I would keep the focus on your DS and his future. For example, ask how he is going to explain to DS why there is no holiday or no college fund etc because the money has been spent bailing out MIL yet again.

Wow, she is one clever lady.

I think you have to accept certain things and deal with them on a factual basis.

1. Your husband is not capable of sorting this out, for whatever reason.
2. You and your dh will have to take on the sale of the items without consulting her as she won't do it.
3. It's possible that the best outcome for you is that you go back to work and save as much as you can in an account that your husband has no access to. He clearly can't be trusted with joint money.

Not a proper solution I'm afraid but I can't see what else you can do.

Wow, just read through this thread. Your MIL is a real piece of work.
I think you could take further steps to protect yourself if you and DH do end up splitting over this. I agree with other posters who have said that even if you manage to stay together for several years down the line, if DH keeps enabling your MIL to wreck your financial security it is likely you will split eventually. Arguments about money are after all one of the commonest factors in relationship breakdown.
The problem is that the debts he has taken on for mil may well still be considered joint marital debts even if you have separated your finances. There will also be less in way of actual assets as he will have spent the money on MIL. Worse still, any savings you have accumulated will still be joint marital assets despite them being in your sole name.

I'm not a lawyer but I have heard that you can draw up a prenup type agreement even if you are already married. Perhaps this something you can look into to see if your share can be further protected? You'd get some protection as DS would need to be provided for but it might be possible to have some extra security about it. If he puts his wife second to his mother then how much lower in his priorities will his ex-wife be, especially with MIL egging him on.
The side benefit would be that it would be another way to demonstrate to DH exactly how serious the situation is.

OP have you got someone you can trust eg parents or siblings who could open an account for you to put money into. Meaning it would not be considered a joint marital asset should you split up?

Need to look carefully at tax implications of doing that, dimsum - both while the account is running, and as and when the holder 'gifts' what could be a large sum of money back to OP.

"I wanted to change the ownership of our flat so that we each own 50% (rather than the survivor automatically inheriting) and that I'm changing my will so I can leave my share plus any savings to our DS."

This is a very sensible step considering that your husband has proved to you that he has more regard for his mums welfare than the welfare of his wife and child. Everything he has done, seem to support this.

Dont back down on this!

He rather see you stressed over money than his mum, and if you were to pass before him, I am sure more money would go his mums way rather than secure his childs future.

I would also like to emphasize what I have said all along. Leave him. This man does not love you. Not in the way a husband should at least.

Changing the ownership of the flat may be pointless, if you are breaking up, you will get your share when you sell and this you can use to reinvest in another property for yourself and your child.

Nothing much to report as I have backed off as it's the 1st anniversary of my FIL's death.

I did speak to my MIl on the phone and, out of the blue, she told me she would have to get a gardener as she couldn't manage her garden on her own. I did wonder if she was hinting as we paid for a gardener for them last year whilst my FIL was ill as my MIL was so busy caring for him, and we wanted to remove one source of stress.

I didn't offer (obviously) and, after a pause, she then said that her neighbours had noticed the state of her garden and told her that her sons didn't do enough to help her! Somehow I doubt that her neighbours suggested that her sons undertake a 400 mile round trip just to mow her lawn and trim her trees.

I didnt rise to it and said perhaps it is time to consider moving somewhere with a smaller more manageable garden if she's finding it too difficult, it would be easier to cope. She just said "mmmm" in an absent minded way and very quickly changed the subject.

I now need to have a conversation with my husband to make it clear that we are not paying for her gardener.

at the blatant fishing for you to take responsibility for her garden as well!! This is a woman who knows you have had to sell jewellery just to make ends meet, solely due to her not wishing to repay you the money she owes you. Un-fucking-believable. I suggest that any gardening DH undertakes on her behalf involve a patio.

She is on another planet!

I agree about the patio.

Under the patio might be a good start

I was wondering how things were going for you. Obviously still has no intention of taking financial responsibility for herself then.

Gosh. Entitled is the word.

Are there any v posh sheltered housing schemes nearby? Something in a converted mansion might appeal to her inner Tory?

She might be persuaded to move if there are lots of similarly minded people around, which I assume there would be. Of course there simply wouldn't be room for the art work so it would have to be sold.....

I have a feeling that driving her down the drive of a stately home type of place might just work.

Flippin' cheek. Good answer though, OP. Well done you.

I imagine that won't be the last you hear about her needing a gardener

Blimey, how manipulative. And more evidence of how crap or easy come easy go she is with money.

You dealt with it well by saying if she can't cope she could move. Point out that before she hires a gardener she needs to repay your £15,000!

I am amazed she called you and asked for money again- when you are being kind and not reminding her or dh for a week or so? She is such a chancer! Was she hoping you would feel sorry for her and stump up? What a time to call and talk about gardening- she is very manipulative.

As if you care what the neighbours think! I doubt she mentioned the money/ car you are paying for to the neighbour whilst agreeing she gets no help. She can use her charity money- oops no, that's for the classic car.

What a brilliant response though:) and she can pay off all her debts at the same time. Plus there won't be room for a classic car, so you can get rid of that as well.

I wonder what she will do now. Your response probably wasnt expected, so now its out there, and she has just admitted she can't cope, she will have to think up something else!

You're a saint. An absolute bloody saint. And separating finances, meeting with a financial advisor with your DH to discuss her and your own situations, and marital counselling is I think fairly imperative once the anniversary has passed.

Just staggering levels of selfishness. Doesn't compute. Most of us would live on gruel to help our children, surely.

Unf^cking-believable. This thread gets worse everytime I come back to it from the demands of your MIL. Op - you really are a patient saint. I would be like a BROKEN record to your MIL:

WHEN you gonna pay up?
WHEN you gonna pay up?
WHEN you gonna pay up?
WHEN you gonna pay up?? ..................

OP, we are all rooting for you.
When she rings, imagine us all standing firmly behind you. Keep strong! Xx

holy shit!

She knows what she has done! How long are you going to dance to her merry tune? How long are you going to let DH put her first?

I would be refusing to talk to her now.

Do not go back to work early because of her.This is not going to be resolved until Dh puts his foot down - what will it take, you leaving to push his hand. How very fucking dare she! I have the rage for you!!

I agree with whoever said she is on another fucking planet.

Somehow this last piece of fishing has just made her greed and duplicity so OBVIOUS. I wonder if this degree of crassness might even penetrate through your husband's shell.