Money and MIL - advice needed (sorry it is quite long)

[shil0846]

This is more about my mother-in-law, however it is starting to affect my relationship with my husband and I would really appreciate some advice.

My father-in-law died last year leaving a lot of debt, but also a lot of valuable art work. My MIL also had a £15k credit card bill on which she was paying masses of interest. When she was widowed, she couldn't afford to keep paying the interest and was desperate. We therefore paid for the funeral and also took £15k out of our mortgage to lend it to her for 3 months to give her time to sell some of the art work. We are paying 4% interest on this.

11 months later she hasn't sold anything. I have sent pictures of items to auction houses to get them valued, but when I tell her what they say she tuts and says she paid far more than that and she wouldn't sell for such a low price.

The added complication is that I had a baby 6 months ago and we need the money back to buy a bigger place (we're in a tiny flat) and to fund my maternity leave. My MIL is aware of this (I have told her as plainly as I can without upsetting her). Her reaction is to apologize and say that she is ruining everything...yet she just doesn't sell anything. Most recently when I raise it she's started telling me how lucky I am to have had all this time with my DS, as she went back to work when my husband was 4 months old.

I generally have a good relationship with my MIL, but am starting to resent the fact that my family is suffering because we paid her credit card bill. I also feel duped. My husband gets really defensive when I mention it and reminds me that she's lost her husband and he's lost his father. So we end up arguing.

I know that the grief is still raw and suspect she doesn't want to part with any possessions she bought with her late husband, but I'm desperate to spend longer with my DS and could do so if she would only pay us back.

Any advice would be much appreciated.

Xx

if she has literally just got out of 15k debt with your help and has inherited more assets than money, and still is flashing the cash (to the Tory party )

are you not concerned she will just be racking up more debt

This just gets worse, I would sell the car pronto!

Yep, I would be ringing back and telling her that she can take it out of the £15k plus interest she owes you.

i don't know how you are putting up with all this but i really think it is time for a serious once and for all conversation with your dh. he is obviously just like his mother and does not care they that are both wasting and spending money on nothing or not paying back what should be. i would be moving all my money and not paying a single thing for him and get a clear plan from him as to how he is going to tackle things. he is either stupid or really thinks you are.

'My husband refuses to sell it as he's known it since he was little and says "it is like family" and it would apparently break his mother's heart (it's worth approx £8,000).

When I called earlier my MIL was busy serving homemade scones to the mechanic who had been out to sort out the brakes. She asked me to tell my husband he needed to send the mechanic £400. £400 for a car I didn't want and we don't use, I am in despair at the money my DH's family wastes.'

You do realise you are married to a dicksmack, don't you? I wouldn't cut my leave for this tool and his bitch mother.

I am a bit shocked at this - they gave you a car you didn't want, presumably drove it about and now it is rotting away in a garage, and you are expected to pay to keep it on the road! Who is driving it and who is insured for it?

Now, you want to sell it. But that money is wedding money, not loan money. Otherwise she would have sold it when she originally owed the 15k you stumped up. So if it does sell you will be gifting her whatever it goes for, if you use it to offset the loan. She's a peach isn't she?

I wouldn't be giving her the 400. I would instead be asking why she arranged a mechanic when she and you have no money. Tell her the mechanic will have to get in line as you have no money. Maybe she can stop paying the charity box and pay the mechanic.

Is she driving it about? That's unbelievable. And if you sell your car, she will want another one, won't she, which of course you will pay for out of the proceeds as she must have a car, a nice new one I expect and she has no money.

You've been led up the garden path with the car as well.

You dh- the car is like family! Yeah, his dm, costing a fortune to run. I don't understand his attitude at all. Things are not as important as you and your ds living the best way you can. I find it hard to process that he prioritieses an old car he doesn't see nor drive above you and your ds.

Is the car distracting you again? The old diversion techniques your mil is so fond of? Briskly say " yes, we will sell that car you gave us, can't afford it. Now where's our 15k?"

Please don't cut your leave short, whatever you do. Take your full leave as planned - this precious time with your baby does not come again. In this situation you are entirely reasonable to put the onus on to your DH to work out how to support it.

Why are you talking to her...she's ripped you off!

All conversations with her need to stArt with...ok what stage are you at with the debt repayment...

I think your mil is trying to financially manipulate you into moving in with her. I know she's 200 miles away but her grasp on reality is such that its surely a 'short commute' to London and she would love to see more of the grandkids wouldn't she? And she has so much room.

p.s. know how hopeless some dh's are in standing up to their mothers so big sympathies, op. At least you are trying to look after your children's future.

p.p.s. don't bank on getting more in her will to make up for what she's taken as your bil 'needs it more'.

Hi shil0846 I've been following your thread and think you're in a really difficult situation. Your mil does sound as if she's never dealt with the money and doesn't understand the impact its having on you - but also she doesn't want to understand. Added to this she probably thinks you're exaggerating your situation as your husband may be giving her the impression its fine (this could be an image thing - a real man can provide for his family, and he doesn't want to lose face in front of his mother, or he may well believe everything will be fine because he lives like her too and it's always fine in the end).

I think if you keep niggling you will ruin your marriage, which may not be what you want, and it will be hard to undo the damage. It will also make you look like all you care about is the money, which I'm sure is not the case, you probably just feel conned. I'm really don't think either your mil or your husband are behaving well, but they are behaving as they always have done and lots of people live like this.

I think all you can do is protect yourself going forward, you have a great reason never to lend her money again, so this situation shouldn't occur. When the mortgage comes up you just need to say no to your husband - that you found this so stressful it affected the way you feel about mil and don't think you should get involved in her finances other than offering advice.

With respect to the £15,000, I would sit down with your husband and find out the following (you may already know some of this):
Does he expect her to repay any or all of the money?
If he does - what timescales does he have in mind?
And how does he think she is going to raise the money? Ask for specifics here - which items are going to be auctioned? (he may not know this - if he doesn't would he be prepared to discuss it with his mother?)
Does he think she will do this off her own back or does he think he'll need to encourage/help her?
Is he expecting her to pay interest?
Does he realise how much the interest is costing? (He might not realise)

They might sound obvious questions, but once you have the answers to those you have the basis of a plan. At the moment he is ignoring the problem as he has no sense of urgency.

With respect to the car I'd do something similar - put the annual costs down on paper - tax, insurance, maintenance etc. Does he still have his old car too? Does that mean you are running a family car and two classic cars? It is an extravagance can he choose which classic car means most to him and get rid of the other? Does he realise how much the car actually costs you - he might not as its probably paid in dribs and drabs.

With someone so blase about money I would do the family budgeting, I'd set up a spreadsheet and put everything in it - it gives you control and helps take some of the emotion out of the situation when you discuss it as you're dealing with facts.

Sorry this is so long!

What's stopping you from selling this car? Put an ad out/ do eBay/ get a cash for car quote...whatever. Just get rid as keeping it is costing you. FFS ..you'd save money giving it away for free.

Just do it. I wouldn't even entertain a conversation!!!

That car IS just like one of the family ... His mum!
Sits there costing you money

I just get more and more as this information comes to light.

Your dh is a huge problem in this he is not prepared for his mum to be upset, quite happy for you to be devasted and be penniless so long as his mum his happy - can you really not see this?

who the fuck is driving the car????

OP My DH was owed about £6k from an ex when I met him. And that money was money he had used on credit cards for her, for her whims and lifestyle and "needed" items. He was a doormat and she used him! When we met, it was evident he had not a pot to piss in and was servicing her debts. Idiot!

It took quite alot of pressure from me, and lots of frank coversations with scary paperwork to make him get a plan in place for her to PAY IT BACK. It should be said that was a "high flyer" in finance and whilst she had an expensive lifestyle, she could pay it back. He got her to see sense, she paid it back (£300/m) with a lump sum of £1k at the beginning to show good faith.

It can be done, do not give up, apply the "broken record" technique to both of them. SELL THE BLOODY CAR. And I should add that car should be money in an ISA for you, not to pay off any of the £15k.

Honestly, my mind boggles at this whole FARCE!

also - her creating a tangent argument to draw you off your line is a classic defence. next time she nit-picks your arguments refuse to be drawn in. totally ignore that sentence that's trying to draw you into a different argument. she's clearly very skilled at that.

have your argument clearly written down in front of you and keep going. don't let her side-track you.

and i agree that your dh is a huge part of the problem.

Sorry OP if I sound like a bulldozer but since you've not had much progress in a year .. Action would speak louder than words with your family.

As I read into this, this has brought to surface real issues in your marriage and I wish you both the best. Its less about your mil but a whole lot more about your dH. You have a massive imbalance of respect and control heavily not in your favour. It doesn't sound solid to me.

If you'd rather not disrupt the status quo than fine, accept your continued losses. However, if you really want to deal with the real issues (money being a by product, not the cause here. Its your dh and mil toxic attitudes and behavior). I'd be questioning the meaning of your marriage.

I can't believe this car thing. I'm afraid your DH needs a serious reality check about money. He's grown up learning profligacy as normal and he will not be able to adjust this mindset without effort.

Your DH is as bad as his mother.

He has 2 'classic' he can not afford. And hell would freeze over before he sent £400 to her mechanic. If he insisted then I think he would be following with all his belongings along with him.

If she/they have done Equity Release on their house how much of the house have they given away. As this type of transaction normally means that they have borrowed £15k (for argument sake) but signed over a % of the property to the company concerned.

Your MIL and husband regard a car as part of the family, but not your son? They won't sell the car, but in order to keep it/a bunch of antiques/a house nobody can afford and one heavily indebted old lady lives in, your baby is expected to enter fulltime childcare very much earlier than the period the state regards as reasonable.

The law of the land shows more concern about your child's infancy than his father or grandmother. Who are fretting about cars, houses and antiques.

I'm sorry, but that boggles the bloody mind.

Who's driving the car about - and if the answer is nobody get it SORNED at the DVLA and forget about it. But you could, when the mechanic asks for payment, tell him you don't have the money at the mo and how much does he think the car is worth?

My MIL has her own car, so it isn't driven much. It just sits in the garage, rusting and requiring expensive maintenance. She just takes it out to give it a run now and then.

I agree that my DH could do [a lot] more, but I don't want this to damage our marriage. Apart from these issues with his sodding mother, we love each other and are very happy. Also, my DS needs his father so leaving him over this is not an option.

I'm not going to speak to my MIL for a while, as I just get so upset and angry when I do. Before I thought she was just upset and confused and that, ultimately if I was blunt and told her of the issues the loan is causing, she would repay. Now I have told her explicitly that her debt is (1) causing problems in our marriage; (2) stopping us moving; and (3) means I have to go back to work earlier and leave my DS, yet still she does nothing. I feel so let down and disappointed in her. It seems she's selfish enough to corrode my marriage, keep us in a tiny flat and take my maternity leave, all for the sake of keeping inanimate objects. I can't see how she can sleep at night.

I'm going to speak to my BIL to see if he can help to talk to her. However I'm not sure I completely trust him either. He told us that he had no money to help with the £5000 funeral costs for his father, and then went out and bought his girlfriend an expensive engagement ring a month later. It feels like everyone in my DH's family has their own agenda and we're left to mop up the mess.

Oh dear. I commented really early on that you should give her a few weeks/months to get used to the idea of selling the pictures and then apply some pressure but so much has come out since then. Don't involve your BIL - he will either be as manipulated as your husband or not want to get hooked up in this mess. I agree that it's not a divorce/separation issue but you husband does have to shoulder the burden here and sort out the financial mess that he and his feckless mother have got you into.

It will be too easy for your MIL to demonise you as the awful outsider who doesn't understand how these private family matters work. Get your husband to resolve these by convincing his mother that she does actually owe you the money, it wasn't a gift, that renewing her mortgage is a no-go and that the car needs to be sold (along with her house and its artworks).

STEP BACK.

I've been following your thread but not commented as other posters said what I would have.

I understand you do not want to ltb but you do need to ruffle feathers and have a serious conversation with DH.

Leaving aside the £15K for a moment , if the car was a gift to you both and you didn't want or need it then to me it seems obvious to sell it in order to have the funds to support you both so that you do not have to give up your maternity leave.

If DH doesn't like this suggestion then the question needs to be asked "which is more important - DS having his mum in these early months or a car sat in a garage hundreds of miles away?"

After you have "secured" your maternity leave in this way you can then focus on the 15k going forward.

Plus with childcare costs will you be hugely better off returning to work early? Tightening belts may mean its not too bad really to stay off as you wanted to.

Wouldn't it be better, in any case, for a classic car to be owned by someone who has the time and money to cherish it and use it, take it out to be admired, take it to rallies etc, rather than sit unnoticed in a garage? Not wishing to join your DHs family and anthropomorphise it, but the argument that it could be in a better home, might work for DH.