Money and MIL - advice needed (sorry it is quite long)

[shil0846]

This is more about my mother-in-law, however it is starting to affect my relationship with my husband and I would really appreciate some advice.

My father-in-law died last year leaving a lot of debt, but also a lot of valuable art work. My MIL also had a £15k credit card bill on which she was paying masses of interest. When she was widowed, she couldn't afford to keep paying the interest and was desperate. We therefore paid for the funeral and also took £15k out of our mortgage to lend it to her for 3 months to give her time to sell some of the art work. We are paying 4% interest on this.

11 months later she hasn't sold anything. I have sent pictures of items to auction houses to get them valued, but when I tell her what they say she tuts and says she paid far more than that and she wouldn't sell for such a low price.

The added complication is that I had a baby 6 months ago and we need the money back to buy a bigger place (we're in a tiny flat) and to fund my maternity leave. My MIL is aware of this (I have told her as plainly as I can without upsetting her). Her reaction is to apologize and say that she is ruining everything...yet she just doesn't sell anything. Most recently when I raise it she's started telling me how lucky I am to have had all this time with my DS, as she went back to work when my husband was 4 months old.

I generally have a good relationship with my MIL, but am starting to resent the fact that my family is suffering because we paid her credit card bill. I also feel duped. My husband gets really defensive when I mention it and reminds me that she's lost her husband and he's lost his father. So we end up arguing.

I know that the grief is still raw and suspect she doesn't want to part with any possessions she bought with her late husband, but I'm desperate to spend longer with my DS and could do so if she would only pay us back.

Any advice would be much appreciated.

Xx

She does not want to sell anything. But she must be made to understand that she owes you £15K and this money has got to be paid back and you need it now. She has had plenty of time. So she makes arrangements for the loan to be repaid whether that means her taking out a loan or whatever. That's up to her. I'd absolutely having nothing whatsoever to do with her re-mortgage. But it is difficult when a bereavement is involved. But you shouldn't have to go back to work early just because she owes you the 15K

we have a classic car that costs a fortune to keep on the road. But its only a 2 seater, so since the ds's came along we have kept it permenantly off road in a friend's secure garage.

It costs us nothing. We don't insure it because its not on the road and to get it insured, we would have to have it MOT'd etc. So each year we fill in the SORN form to declare that it is kept OFF ROAD.

No tax, no mot, no insurance, although dp does maintain it and turn the engine over himself once a month or so, and keeps tyres pumped up etc.

If he won't sell the car then the very least you need to do is the same as us. She does not NEED to take it out for a spin every now and again, it can stay in the garage and her just turn the engine over.

But, if we were in difficulties my dp would sell it.

Btw the mechanic is probably a rip off merchant too. £400 for brakes? Dp used the same garage for years for mots etc then it closed. We went to a friend of a friend who was in some classic car club. Dp knows about cars and got it in a state to pass its mot. This mechanic failed it saying a part had to be replaced WHICH DP HAD REPLACED THE WEEK BEFORE. The bill was massive but we had to pay it to get the car back.

Some mechanics see classic cars and think the owners have money to burn. Sell it.

Oh and my pils are also in financial mess because they too had a large house that they kept 'releasing the equity' from, ie remortgaging. They expected to sell it and buy something still substantial and in a good area, but smaller. THey have ended up on a scruffy street in a poor area and mil always nagging on at fil for not providing well enough! They used to remortgage just to go on holidays etc, which to us is just bonkers. Unfortunately all this living outside their means seems to have rubbed off on their other son, and daughter so we are always having to listen to them whining about being skint when really its massive mortgages and credit card debt/ car loans that dents their funds.

I agree with others. Get your £15k back and then let the remortgaging thing just come to its own sticky end in 3 years time.

So you are actually going to go back to work early, then?

DH having a classic car 200 miles away which is worth £8k, and how you are considering going back to work early and selling your jewellery.

Something very fucked up about that logic.

He needs a serious serious reality check, as he and his DM seem to be in the same la la land.

You marriage is already damaged by this, op. now, to me , it looks as though you have asked your dh to choose, and he has chosen mil, and his cars. I would struggle to normalise that too, I expect. The reality is stark.

what will you do when your dh wants his dm to come to London fully subsidised by you and him, and spend the weekend with you? Suck it up? Or have another row and do it anyway, in the misguided hope this time there will be a fairy tale ending?

Your dh should be the one talking to bil. If you do, it won't get you anywhere. You will be the one being blamed in the end for upsetting the little old lady. You dh will step in to smooth it over, you will be forced to back down, just like you are now, and everything goes on the same.

Your mil really doesn't care about you. Or your ds. She cares about herself. And if that means destroying the relationship between you all, well, she is comfortable with that. I hope your dh doesn't feel the same way.

I hope you don't give up your maternity op, but if you do, you keep your savings very separate.

If MIL is taking the car out once a month, who is paying for the insurance?

So your DH thinks the car is a more important member of the "family" than you or his child?

Whilst your MIL attaches more value to paintings than the care of her grandchild?

Bizarre....

No more mister niceguy - would be my advice. Your in-laws seem a pretty selfish bunch who are taking the mickey, thinking that you can persuade them to help you is pointless probably. But you can take some action to help, forget about them and sell your jewelry, get a loan from the bank to tide you over and look after yourself, no one else is going to.
Your DH then, might, step up to the plate and support you.

you are letting everyone walk all over you and in the end this Will affect your marriage as you Will resent your dh for choosing his mother over you, which is in effect what he is doing.

you are not telling us what your dh thinks about you returning to work earlier. is that because he doesn't care if you do? he would rather have a car in a garage than his child's mother at home ?

'The car is like family' brought me up short, too!

Does your DH realise that if he doesn't sort his priorities out, he might find you've had enough, and then his real family might become like the car? Living elsewhere, to be paid for and visited occasionally?

My goodness, it's the original white elephant innit? MIL gives you the car, isn't that nice, only the upkeep is crippling and you get no benefit from it whatsoever.

"It feels like everyone in my DH's family has their own agenda and we're left to mop up the mess."

Who's "we"?

YOU (singular) are left to mop up the mess.

Your husband is every bit as untrustworthy and has as much of an agenda here as his mother and brother.

I hear what you're saying about not wanting to leave your DH, but you do need him to understand how deeply unhappy this is making you. Because at the moment he either really doesn't get that at some level, or he does but is more frightened of upsetting his mother than of losing you or damaging your marriage.

Tell him straight out that you are not going back to work early, and that you are going to let him find out a way to make that happen. But happen it will, because your priority is being the caregiver for your DS for as long as you can. Don't be swayed from that.

The plan to pull back from communicating with your MIL is a good one. I would also though just step back from any pandering to her or being complicit in that. Don't pay for any more of her visits to you. Tell your husband you can't agree to that with the loan still outstanding and you are leaving it to him to find a way to broach that with her.

Finally, I don't know how comfortable you feel posting about this, but I would just warn you to be very cautious about how your family money is set up and who can access it. I would think carefully about setting aside some money in your own account so that it can't be used for things you don't agree to. I also think you should say straight out to your husband that your mother should pay the £400 this time (and in fact always, but maybe use the 'this time' phrase for now) for the car since she booked the mechanic and is the only one who uses it.

Could you stop paying that car insurance?

Then your MIL and DH can't drive it (why on earth should she when it is your car) and if they can't drive it, she can't justify getting mechanics in who (over) charge her £400 to fix the brakes. Plus once the car is no longer driven, the rationale for keeping it weakens.

flabbergasted at this....

Who owns the car, well unless there is some proof as to it being given, then the MIL owns it. The v5 or logbook states categorically, this is not proof of ownership.

Secondly, everyone talk about the OP being liable for 50% of the debt etc.

Thats not how it works. if her husband left her and refused to pay, she would be liable for all the debt.

joint and several liability

And she only drives it once a month, do you really believe that, she will be out in it every day, to the coffee mornings and to church on a sunday.....

her house of cards will fall...

Ihope yours does not.

This thread is making me annoyed, and it's not even my family. Heaven knows how you are staying sane in the face of all this. Each new revelation is flabbergasting in its sheer WTAFness.

According to your DH, the order of importance is

MiL
MIL's free access to your money
MIL'S house
An old car
MIL'S paintings
MIL'S Church and local Tories
His home
His wife and child

A good man would get his priorities right.

OP it's time to woman up and lay down the law with your H.

Otherwise this will never get any better.

Do you want your DS to grow up thinking men can do what they like and women's opinions don't count for much? Because that seems to be the current dynamic.

MIL loan aside, the fact you feel forced into going back to work early when you have TWO classic cars one of which you never see... just unbelievable.

This thread is reminding me of Alvin Hall saying on his money programme that his mother always had a sum of "mad money" squirrelled away so that if she ever got mad (angry, in the American sense) she had the means to leave. I was going to suggest that as a safeguard but, if your husband goes the same way as his mother (looking likely), you'll just end up paying it out to his creditors. Seriously, this man and his grossly over-entitled family have the capacity to total you both financially. In your shoes I'd be asking myself searching questions about how I could protect my and my child's security financially. His priorities sound completely skewed.

If you resent potentially losing maternity leave to shore up this mess, imagine how you will feel when you are back in work, paying through the nose for childcare and juggling all your commitments, possibly wondering if you'll ever be able to move or afford to have a sibling for DS1, and how towering your resentment will feel then - working your arse off and not getting to lead the life you want. Hmm. That would definitely test a marriage.

My dh says that your dh has no incentives to improve things for you. I really hope your dh does love you and is actually putting plans into action and supporting your maternity leave as you originally planned. If he does not, again I'd question if you dh really does care and love you and your dcs because if he did HE'D PUT HIS OWN FAMILY FIRST

I am on your behalf OP. And it's not just your MIL - you need to stop letting your DH off the hook. It is really time for him to get a grip as regards the car and for him to get tough with your MIL.

Your MIL and DH both seem to find it hard to let go of material objects. The house, the paintings, the car all have to be kept because of sentimental attachment and they don't seem to like change.

I would ask your DH to consider why an object such as the car is more important than your maternity leave and why in effect you would be putting your baby in nursery to fund the car and an unaffordable house ?

The car is within his direct control.

Did they not have insurance for the mortgage? That would have been a solution. Also if the debts are only in FILs name why were they not written off when he died?

Such a sad situation for you to be in.... and dont even think of returning to work early this may be whats needed to get your DH to act seriously.

I think, from the OP, that the FIL's debt were written off but that MIL had the £15000 credit card debt on top of that.

She's spending other people's money; was then and is now.

She cannot afford two cars, a big house and a load of swish artwork. That's because she hasn't any money. Just like most of us.

If you haven't already done so you need to insist your DH and your BIL (if you can ) to sit down with your MIL and write a list of income and outgoings including loans, mortgages, household expenses - everything down to the last penny. Take a good look at her bank accounts. Look at her assets. Have they any shares or other investments. Then make her look at the figures and show her what she (not you) need to repay.
Then they need to make a plan of action that will give her the retirement that she wants. Does she want to be cash poor in a massive house? etc

It seems like neither she nor your FIL really had any money sense. It does sound like they wanted to live like Tory Grandees without the income- hence the remortgaging and loans funding their income. She now thinks someone else is going to do it and she'll carry on finding money from somewhere because that has always happened in the past.Unfortunately she thinks that's you and your DH. Maybe part of your DH wants to think they are the sort of people who can afford art works and classic cars. It doesn't sound like they are she is a 69 year old with mortgage troubles and loans to repay.

I think the fact she didn't send anything for your Ds speaks volumes.