Support for those in Emotionally Abusive relationships: thread 26

[CharlotteCollinsismovingon]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you’re dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie If you’re a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart - a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials This is a site containing material for men who want to change - please don’t give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

Evening ladies. Hope you are all well and relatively fw free. My dd has been so nice and shared her cold with me! So we are both snotty and feeling pretty rotten! She hasn't been at school for two weeks and already catches something!!

Haven't been on in a while, getting used to life on the other side as it were. I still lurk though :)

Therapy is going OK. Having to face up to a lot of stuff which hasn't been easy, but anything worthwhile is never easy, right? :)

My therapist came up with something that I thought may prove useful to put feelings into a box to help understand why sometimes suddenly being on your own from a controlling and ea relationship can be so difficult.

She said "imagine a prisoner who for x (15 in my case) years has been told what to do, how to think, what to eat, do as they are told etc. The prisoner does their time, then the guards open the door and forces them to leave without support. The prisoner faces being on their own in the first time for years now fending for themselves unable at times to make the simplest of decisions. With no one to reassure or tell them what to do they often feel lost wanting to go back into the same prison as they were before"

I think this is were I am now. Making decisions for myself I find very scary and dont really know 'me'. I don't even know what music I like lol!!

The therapist said it is an exciting time and a scary one. But one I need to confront or I will be back in that prison once again.

Food for thought maybe.

I hope you are all well and to all

better, fool it is NOT fair. hang in there and let them spend their fury (if not their money grr ). This too shall pass. it is not fair but it will pass.

lemon we need to get us one of those rollers

let's all build a tarmac roller, we can store it behind the vixens and get it out when needed - mink I can see you behind the wheel. There is no way mine would pay lemon he needs to lose that legal aid, how he has kept on benefits for so long I do not know.
dillie I am glad that you are making progress on the other side and that theraphy is helping, it really does for me too - what you posted makes good sence. Have an evening with and CD's - play them all, see what you like, get a friend round with thier collection -get a take away - have fun in your own peaceful space

better I wonder if a wee phone call to the benefits hotline might be worth it if you think he is at it. needs must.

hi dillie

I am ready for driving road rollers any time although if we ahve been in the vixens...might need a breath test.

Good point mink I think roller first, vixens for celebratory drink after lol - already phoned, had them stopped but he got back on, in the meantime claimed to live off fresh air - reported to legal services comm, hopeless - he has family allies who are as bad if not worse than him wonder where he gets it from - I need some more evidence but I am working on it, thanks
Got my Lundy book back today

yay for Lundy dh

hopefully that he is pretending to be so poverty stricken will go against him when it comes to access. you can only hope although the system seems far from fair so far

Oh ffs! (That was aimed at fool's FW, who is beyond belief.)

Quick question... I think I've asked this before but I want to check. Can I say what the terms of his contact with the dcs are? I'm not divorcing him (yet), just moving out, and am composing an email in which I'm saying things like "please bring them back at 5o'clock" and I'm shaking in my boots thinking of how he might react (righteous fury, probably, mixed up with a few victimy sobs), so I want to be certain that it's ok for me to say it (in some parallel universe I've never lived in but hope to some day!).

I think if he says, "I don't agree, I'll never agree," I can probably take it to my sol without her thinking I'm wasting her time, can't I?

Hello, lovely ones. Am incredibly stressed right now. Just crying, stressing, worn to the bone with it all

Rose just read through new thread. Are you ok?

Thanks for new thread btw!

Yes Charlotte: if you are the resident parent and there is no contact order you may graciously bestow whatever contact seems best to you and in the interests of the DC. When he disagrees you can renegotiate (!!) or suspend contact all together and wait and see if he goes to court.

BTW whatever agreement you come up with either between yourselves, via your solicitors or via another mediated route it is as useful as a chocolate teapot if he fails to comply as only a court contact order can be enforced (and even that's tricky). However not all FWs are the same. Some are actually OK dads and if you can get contact going in a positive way then that is all to the good. If you get to divorce then what has been usual up to that point will probably be enshrined in the decree by a judge.

thank him from me as you snuggle down later mink
You would think court would consider the poverty issue under the ability to meet the child's needs' bit of the welfare checklist but I doubt it. He ironically puts himself forward as offering emotional support, oh how that goes down well with someone who has been reduced to an emotional wreck by him. He is also asking for PR but is already trying to dictate terms in reality as he says he can't support financially <img loading="lazy" class="inline-flex mumsnet-emoji" alt="Confused" src="https://www.mumsnet.com/build/assets/confused-DVrVQwAF.png"> if that is not proof of someone just wanting rights' for themselves to control a DC I don't know what is. But court don't see it .

Charlotte from my limited and horific experience - it just has to be in the child's best interest, so if you wanted them back for 5pm as thier bedtime routine starts at 6pm say, then that would be your reason and seems reasonable to me but a court would ask why you wanted them back at set time - a FW would never agree to anything anyway and his reasons would suit himself at all times or just said to get at you.

breathe so sorry you are feeling so low today - is there anything we can help with?

Thanks, fool and better. I shall hope that he does nothing more in reply than a bit of moaning about how controlling I am (as I think that's inevitable)!

Thank you better having some kindness and sympathy has already helped! I just can't imagine ever being ok again I realise I am probably in some sort of reactive depression but the trouble is, it's like iron chains locked to my legs, so I can't help myself IYSWIM. But letting some of it go on here helps, thank you. And love to all xxx

Hi breathe,

Haven't kept up much, but I hope you are OK.

You will be OK again I promise. (So sorry I can't remember if you are still with your fw or not)

The thing is (as my therapist keeps reminding me) you need to allow yourself to grieve for the relationship. It is what it is, which is grief and takes time. Once you have done that the you will be able to move on.

But I do totally understand how you feel. If I had the keys to those chains I would hand them over x

breathe here is a hand to hold. it is tough and it is horrible and unfair. Sometimes a really good greet is what you need. all this being kept down has to bubble up somewhere.
Let it out.

I heard from rose earlier btw. i hope she does not mind me saying that just to put minds at rest.

charlotte frame everything in terms of the dcs e.g. in these unsettling circumstances it is in the dcs best interest to stick to their routine so they must be back by 5 in good time from bedtime routine.
Etc. Play the I am sure you are as keen as me to make this easy on the dcs card.
It is harder to disagree with
and it is of course also true! (about routine and not adding to their stress)

Hi. Just wanted to pop in for a bit of a reality check if thats ok. Read these boards like my life depends on it but dont post very much. H is always looking over my shoulder asking what im doing.

Long history of EA but didn't realise what it was until a few years ago. 20 years in brief..lots of criticism, nothing ever right or good enough hates it when im asleep. This is the one that's made me post now.
Yesterday I'd been to work and tbh im just knackered. I was having a nap on the sofa for twenty mins. H flicks my bottom lip. He does this a lot if im asleep and hes not ive told him before I dont like it. He ssys "you know I like to fiddle with you". Anyway yesterday I ignored the flick and pretended I was still asleep. Next thing I knew he was dripping water onto my face out of a jug that had been left on the table.
I wiped my face and woke up to find him in the kitchen. Looked at me and said "oh you're up"
Im so confused. I didn't go mad, shout or anything. I just couldn't compute it. It just felt so wrong what the fuck is wrong with me. Im just so lost, confused and feel like a walking zombie.
Sorry to moan just needed to get it out.

Not patronisnng at all Mink, no worries. I totally get what you meant.

No time to read the newest posts (promise I will)) but just quickly logged on to say - I'm scared.

He's continuing to be off with me for no real reason (unless you count not wanting to sleep with him on sunday night after he made a big dinner for us all). This morning he had his grumpy face on. I asked him last night if he could do the nursery run this morning as I'm going to another site for work today and it would help me out. Cue big sighs, eye rolling, need to be at work early etc but he did it after pressuring DD so much she didn't have time to eat her breakfast.

Anyway, was just getting dressed (dont need to leave for this other site until 9am) and he just came home. He NEVER does this. He came upstairs where I was stood in my dressing gown, still with angry face on, and looked me up and down. Asked him why he'd come home and he said 'to get a tissue'. Looked me up and down again and then left again. Either he thinks I'm having an affair, or he thinks I've booked the day off work to lounge around at home. Either way, it felt very threatening. Scared.

nini you didn't have sex and you got him to take DD to nursery. He is just trying to get even with you (in his mind) by being looming and threatening. He needed a tissue cos he is a wanker

frog I was in it for a long time, a triumph of false hope over experience. Do you have DC?

you know I like to fiddle with you WTAF? Full length version you know I like to fiddle with you because you hate me doing it

Sending strength and to all. A good cry is a Good Thing - beats wanting to cry and not being able to, in my book.

Hello,I posted a couple days ago and advice was to come and read this thread:) how do you stop thinking it was your fault and you were the one in the wrong? Hope you don't mind me asking

Welcome, lipstick. Do you have a thread you can link?

To be fippant in a serious way, you have asked one of our FAQ's . There will be others who'll have more to say, but I would start by realising that the very fact that you are worrying that it is your fault is demonstration that it is not! Is your FW worrying the same thing about himself? Thought not.

Nice to see you made it Lips
I think the way these entitled men operate is to make everything our fault. Being eager to please lovely people We run around anxiously trying to make things right. When it goes wrong it must be us to blame.

When I read an assertiveness book it said the effect of practicing assertive behavior is to make you feel guilty. It is so true. When I get what I want I immediately think I should back down and apologize.

We need to alter the mindset. We are entitled to space and to flourish. Our needs and wishes are important too!

Do you want to say more Lips?

I will link to my original thread when I get home, I have done all you said about trying to make things right, now he is blaming me entirely and taking no responsibility whatsoever. I just don't understand why you would do that,he knows but turns out he is also a liar:( glad I was sent here, it helps to talk to others who fully understand:)

Frog what you need is the MN army with our kitchen implements lined up behind you. When your FW is napping we would start "fiddling with him" and see how he likes it. Bloody nerve! How dare he use you like a Fisher Price activity centre with sex attachments!!

Glad you are quietly gathering strength and resolve. It takes time after the light bulb moment to make a plan and put it into action. There is no rush, particularly when it involves breaking up a family, as long as nobody is at risk of immediate harm.

lipstick hi. quick post. there is a difference between being blamed and accepting blame. you will never get a FW to accept the blame, maybe half the blame if you are lucky and even then they will back track.

You need to accept that they will always blame you without accepting the blame iyswim. it does not matter what they think it is what you think that counts. ignore them blaming you it is not a battle you can win and concentrate on not blaming yourself. no matter what they say it is not your fault. first rule of surviving abuse- the abuse is not your fault.
First defining feature of an abuser- always blames others.

There may well be situations where you are at fault but regardless of what those are, abusing you is not an acceptable way to respond. you never make someone abuse you, they choose to do it.

But you cannot change them. you cannot stop them blaming you. them saying it does mote make it true. just make sure you don't blame yourself. use that to make yourself strong. use that strength to get out of this situation.

Did i say quick post i meant rushed post. long winded as ever!

I don't think this is him trying to get even, Silvery, it feels like escalation. There was something extreme about it, even for him.

Just found out I failed my July exam. Badly even for my standards. As if this shitty day couldn't get any shittier.

Frog, very at him 'fiddling' with you in your sleep. No real advice but that's so awful. Do you have any plans to get away from him?

Hi Lips. Take things one step at a time, I found that realising my FW was the one at fault took me a long time (for ages I used to refer to him here as NSDH (Not-so-dear-husband) as I couldn't quite believe he was as bad as everyone said). As Mink says, you need to believe that regardless of what he does, or says, about you, that YOU don't believe you're to blame. When dealing with a FW you need a hide of steel and a thread full of lovely ladies wielding various kitchen implements. Keep posting, and thinking. You'll get there.