Support for those in Emotionally Abusive relationships: thread 26

[CharlotteCollinsismovingon]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you’re dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie If you’re a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart - a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials This is a site containing material for men who want to change - please don’t give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

Thanks everyone. To answer a couple of questions. We have 2 dc. Do I have any plans......yes but they dont feel like plans they feel like unattainable dreams. I think because I know exactly what I want to do, where I want to live, how I will feel when im free, what my house would look like, how happy the kids would be.......I go over and over these in my mind. Its the final bit that I am paralysed with.

Ive had counselling. She described him as emotionally abusive and physically intrusive. Ive read lundy. Ive detached, told family. Its that final step. I think that is why my plans feel like dreams because I cant make them reality.

lemon I think it was you who said in one of your earlier posts that your H did something that crossed the line and you felt able to leave. I dont know where my line is...or even if I have a line.

I google my past user names together with the word mumsnet and read my old posts to remind me of things my brain has forgotten.

I want a tablet that gives me the strength to do it.

Unattainable dreams->fact finding->reality check->attainable dreams-->action---->new life.

One step at a time!

a bit of anger also helps

frog I have thought I needed one of those tablets many times over - the ladies on here, professional help, books etc. have all worked much better than any tablet would. I feel that the talking it through and getting all the bad out is important to the healing process. My ex did what yours did when I was pregnant - when I read about in Lundy and FW's not liking you sleeping I remembered my DS hated me sleeping when he was young (when he woke in the morning) for the same reason they want our attention - but with a little child you can of course understand it and you wake up and get up with them - for a grown man to think themselves so entitled they can wake you even when they pretend they are having a joke is terrible and abusive and is in essence childlike - imagine how they would react if we pointed that out - that they are so needy.
Frog - you will find the strength when the time is right, I think to plan it out is no bad thing - make it as easy as you can for yourself.

Welcome lips I posted on your other thread - there is much better advice than from me on here. mink puts is well about being able to take the blame all the time but not accepting the blame. It is much more water off a ducks back to me now than even a few months ago. You never think it will get better but it does but only in little steps - once I accepted that it seemed to get better quicker ironically.

nini I was a bit concerned by a post you put the other day (I will try and read back later) - he is looking for something to pin on you that is for sure - he always has done but it is more obvious to you now as he is losing his grip and he is doing it more overtly - my ex was like that - slowly, slowly he revealed himself totally. Keep safe. I felt frightened when I could see it - I had suspected but then it was there in my face and it was an OMG moment - I was pregnant and I just did not know what to do.

Hope you are feeling a bit better today breath

nini yes he's escalating on top of getting even - kind of "I'll see your no-sex and DC to nursery, and raise you Threatening Behaviour"

frog nothing wrong with plans at all. You will know when the time is right. I think my planning stage I guess was around a year. He then crossed that acceptable line and then I knew I could not pretend I was OK any more.

I think we all have a line. I didn't know what exactly it was as in if fw did x then I will go. It just happened iyswim.

But just to add it was one of the best decisions I have ever made, if a very scary one!

Thanks fool and better. You both make so much sense. Im going to keep doing what im have been (or is that insanity!) And hopefully there will be more steps forward bringing me closer to being able to take that step.

Hi everyone. Hope your all ok and sorry I'm not replying to posts individually.

I'm trying to find a local counsellor currently, I'm nervous but I know it's the right thing to do.

I initially posted a separate thread up before making my way over here and I'm finding some of the posts on that quite difficult to read (not yours mink). It seems to be the general consensus that I am stupid to still be with him and that I am putting my daughter at risk. I know people mean well (and there is a chance I am a bit sensitive to this ) but it has quite upset me. Like people think I'm a bad mother.

I know without doubt that my husband is EA but it does seem to be a fairly mild case compared to some of the stories on here. Yes I may be minimising, but I also might not be.

Sorry for the rant but some of the comments just really upset me (even if they turn out to be right in the long run!).

dillie
Glad you are much happier. I hope I have that soon. Im getting a little frustrated with myself tbh thinking wtf does he have to do for me to say enoughs enough.
Do you mind me asking how ready you were when it happened? Had you already arranged somewhere to live etc?

kirsty if you are not in the situation or have not experienced this you may find it hard to understand why someone would not just leave or do a whole variety of things. First time round as this is the return of the FW I am experiencing, I did or didn't do many things I thought before it I would or would not have done. What may sometimes be seen on paper as the safest thing to do isn't always and by taking a step back sometimes we can help make the moving forward better in some ways and safer. The fact you have spoken up about this is a massive first step.
frog you have no reason to think badly of yourself - you are doing what you think is best at the time, no one can ask more of you than that especially yourself. Just coping with the fwittery is so exhausting you have little time to think/plan it isn't easy. Take is easy on yourself - be kind to you - you are lovely.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/1853695-Advice-please-bit-long-but-its-going-round-my-head
This is the link to my thread the other day, not sure if I have done it right though
Thank you all, glad I found this thread:)

kirsty that is my pet peeve about MN. Threads often descend into victim blaming. you are not affecting your kids. he is. you are not stupid. he is a FW. People have no idea how hard it is to leave...and conversely how easy in that once you are out you cannot imagine what you ever saw in them.

It is hard. but possible. frog you may just need to make that leap (pardon the pun). Believe you can. muster any help you can get. WA. deep breath. and leap. it is hard to believe when some one destroy your self esteem...but you can.

nini, the effect of the unexpected turning up and looking you over when you are in a state of undress, not expecting him, is to threaten you in your own space and home. Now you need to be vigilant that he could turn up at any moment, you will not know if he really has left the house or whether he will come back on a pretext, that is why he is doing it. I don't really believe he expected to catch you at anything, it is a control thing, he is doing it because he can. It erodes your space and privacy in your own home. FWex did similar after we had split.

The harder question is how to deal with it, the only thing I can think is start locking the door from the inside while you are getting ready, so that if he comes back, you need to let him in (key on the inside). It is a general safety measure.

The line - there were several, but the final one was pushing my dd during an alercation and then saying she provoked him. One can blame oneself for all sorts of things, but it was clear to me that DD was not to blame, and if I accepted that, I would accept him doing to her what he was doing to me. Which I could not.

Thanks quiet, that makes sense and gives me a bit of clarity. Couldnt quite figure out why it unsettled me so much. Hes being nicey nice again tonight. And so the mind fuck continues.

Kirsty, when I first started posting in my own thread about my problems, I had the same 'you're not protecting your DC' posters, which is upsetting. Im not sure there's any malice meant, just that there are people who dont realise the effect on their kids. Sometimes with MN you have to take the good posts with the bad and I think the vast majority of posters in Relationships mean well. Hope you're ok

de-lurking briefly... kirsty Totally with you on this one. I described myself as 'empathetic' on a thread. I got told I was pathetic. I hadn't read Lundy and hadn't realised it was abuse. It cut me to the core. I think lemondrizzled suggested I came over here, it was such a relief. You're amongst people who understand here.

nini that's totally freaky I'm glad you can see it for what it is.

frog I wasn't ready at all. Didn't happen how I planned at all! Something just snapped inside me and that was that.

The line he crossed was at Christmas when I had a phone call inviting me to a Christmas do. Dd picked up the phone and spoke to my friend. She past the phone to me and I accepted the invite. Fast forward to that evening I told fw what I was doing, his first response was, oh where are you going, who with and who is he? Dd (7 at the time) said no daddy, mummy is telling the truth, it was x.

I had been out before that week with colleagues on a leaving do. This was not a one off, but throughout my marriage he had always questioned where and who with.

I had distanced myself for a good number of months before all this had happened, so maybe that helped. I told him I had had enough and ran to my best friend for support, a good cry and copious buckets of tea!

We lived in the same house, but in separate rooms for about 4 months until I found somewhere local so dd could stay in the same school. It was the longest 4 months of my life!

We told dd about 2 weeks before I moved and she knew what was going on. Felt awful when I told her, but it cemented it in my mind this was really happening.

I think with the benefit of hindsight, I would have found a place first then told him. But I was broken and needed to fix me. Also I know had I not done it there and then I would have chickened out and stay put for god know how long! (Tried to leave 3 times in our 15 yr marriage, but always chickened out or he promised to change).

It is hard, terrifying and lonely at times. Its a very long and bumpy road so support from family and/or friends is a must.

frog your FW has made my blood boil how dare he! I can't remember what pushed me over the line, but I'm so glad I told him we were splitting up. I think it was the realisation that it was never going to change, that this was my life forever if I didn't sort it.

his treatment of our dog...that was the push that led me to MN, that led me to Lundy, WA, this thread, leaving, staying gone....court....and onwards to freedom

can't believe it really...not his treatment of the DC, not his treatment of me...the dog!

Hi, catching up quickly as I'm up early and we go off on our holiday leaving at 11:30 today. Just reading through the thread and nodding my head vigorously in recognition of all the FW! Boiled I cannot believe your H doing that while you were asleep. Absolutely horrid. Was it some sort of comment on the fact that you were napping and he thought that you should be up and about (my H always thinks I should be cleaning if he sees me sitting 'idle' on the sofa, he gives me tasks to do) or was it just full-on cruelty. I do wonder what he would think if you did something similar to him?

Nini hope you are OK and have staved off a full-blown rant/attack, I recognize that feeling of being scared, waiting for the rage to happen. And you did nothing, nothing wrong.

Kirsty I too got a definitive LTB when I first posted (and it took me a while to work out what LTB stood for!) with people asking how I could put my DD through it, living with such an abusive and irrational man-- I don't agree, if circumstances had been right I would have loved to leave but I figure that most of her life/interaction was spend with her school and peer group and with me and our defective home life situation was at least holding that together (in our case H was not directly making her life hell, just mine really). Everyone's situation is different, and I think that there can be benefits to developing 'coping strategies' rather than leaving right away. But sadly it looks like leaving may be the best (only) solution when living with an emotionally abusive man. And I still haven't quite managed it but after youngest DD leaves for uni (1st week october) this STOPS.

I've booked a car to the airport today and I am hoping that we all fit in plus our carry on luggage. I gave the company all the details, got the price for the a car (what they recommended) and cleared it with H.. when I called back to book it they wanted to give us a people carrier for an extra £20 so I booked that then asked him what we should do (knowing full well I could revise the booking to a car) and he exploded at me saying I was trying to spend all of his money and didn't I understand that he doesn't have any more work coming in (BTW this whole holiday thing was HIS IDEA and he INSISTED we book it) etc so of course I changed it, but if the car turns up and we don't fit into it, it is soooooo going to be my fault!

I had an attack of the vapors this morning when I looked at our car hire info. Our flight gets in at 8:55 and guess what the Hertz office closes at 9:00. I made a very expensive phone call to Greece (which I will be in trouble for if he finds out I've spent money on a 'pointless' phone call) and spoke with a nice lady who told me the info on the paperwork is totally wrong and they are open until midnight, but after 10:00 you have to pay an extra 30 euros or so because they'd be basically doing us a favor staying open or this is how I understood it from what she said. WTF?? I will be on tenterhooks now for the whole flight, hoping nothing goes wrong with the car pickup.

And why is everything always my fault???

I had two car tires replace today as they were dangerous one shredded on the outside from where H scraped it on a tree root driving too fast down a country lane and the other had a big bulge on the side. H wants me to take pictures of a pothole on our road and say that we damaged the tires by driving over the pothole. I don't deny that potholes cause damage to tires but I can 100% guarantee that no one will pay us damages (never mind the fact that it isn't true even if it were it would be hard to prove) but he wants me to go through the letter writing process anyway because he says I have no concept of money and need to try to earn some instead of just spending. I HATE that. When he got a speeding ticket a few months ago he was apoplectic with rage and I had to write letters for him (he can't write them himself as 'he is dyslexic') about how it wasn't his fault-- took up lots of my time doing research on speed cameras, writing it up and chasing it all and of course it got him nowhere.

Sorry for the rant! Again!

Charlotte - what you said earlier in the thread about daddy being a background figure an the children accepting that, now he is suddenly part of their lives, this is exactly what mine has done. While we were together he did what he liked, left me to sort dcs out, seemed unable to get a weekend day off with us each week, I did al, the school runs - now he is asking for them each Sunday and spends the day with them and also wants to collect them from school:( I understand how you feel when you say it makes you feel more lonely, I get angry too cause he is playing the perfect doting father which he never has been, even now he is thinking about himself and how he looks, his priority is not the children

PS fool glad you saw his treatment of the dog for what it was. I suppose it may be easier to recognize someone mistreating a dog than their own family-- society sometimes colludes with mistreatment of women but NEVER of dogs. Poor dog, hope he's with you now!

Regarding leaving, after the incident with DD, it still took me two weeks to snap, though I guess I was building up to it. I had actually tried to separate before that, but been hoovered back in. It is hard, and much more so if your financial lives are entwined. This is why I think LTB is easy to say, but you are actually talking about taking your whole life apart, creating a situation of uncertainty for you and dcs, it is weighing all that up as well as dealing with the day to day crap when the whole purpose is to grind you down.

But staying means you die a little bit more every day. It really does. When you compare it to being able to live freely (if broke financially). I get a knot in my chest reading things on here, because I know what it is like. It kills you a little bit more every day. You try to accept, you try to do better, you cannot sit still for trying, and it is never, ever going to be enough, because you cannot fix this. You need to walk away.

I think the point about dcs is not that you are a bad mother for staying, or that it is your fault for staying, but that abuse spreads like a disease, because it is a learned behaviour. Either the abusive behaviour, or the strategies to cope with it. They don't come out of nowhere. So, it is a double burden, because not only are you in an abusive relationship, but only you can model a different response (not accepting, walking away). And that is hard, because you want it to be different.

Sorry, those were just my random reflections. to all.