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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Support for those in Emotionally Abusive relationships: thread 26

999 replies

CharlotteCollinsismovingon · 13/09/2013 20:55

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you’re dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie If you’re a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart - a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials This is a site containing material for men who want to change - please don’t give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

OP posts:
Dearjackie · 15/09/2013 10:14

Thank you silvery this is very true. I have always been an over thinker however. I think my lesson may be to learn to put myself first as you say. Smile

Dearjackie · 15/09/2013 14:25

I have had the most embarrassing experience. My son left for Uni on Friday and a I've been feeling ok about it until I went to waitrose just now to get the shopping and it hit me how little I was buying. Started talking to the lady at the till and she was all sympathetic saying is it just you now? And I started to CRY. She was really nice and we ended up laughing but my God I think everything has just hit me. FW always said to me I'd end up lonely because of the way I was and he was right wasn't he. In fact he timed his leaving almost to perfection.

I just feel like there's something wrong with me that nobody wants to be with me, I mean lets face it even FW left me, not the other way around
Sorry but I just feel so crap today doesn't help that I think I'm menopausal as I keep skipping periods am all over the place really

foolonthehill · 15/09/2013 14:32

You will not be lonely because of the way your are...there is NOTHING wrong with the way you are

...you will now have time and energy to gently build the life that you deserve and include the people that you want and who appreciate you for the generous, kind person that you are. You will have time to discover yourself and who you are now, still a mum, but truly you too...

FW on the other hand will still have to act and pretend to be the person he needs to be to keep that ego intact.

Flowers
MrsMinkBernardLundy · 15/09/2013 14:39

Jackie congratulations on your son going to university Smile
That is an achievement for both of you. it will take a bit of adjustment.
You will look back on your 'individual fruit trifle' moment in waitrose and laugh...eventually. (chewing the fat reference- you might actually find thinking if that makes you laugh. it always did me when i was alone)

Be kind to yourself. your son has left home. FW is gone (yay) you have made your first forray into dating. all these things take getting used to.

What about having a party? An its my home and i will do what i want party.

Dearjackie · 15/09/2013 14:47

Thank you fool your kind words have started me crying again
I find it hard to see myself as generous as FW always said I was tight. I didn't start off that way but in the end I was turning into a penny pincher and was becoming mean spirited and resentful that I was providing fully furnished home paying for it myself and he would bring practically nothing to it at all. Sure he would have paid half the bills but that was it

As it stood he was here half the week for nothing just buying the odd meal and being extremely offended or turning it all round on me if I said anything claiming I was making him feel like shit. He threw money at me once outside a supermarket because I'd apparently made him feel bad

Dearjackie · 15/09/2013 14:49

Oh mink you do make me smile your great at putting a positive spin on everything, thank you Smile

MrsMinkBernardLundy · 15/09/2013 14:51

Jackie that was just him ensuring that you did not make him pay what he ought to. FW tactic accuse others of the thing they are guilty of.

Some kind of gathering at yours might help though. recollect with friends. have people round. move into a different social phase of your life get lots of single men round

Dearjackie · 15/09/2013 15:13

Wish I could mink I don't know any single men, that comes from being married 20 years then with FW for over 3 yrs

Dearjackie · 15/09/2013 15:14

I have been keeping busy though its just today it's all got a bit crap again

MrsMinkBernardLundy · 15/09/2013 15:34

Was only joking about the single men. just have friends round. let them know thesis a New era.

Dearjackie · 15/09/2013 16:09

I have been seeing a lot of my friends however they are all in couples so I do need to branch out a bit. It was wishful thinking about the single men Grin

thatsnotmynamereally · 15/09/2013 16:38

jackie well done to your DS leaving for uni... BTW the empty nest earns you the right to burst into tears at a moment's notice, FW or not! Thanks to you, I know you've been hearing it a lot but concentrate on yourself, looking after yourself and making yourself happy. My DD leaves in a couple of weeks, I am trying to concentrate on how exciting it will be for her but she and I are so close and I'm really going to miss her Sad.

Sorry ladies another incident I want to document before I sweep it under the carpet. Sorry, long. Last night we were watching X Factor and having a nice time and someone on the show mentioned Hanson (the group that did mmbop?, 90's) and I wondered what they were doing now so googled them. OH said they were a one-hit wonder and were probably broke and on drugs. I looked at their wikipedia page and said that they were still performing and also donating time/money to AIDS charities, I looked at a recent youtube clip and remarked that they seemed like really nice boys, etc etc (I am NOT an expert or a huge fan, just making idle remarks but complimentary remarks in contrast to H who just wanted to tear them down). Anyway he said the only reason anyone did anything for charity was to evade tax, somehow he escalated it into me defending the whole music industry (Gary Barlow who I hadn't mentioned AT ALL) because the only thing they care about was not paying taxes. WTF?? I said that some people not everyone MAY not only care about money and MAY ACTUALLY want to do something nice for people.

He shouted at me that I was a 'stupid bitch'. I told him made it clear, unlike what I usually do that it wasn't acceptable to call me that but got no apology. He just said words to the effect that he knew everything and I knew nothing. And he said it again.

So this morning I said a couple of times ie 'remember that you called me a stupid bitch'? trying to get him to face up to the fact he'd been rude/abusive... I got no apology or acknowledgement, then he said 'Don't say that again or I will murder you'... Of course, I didn't say it again. But I did say to him I wouldn't forget he said that. No apology.

Domestic Abuse- clear and simple? Still doubting myself as I sort-of pushed him. Now we just have to get through the next week...

thatsnotmynamereally · 15/09/2013 16:40

I mean pushed him to call me a stupid bitch not physically pushed him...

2013go · 15/09/2013 17:15

that'snotmyname he threatened your life. That's not an incident to sweep under the carpet. :( :(
You didn't push him to call you a stupid bitch.
You made a valid point based on evidence!
Flowers

kirstyleanne · 15/09/2013 17:33

Hi,

Sorry I've not read through some of previous posts but just wanted to introduce myself and say hi Smile

I am currently in a relationship with a classic 'water torturer' passive aggressive type guy. We've been together 13 years and whilst at the beginning his abuse was more physical (never hit me but would trash my room/throw things at me etc) it has moved in the last 9 years ish to be emotional abuse. This is something that I have only recently really admitted to and it's really hard. We have a daughter together and he is currently in therapy. I really want to make this marriage work but judging by the testimonies to date it seems like this might be a long shot.

His portrayal to others as a wonderfully caring, charming, calm guy is so complete that I could never say anything to anyone about this without just re-enforcing the idea that I'm the crazy one. I have confided in a few close friends but I can't help but feel that they just don't 'get it'.

Angry Just so exhausted!

kirstyleanne · 15/09/2013 17:40

OMG thatsnotmyname

Sorry I know I don't know your story but thats really scary! Domestic abuse as clear as day and you are absolutely not responsible for his behaviour - as much as he would like you to think you are. Big (((hug))).

foolonthehill · 15/09/2013 17:46

kirsty...keep watching...some people will not be as surprised as you think but your closest friends may be quite like you....the sort of person who thinks the best and is ready to forgive and excuse bad behaviour.

betterthanever · 15/09/2013 17:54

thatsnot you told him something that is 100% true - he felt foolish for having said what he had previously said, normal people would of replied you are right - it isn't all of them, but maybe some of them' - he didn't, he replied with you are a stupid bitch' - as he knew you were right and as he can never be wrong he had to put things right - what a FW - I feel FW is not strong enough. Keep safe as I am sure he will have noticed you are not taking his abuse and are standing up for yourself which is the right thing to do.
Welcome kirsty sorry you are here but I am sure being here will help, I hope so.
You ok today rose ? I just missed you last night.

MrsMinkBernardLundy · 15/09/2013 18:40

kirsty welcome. sorry to hear about your situation

that's it us nitvh your fault. that is classic FW arguing you won't agree with him worse then that it seems that the evidence is in your favour so he resorts to name calling. when called on to apologise he won't and he threatens you Shock. Not just abuse but clearly against the law. i would log that with 101 in case you need evidence of abuse later.

TheSilverySoothsayer · 15/09/2013 19:26

jackie, me and DCat wandered round the house disconsolate when DS went to uni. It is normal.

You are doing lots of normal things. Including crying sometimes after a pretty hard time...

ponygirlcurtis · 15/09/2013 19:45

thats not just quickly on to say - I second mink's advice, a call to 101 would do no harm at all, and might help you clarify things in your head. Ask them what their advice is, given the circumstances. Stay safe. he is upping things. Sad Will be back later to read properly.

MrsMinkBernardLundy · 15/09/2013 19:53

kirsty glad you made it over here. i know of the water torturer but have not experienced it. my FW is of the demand and player variety with a furious temper. if he is annoyed everyone knows about it.
However, there are others who will be along who will know what this is like.

Validation is very importantt as wt do make you think you are crazy and their calmness makes it so hard to explain to others.

Hold help is coming Brew i may even be x post with it.
And if you want to post some incidents then do. or not. your choice Smile

MrsMinkBernardLundy · 15/09/2013 20:05

Warning very distressing thread here
OP could do with some good advice hand holding but I was bit loathe to post it here as her situation may cause distress to those who have suffered SA but i posted it because the OP is so far in she cannot see out.
toast if you're reading i am trying to get you help not condemnation. genuinely.

she will not leave yet although she knows she must eventually and we all know it takes time. but she could maybe do with backing up the idea that just because you stay does not mean you habeas to dtd to keep the peace and some experience from those who habeas had to live under same roof may help.

I amnot for a second suggesting anyone give her the advice she requests in her OP. but i am hoping the thrsead is starting to move to more helpful advice in the ground between ltb and how to let him get on with it.

Sorry if this has upset anyoneSad

thatsnotmynamereally · 15/09/2013 21:42

Mink I read that thread and have to admit that I didn't want to respond simply because I am not sure what exactly constitutes the definition of prostitution Sad ?! I know I've been putting up with similar for years... anything for an easy life? In my case H makes it clear that because he earns all the money he has to have all his demands met (I make as little effort as possible and I think he knows it).

Thanks for your responses and for confirming my thoughts re: 'stupid bitch' that it isn't right no matter whether he was joking or not. I know it isn't right but I have been hearing this sort of thing for so many years I have normalized it. I hadn't thought about calling the police-- but really, I am somewhat miffed (!) at being told blah blah 'I will murder you' but guess what? From his point of view: I stopped doing the thing he didn't want me to do (remind him he'd called me a stupid bitch) so a win for him. So even though I know he didn't really mean it (?) I didn't test him by doing the thing again. So the fact that it may have been simply a threat really doesn't matter, it achieved his aim Angry. Grrr. Think I will call 101 when I'm back at home tomorrow and see if it's worth making a report.

The rest of today has been so 'normal' that I am almost annoyed with myself as I've made a big effort to cook a nice dinner. We have people over and I was toying with the idea of bringing up the 'stupid bitch' thing in front of others as I said earlier to him 'what would (his DSis) say if you said that to her?' but the time and place doesn't seem right.

MrsMinkBernardLundy · 15/09/2013 22:03

thats Sad yes I think not only do you get so used to be called names, they get so used to calling you names that they think nothing of it.

the day I booted my FW into touch he came in shouted a heap of abuse at me in front of the dcs for the second day in a row, including saying 'don't you DARE ever feed me your fcking left overs again. I will not eat this shit.' along with a pile of name calling including calling me a fcking idiot. this was after the night before telling me not to put too much food on his plate and calling me a f*cking feeder. can't have it all ways FW

anyway, he said afterwards, my friends say you must have someone else because they cannot understand why you finished it. I said I bet you did not tell them verbatim what you said to me that caused me to ask you to leave. if you had, I am sure they would understand perfectly.

In fact repeatedly calling you names is now also a criminal offense AFAIK since the law changed in March and threats to your personal safety constitutes DV as well as DA. so the DV liaison should be willing to record it.

so sorry to hear you have been having to have unwanted sex with HSadAngry