Putting 2+2 together and coming up with ....?

[Imonlydreaming]

I can't actually believe that I am typing this but I am getting myself in a real tizz about this situation.
My DH has recently begun working a bit further from home and pretty soon after that he started to "stay over" first in hotels, and now in a work colleagues house. (A man if that makes a difference) 2-3 times a week.

The other day our phones were on the side and one of them went off - he said was it yours - not actually asking me to look at his but I did and he had a text that said "I love you xxxxxxxxx" - not from me.
He got up and came over when he saw me open his phone and said straightaway - I used to work with her. Then told me a story about another friend who'd done the same to him. I thought it was strange, but people do make mistakes like that don't they?

After that his phone has had a pass code on - which he told me was because someone at work had taken his phone and left it in a communal area - possibly as a joke. Perfectly plausible of the place he works at.

Today he was having trouble with the signal on his phone and I asked if I could have the number where he's staying and he said that his own mobile would work there. Not actually refusing to give it to me - said he'd do it later (but hasn't).

Well of course the reason I'm writing this down is that I'm suspicious - we haven't exactly been that physical recently - but with 2 toddlers who don't sleep through and lots of illness and other family issues/ illness it's just been a bad time.

Am I reading between the lines and seeing an issue that isn't there? I know that a bunch of strangers on the Internet can't tell me the answers. I just know I couldn't talk to anyone in RL and to ask him would open a can of worms - that I'm just not ready to face.

Thanks for reading.

Dreaming, I've just read this through from the beginning. I so, so hoped there was a happy ending. I have no advice but here's a hand to hold if you need it, and you seem like an incredibly strong woman. Your children are very lucky to have you.

Well while I'm not trying to excuse him or say that he's right our relationship was suffering before this
Both DTs have health problems and DS especially is a very poor sleeper and I know lack of sleep has exacerbated a health condition of Hs own.
He admitted that staying away was good as he got uninterrupted sleep (never mind that I rarely get that )

We were living side by side and not together, but we did talk about how hard it was and that hopefully after an operation DS would be better and it would make things easier.

Of course whether the OW was first or the late nights (I know that he was working at the beginning of asking to work away) this meant he didn't have to deal with nights and the DTs quickly only wanted me so even when home he started to get away with it too.
Of course his solution was to start seeing someone else and I just put the distance down to working hard/ tiredness/ being a parent.
If there is to be a way forward we will have to work on that aspect together of making time for our marriage but still feeling that I'm not sure I want to
I know in rambling and need sleep but I've just read our texts between us and they have reminded me of why we've had less time ie my parents being ill and then him staying away

He was v young when he was engaged before 19 and it was when his Ddad died - I think they argued a lot, she is a strange character - she told me (after we'd been married 4 years or so) that she still had her wedding dress just in case
We also had to stop using our local supermarket (which was not near her home/work) as she seemed to "follow" us there.

Anyway he's never given me any reason to doubt him/ his actions before now I don't feel that he has tried to be someone he's not just to marry me. He's the same with everyone personality wise.

His family have had lots of ishoos think scandal, bigamy, prison, drugs and teenage pregnancy. I think they fight because they're siblings and their Dmum never really treated them as of they were grown ups with lives/ decisions of their own eg H was getting a new company car and she couldn't see why he had to have a new car, he didn't need it, she was happy with the old one (she went in it once a week to do a big shop) no amount of explaining that he didn't actually have a choice they were replacing the cars!

He is immature - he likes toys, going to gigs, gadgets, football - he is very like many of my friends Hs in fact - although I am realising that actually I didn't know him very well so maybe they're not the same at all

He told me when our DTs were born that he's won the lottery twice over - and I reminded him of that the other day. He is a lovely dad, although he has recently spoilt them rotten.

Hello love. I've only just seen your thread but from what you've said about this woman being an ex-colleague, don't you think it's likely that this affair's been going on for a lot longer than you think?

Is there a chance that the reason they stopped working together was because of the affair, which then meant they both had to get new roles/jobs and so because they weren't able to see one another during the working day any longer, they had to switch to evenings? Cue the overnight stays and living at home only part of the week?

Be prepared to find out that this has been going on for a lot longer than you think. Quite possibly long before your relationship was under so much strain.

You seem far too anxious to find reasons for why he was unfaithful, as though if those reasons went away or hadn't existed, he wouldn't have cheated.

Trouble is, you can't know that and sometimes the only 'reasons' are that an opportunity presents itself and a person is too selfish to turn it down.

Is there any way you can find out without asking him, how long this has been going on?

He's giving nothing away right now. I expect that's because this a lot worse than you currently believe and he knows if you knew the real extent of it, it would be curtains.

I think if I was in your position, I'd want to find out as much as I could from any source other than him or her- because you can't trust a person who was lying to you only a few days ago can you? Especially one who's got even more reason to lie now, when he's backed into a corner and shit-scared that he's going to lose it all.

Hope you'll take your time with this and that you do your homework before he gets the chance to lie to you again. Knowledge is power and all that...

I think you can safely assume that what he is really doing now, out of your sight, is figuring out how his future will work out, separate from you and from the DCs, whom he has managed to cut out of his life.

He has chosen to do this over the last while (and I agree that this was probably going on for longer than you know.) No matter what his alleged reasons were (lack of attention, etc) he chose to do something you didn't choose even though you are basically faced with the same set of circumstances.

You need to look closely at what he does and not what he says, because what he does is the truth.

You are remembering all the stuff he said about the DCs, etc., and it is stabbing you in the heart. In an earlier post you told how much it stinks that you are now faced with the decision that breaks the DCs' hearts, and all the responsibility of deciding what happens in the marriage.

But please understand that he made his decision about all of that a long time ago and not just for him - he made decisions for you too when he decided not to tell you that he was playing away. He decided that he would take away your power. He decided on your behalf that you would proceed to spend several years of your life stuck at home without his help and without the necessary information upon which to base that decision of yours (there are financial ramifications to motherhood and being a wife as well as emotional) -- without letting you in on it that he would no longer be really married to you or a father to your children in anything but name. All that has changed in your marriage is the fact that you are now becoming aware that it was not at all what you thought it was. The veil has been lifted part way. You now know some of what he purposely hid from you. He for his part is still trying to get away with sexual, emotional and financial betrayal.

Spoiling the children is done to assuage his guilt. It is not a sign of his love for them. It is all about him and how he feels. Spoiling them makes him feel like a generous father, some sort of marvellous being playing the role of genial parent. It is a really wicked thing for him to do because while he indulges his own whim in lavishing attention or time or material things on them, you are by contrast cast in the role of mean old mum doing the daily slog, being consistent, seeing to their real needs even to the point of not taking care of yourself. This man is selfish and very disrespectful. And he is not putting the children first at all.

Focus on finding out where all that money from the loan went. It would be interesting to see how much in debt he was before he took out the loan and for how long the debt had been building up, unbeknownst to you. You may be able to get access to his cc account online so you can browse past statements.

At the risk of sounding a bit OTT, is it possible that he is leasing/renting a property with her or sharing rent with her and they have their own place together? It would explain not only the staying over but possibly the loan (either helping for down payment on place or up front fees of acquiring/furnishing place).

Spoiling the children = assuaging guilt.

I don't see the OP being walked over and it is horrible to read so many people say she is. I see someone whose life has been turned upside down and who is trying to work through things to work out what she wants to do.

^what triggles said

Very little sleep last night. Felt like I was completely wired in the end. Just playing things over in my head - mad I know as I'll never find the truth that way, but its a process.
Just as this thread is a way,of processing for me - sort of a diary of realisation.

I will probably write some absolute rubbish here and feel free to pull me up on it! But at least if I write it down I won't be saying it to him and can remain as calm as possible.

To everyone on this thread and for the PM from a very kind Mnetter - you have all kept me going and I'm afraid I will need to lean on you more over the next period of time.

Delurking after reading your full thread - lean away

my BFF has just gone through something similar. One day at a time and keep breathing x

As Jakadaal said - lean away.

We're here for that very reason, to be leaned on. You are doing so well so far! The function thing. I would personally make an excuse and not go. At this stage you need some proper space and going together, keeping up appearances and sharing a room doesn't give him the message that this is serious.

Lean away.

Have told him that I'm not going this weekend - he's going alone

He's here later picking up stuff - he wants to sort out what he needs to do very reluctant to talk to anyone (because then he'd have to fess up)
Worried that if he told a friend then they'd tell wife/girlfriend who'd then text me - yes why would I want some moral support in this
I said I'm thinking about who to tell and he was worried

I've asked him again about how long/ when/ sex he still denies it and I told him he'd shot himself in the foot getting rid if all the messages because they'd have the evidence to prove it (or not most likely)

He's been staying in a hotel apparantly

Told me he'd texted OW to say again it was over

He can't seem to understand why I just don't believe him and why I need to be sure he won't do it again - he thinks his word is enough and that he doesn't want to lose us all

I pointed out that before May (when he said it started) he would have said the same yet he still did it
I told him he needs to understand why he did this before we can think about moving on

Feeling sad again now as the reality of this starts to sink in ie not being able to go this weekend sharing the DCs time
He really is an utter knob (his own words)

"he thinks his word is enough"

Does he normally think the word of known liars is enough?

He still doesn't get it, does he? .

Have also ordered Shirley glass book and have told him that IF there was to be a chance of working it through he needs to be prepared to
A)tell the truth
B) go over it again and again
He seemed annoyed at me asking the same questions

He won't tell me what he told her about our marriage and why she would have been so willing to believe him -

Just texted saying he knows he's lost me
Gosh he's giving up the fight quickly

I did ask him if he would believe in my position and he said no probably not

I think you're communicating the wrong message here, sorry.

All this talk of 'needing to be sure he won't do it again' and 'before we can think about moving on' conveys that with only a bit of effort on his part, you'll take him back.

Meanwhile, he's stonewalling and not even responding to those big carrots you are dangling.

I think he's still hedging his bets and hasn't broken it off with the OW.

And I'm really sorry to say that. It must hurt terribly.

That's a big reveal, he knows he's lying and faced with that himself couldn't believe. He doesn't get it yet. He doesn't understand that by betraying an dlying (still lying by the looks of htings) he has devalued his words to nothing. He has, Not you. It is not your job to come up with task after task he must complete to show you how sorry and changed and wise and new he is, he must do that. If he cannot be bothered it is a sign of his ongoing immaturity, laziness and deceit.

It's finished, dreaming. I'm so sorry.

Hmm maybe it doesn't come across as I write it but I do say IF we were to move on. And I do tell him that I don't know my decision yet.

Dreaming, if he wants to put this right, he will be down on bended knee, asking what it will take, and prepared to undergo counselling.

Don't let him turn it back on you - ie - you will never forgive me therefore it is over. He fucked up, he needs to put it right. If he can't be bothered to try, then you have your answer.

Just ignore any correspondence from him for now.