Putting 2+2 together and coming up with ....?

[Imonlydreaming]

I can't actually believe that I am typing this but I am getting myself in a real tizz about this situation.
My DH has recently begun working a bit further from home and pretty soon after that he started to "stay over" first in hotels, and now in a work colleagues house. (A man if that makes a difference) 2-3 times a week.

The other day our phones were on the side and one of them went off - he said was it yours - not actually asking me to look at his but I did and he had a text that said "I love you xxxxxxxxx" - not from me.
He got up and came over when he saw me open his phone and said straightaway - I used to work with her. Then told me a story about another friend who'd done the same to him. I thought it was strange, but people do make mistakes like that don't they?

After that his phone has had a pass code on - which he told me was because someone at work had taken his phone and left it in a communal area - possibly as a joke. Perfectly plausible of the place he works at.

Today he was having trouble with the signal on his phone and I asked if I could have the number where he's staying and he said that his own mobile would work there. Not actually refusing to give it to me - said he'd do it later (but hasn't).

Well of course the reason I'm writing this down is that I'm suspicious - we haven't exactly been that physical recently - but with 2 toddlers who don't sleep through and lots of illness and other family issues/ illness it's just been a bad time.

Am I reading between the lines and seeing an issue that isn't there? I know that a bunch of strangers on the Internet can't tell me the answers. I just know I couldn't talk to anyone in RL and to ask him would open a can of worms - that I'm just not ready to face.

Thanks for reading.

I would ignore completely. Do not engage with this. He is playing you.

None of what he is texting is real.
Words are cheap and he is on one level amusing himself seeing what you will fall for (because he has a feeling of contempt for you, deep down, sad to say).

However, his ultimate aim with these messages is to regain control, which he has lost (please see Quiltcover's post, which I have C&Pd at the end of this post).

Also, up to now he has been getting a thrill from his own cleverness, seeing his lies believed and seeing you faithfully holding the fort with the children, completely unaware. Cheaters like the feeling of cleverness they get when others are unaware of their affair because of their deception. That thrill is now gone, and he is trying to get it back. The lies will continue as he tries to see which ones will stick and he will feel he has scored.

** Quiltcover Tue 27-Aug-13 11:00:40

'Nobody discusses the female going to the gp for contraception unless they've had sex. Sex with condoms first and then when things are more established the pill is discussed (subject to std discussion etc).
This sounds like an affair/fling that is fairly established. Your dh has loved the ego stroking of a new woman and been feeding her and you a load of lines. She has no moral compass, sexting, sleeping and getting it on with a married man. Really is very poor form. He family and patents would be so proud...
Your dh has been caught out, it's very early days. He has lost control of the situation and doesn't like it one bit.

This is incredibly important, Dreaming --
You have to think what you really want, there is absolutely no rush and no pressure. Let him stew, his world gas crashed around him too, but he is no longer in the driving seat.

'Have you met the ow before?' [if he hadn't already pretty much left your home you might have - he would have dangled her name out there or would have mentioned her or even introduced her as that level of deception would have made him feel incredibly clever]

In other words, what he has been getting out of your relationship is something completely different from what you have been getting.

He has seen the relationships as a foundation upon which to build a shrine to his own attractiveness and cleverness. You have seen it as 'love, honour, bring babies into the world and be parenting partners and loving spouses together, etc'. For him, it has all been (and continues to be) about his ego.

Yup.

Oh i'd be texting back " got the wrong number have you?"

That'd drive me batshit crazy, he'd be learning some new swearwords that's for sure.

How dare he!

I sent him this message yesterday

I understand you are sorry but I need some headspace
I feel betrayed, deceived and used
You have shut me out bit by bit by not talking to me and then looked elsewhere for comfort
You chose to contact her and not me and that really hurts. As does the fact you were having such a brilliant holiday you had to contact her while we were away
You also told her you'd be a couple and were planning to sleep together
You have totally and utterly shocked me with your behaviour - the things listed above are not qualities in the man I married.
We have been through so much and you have jeopardised it all with your silly mistake
I will never stop you contacting the children and of course you can ring to talk to them
You must understand that right now Im trying to find the strength to be able to trust you again and not have that eat away inside me all the time

Not sure that I should have done that but wanted him to have in writing what Id been saying

That's good. But could you ever trust him again?

Well done. All stating how you feel without going over the top. Don't reply if he does

I really don't know but that is what the soul searching is about I think
Otherwise I'd just have chucked him out on Sunday - it's the trying to understand what has happened and try and work out if I want to try again

Tomorrow the DCs are at their childminders so I'll have a day to think

Today has just been about getting through the day entertaining the DTs and getting food prepared although every time I try to eat I just feel sick

BTW I put silly mistake because that is what he has been calling it so its meant to be sarcastic

He actually said 'silly mistake' ? I'm sorry, dreaming but that in itself would make me just finish things, DCs or no. It is so damned contemptuous with regard to your relationship and everything that you are.

'were planning to sleep together ' - oh, dear. Dreaming, you are letting him know you can be played.

THEY FUCKED EACHOTHER SENSELESS, many times. You need to accept this Dreaming. That you can't take this on board lets him know he can continue to lie, deny and minimise.

Do not communicate with him. Dreaming, I am sorry to tell you that what Mathanxiety wrote is HORRIBLY true:

None of what he is texting is real.
Words are cheap and he is on one level amusing himself seeing what you will fall for (because he has a feeling of contempt for you, deep down, sad to say).

However, his ultimate aim with these messages is to regain control, which he has lost (please see Quiltcover's post, which I have C&Pd at the end of this post).

Also, up to now he has been getting a thrill from his own cleverness, [I promise you I got told this exact thing by my IC]seeing his lies believed and seeing you faithfully holding the fort with the children, completely unaware. Cheaters like the feeling of cleverness they get when others are unaware of their affair because of their deception. That thrill is now gone, and he is trying to get it back. The lies will continue as he tries to see which ones will stick and he will feel he has scored.

Great, dreaming. To be honest, you sound incredibly, even unexpectedly, reasonable. The tone is still that you are trying ot get him to understand your point of view, as if it's not OBVIOUS that anyone would feel totally betrayed and destroyed. It's almost like you're vaguely sorry for being an inconvenience with your emotion. HE HAS DONE THIS. Not you. Please don't just accept that you should stay together. I know any alternative sounds terrifying but if he sense this he will learn that there is little real consequence to his cheating (which is way way worse that you know it to be, always is). You assume he has been lying to her about wanting to be a couple with her. Why? Why not just as likely he's lying to you? He's probably panicking about his loss of lifestyle and residence but that doesn't mean he was kidding himself or her. You are not in charge of the truth of this, love. Not unless you read all the emails and texts. You are dancing to his tune.

Please don't be ashamed of your response. Stay strong. Most cheaters I've spoken to are privately amazed their partners stayed with them considering the extent of what they'd done. And it is so painful and hard to rebuild.

it sounds a bit like he has a child like role in the relationship sometimes. Like you are explaining things to him he should really obviously bloody know. Is that right?

Yes dreaming, I'm afraid if you believe they haven't slept together you are protecting yourself. I understand but you seem charmingly but unhelpfully trusting.

dreaming

If you're using a laptop, sign up to 4OD and watch something called 'The Politician's Wife'. It will be free.

A number of years old but still, I think, of interest to you.

Why would they discuss prescription contraception if they haven't slept together? They are not 16 year old virgins.
Why won't you even consider that they had a sexual relationship? Why is that so far from what you think is possible?

You are already talking about working things through even before there has been full disclosure.
There is absolutely no rush to do anything. Allow time to digest what you have found out.
Tell him that you have now found out the full truth. He has one chance to be truly honest and reveal what happened with full facts, dates, meetings etc (including when they first slept together). Tell him you know they had sex and if he wants to move on this is the starting point. He could write it in a email if preferred.

You should watch that as well Quilt. In fact, old though it may be, I think everyone on the board should watch it.

Tell us the outline, Cozie!

Poor Dreaming. You are in complete shock, your life has been blown away and you are still operating from 'the old' rules.

Sorry we are telling you harsh, hard stuff. We aren't doing it to hurt you.

We have walked in your shoes and you WILL get through this. Promise.

How about taking a deep breath and telling up about your H, what he is like, how you met, what you liked about him, did your friends like him?

You would know it in your bones, wobbly. Go watch it.

It seems to me that OP is playing this perfectly. I am sure she knows what has probably happened so post after post berating her for not believing they have shagged isn't really going to help her. I get the feeling she is playing a clever game and she is going to completely floor him soon.

He really is (was) the man who would do anything for anyone

Very generous with his time, affection and friendships and finds it upsetting that some people are not as willing to drop everything for him as he would for them

A man child at times - collecting Star Wars Lego etc - but very like all his/our male friends in that respect

An emotional man who wears his heart on his sleeve - cries and laughs in equal measures but hates to see anyone unhappy and will try and jolly them out of it

Very involved with the DC when they were in SCBU and needed tube feeding etc

Maybe feels a bit inadequate - we had IVF due to male factor infertility
And has always deferred to me with decisions around the children (I work in eys) not that I've not sought his opinion he just seems to think I know best

He told me that he was upset that my parents haven't offered to help more with the children after they had to move home from abroad - even though this is impossible (both elderly and it would probably be a bit unsafe)

He lost his Ddad before I met him and he had a turbulent relationship with a girl he was due to marry

Lost his mum 3 years ago
Not that close to his family - they're a large family and fight a lot and have not been overly interested / helpful with DTs

He is (was?) the most decent man I know and I truly love(d?) him

And yes I know they have (in all likelihood) slept together - more than once

We met through friends - some of his friends are married to my friends etc

Our friends warned him not to mess it up with me - (as I said he had a turbulent relationship in the past)

They thought I'd never go out with him - different backgrounds, educational level, a bit of a bad boy (in their eyes) but (did have) same moral position on many things and shared many opinions eg politically, socially.

My family adore him, my sister had a rough marriage - wanted to meet someone who would treat her with respect like him (!!)

We met when we were 23, got married at 27 been together 13 years and married for 9

He sounds like a great dh. You have to look back at your relationship and think carefully whether this a one off or a pattern of selfish, destructive behaviour.

How long have you been together? The lies and deceit will eat you up. It can be easy to forgive and 'move on', but the reality of living with it is very different. You will probably never get over it.
Good people do make mistakes, but only you know if this us something that can be worked through. BUT, this has to come from him. He has to fix things. A few weekends away, tears and emotions will not fix this.
As I keep saying, do not rush into making any decision. If you really respect yourself, your dc and your marriage, please afford yourself time to grieve and really digest what has happened on your marriage and why.
Your dh is going to have to be totally honest and do everything he can to make things better. Huge lifestyle changes, total transparency, home after work, access to his phone, rebuilding your esteem, family time and free time for you to just be yourself and recharge from being mum. Not just for a few weeks, but long term.
Only you really know your dh and marriage. But please don't rush into forgiving him with the high emotions that will be flying about.
He had sex with another woman while you were caring for his dc at home. At times, he didn't give you or your dc a second thought.

My definition of a "great" husband wouldn't normally include absenting himself from the home and his family for half the week because he doesn't fancy a pretty average commute.

I'd also exclude lying about finances, secret loans and hiding money from the family from desirable behaviours in a "great" husband.

Having a second sexual relationship with a woman he professes to love while his wife is at home along with the children seems to be very much in keeping with his complete inadequacy as a husband in every conceivable way.

You can't trust him to put you or your children first, you can't trust him not to rip you off financially, you can't trust him to be sexually faithful.

That's pretty much the foundation of a good marriage.

And you don't have it.