Putting 2+2 together and coming up with ....?

[Imonlydreaming]

I can't actually believe that I am typing this but I am getting myself in a real tizz about this situation.
My DH has recently begun working a bit further from home and pretty soon after that he started to "stay over" first in hotels, and now in a work colleagues house. (A man if that makes a difference) 2-3 times a week.

The other day our phones were on the side and one of them went off - he said was it yours - not actually asking me to look at his but I did and he had a text that said "I love you xxxxxxxxx" - not from me.
He got up and came over when he saw me open his phone and said straightaway - I used to work with her. Then told me a story about another friend who'd done the same to him. I thought it was strange, but people do make mistakes like that don't they?

After that his phone has had a pass code on - which he told me was because someone at work had taken his phone and left it in a communal area - possibly as a joke. Perfectly plausible of the place he works at.

Today he was having trouble with the signal on his phone and I asked if I could have the number where he's staying and he said that his own mobile would work there. Not actually refusing to give it to me - said he'd do it later (but hasn't).

Well of course the reason I'm writing this down is that I'm suspicious - we haven't exactly been that physical recently - but with 2 toddlers who don't sleep through and lots of illness and other family issues/ illness it's just been a bad time.

Am I reading between the lines and seeing an issue that isn't there? I know that a bunch of strangers on the Internet can't tell me the answers. I just know I couldn't talk to anyone in RL and to ask him would open a can of worms - that I'm just not ready to face.

Thanks for reading.

I understand the reluctance to tell people in RL firstly it makes it real and secondly maybe you feel humiliated. In time you will see its him who is humiliated.

Whatever direction your marriage takes next you will need someone to confide in, offload on and get advice from. I hope there is someone you can pick up the phone to and meet today.

My marriage ended along the lines of what MN talk about as a script, a few tweaks to it but overall the same. I felt that it couldnt happen to me as whatever else XH wasnt like that. I never bothered delving around to find out how long it lasted, had they slept together etc as he was leaving anyway and the texts were enough for me. I will say though that he only ever admitted to what I could prove , I think there are no exceptions to this.

I am sorry this is happening to you, I remember it as the worst time of my life bar none. I did get through though and so will you

It's horrible when you wake up and it hits you all over again :(

You don't have to play Happy Families to go and see your Mum, go on your own, tell her he has taken them to some Bank Holiday Weekend thing.

He is sorry - he's sorry he's been caught before he was ready to jump ship.

He probably does love you still - but not enough. What he loves is the 'set up' of having you look after the kids, the house & him and beiing able to be a free agent all the time - sod that for a joke.

He wants to talk - well, gee, guess what? HE doesn't get to choose, YOU do, talk when you are ready.

You really, really should make him go and stay at his parents/a friends or wherever he wants. If he goes to her then fine, he's made his choice, no more decisions to be made.

As we have all said, you must tell someone IRL - you need the support and more importantly you need to make this very very real or you will gloss over it, shove it under the rug and try to pretend it didn't happen and that life can carry on as before - but it wont :( You can't 'go back' you can only go forward - either together or apart but if you go forward together there is a monumental amount of work to do, it's not a case of stop seeing her and life can go back to how it was.

Have a and at least a little something to eat.

This is what I was talking about when I said hard evidence.... Dreaming you actually did need the photos of him going into her house and staying the night. Because now they only 'texted'.

the lies and minimising have started. Your next job? Is to become the marriage police where he dodges and you try to catch him.

Dreaming? Listen to me now. This is not the time to fall apart.

Ask for his phone. Tell him to open it. Tell him you are going to phone the OW. That when she replies, that you are going to hand the phone to him ON SPEAKER PHONE, and he is going to tell this magnificent human being who knew he was married that he has been found out. He is going to have a conversation with her IN FRONT OF YOU.

Then, ask him to leave, warn him (so what it is a lie) that you have a PI on him and will know if he is with her, because you need space and time to think.

Then, do not speak to him at all. At all. Let him know you are seeing a solicitor. Shit him right up.

How he responds will determine whether you have a marriage left or not.

Get this book (available on Kindle) 'I don't love you any more' by Dr David Clarke. It gives you the perfect plan to follow. This is HIS FAULT caused by HIS CHARACTER ISSUES and NOTHING to do with you.

I didn't do any of these things. In the words of the counsellor 'he has found he has got away with it'. He told me 'she meant nothing, it was a fantasy' - but he got back in touch with her. I started off trying to heal the marriage, and found out I was married to a selfish person who doesn't really know how do really do love except at arm's length - which is what affairs are about. Affairs are about lack of intimacy and ego boost.

Believe me on this one Dreaming, this is NOT YOUR FAULT.

And tell everyone in real life. His parents, your friends, everyone. You would be surprised how much support you will get, how much disapproval he gets, and he will be shocked that not many people think he is all that.

Don't bear the shame and don't keep the secret. It took me 4 years to tell people, and I tell you this: they aren't on his side. At all.

Throw him out and tell.

Yes I feel totally humiliated and stupidly maybe there are some friends who I couldn't tell as they are joint friends and if we decide to try and make our marriage work having them know would be awful....

I need to get up soon but I can't move - if I can make that first step then yes a walk to clear my head.

I think more than anything I'm scared of both doing it all alone (with very little RL support) and the alternative of never being able to trust him again and it eating away at me

But you have been doing it all alone already, to all intents and purposes. He's been away several nights a week, unnecessarily, leaving you to cope with sick twins, ill parents, the house, your job and so on.

I just want to come round and slap him. Hard.

Family and friends often sense a lack of commitment or engagement on the part of a partner - they may not be able to put their finger on it but it can show as an unease in their presence or even a generalized but low key dislike. I think you'll be surprised by their reaction - and the very last thing you need to feel is humiliated. You've been the strong one in this relationship and he's a weak thing.

You need that fucking phone! Im so sorry op, you really sound like a lovely person and mother. He will deeply regret this....

I am so sorry you were right.

You know that he has been cheating in your marriage be it with his time, money or body so now it is up to YOU and only YOU what happens next. It is irrelevant that he still wants to be a family. He thought he could shag someone else and still have you waiting at home wiping his kids backsides.

He will admit the minimum.

When talking don't fill in the silences. Make him do that, you will get more out of him.

He has betrayed you so if he is genuinely sorry he will hand over anything you want - phone, ipad, passwords, extra money etc etc.

I suggest he finds somewhere else to sleep that is not in your house and that will give you time to think.

Use his bollocks about wanting to still be a family to your advantage - if he means that he will be happy to agree to all you want won't he?

Visit your mum without him, but take his phone with you. He shouldn't gain from this situation.

The script -

admits bare minimum

blames lack of attention or understanding

says he still loves and wants to be with you

gets angry when you don't roll over

shafts you and your children financially

still denying he is "with" anyone

minutes after you kick him out he is shacked up with his lover - "might as well since you don't want me."

Probably will say this is what you wanted all along.

You would be surprised Dreaming. Keeping the secret means protecting them from their consequences please believe me!

Being betrayed IS humiliating, crushing and so horrible. But this is not you, it is him.

Your friend's reaction will support you. Public shame (HIS) is important.

I asked to see all the messages last night and he said no - said he'd deleted them
Am I weird to want to see them? Will it be worse? Is it just the incriminating evidence he doesn't want me to see? He made it seem like he wanted to protect me

Love - I think pretty much all of us felt humiliated. When you think about it logically, it's not us that should feel that way, but we do. We feel that we weren't good enough/pretty enough/sexy enough/giving enough/whatever - just 'not enough' that he had to go elsewhere, when actually it it about their 'lack' not ours. They lack the balls to act like adults and talk to you if there is a problem. As others have said, I bet most of your friends and family wont be surprised he has acted like this. I know it's hard to get your head around, but if you do stay together, your friends knowing is actually a good thing, not a bad thing. I felt the same as you, most of us do, we want to minimise, shove it back in the box and pretend it didn't happen. Sadly, you can't.

He is lying. As a PP said. Use his current weakness to your advantage. You have to be strong. Insist he hands over his phone and if he doesnt then tellhim there will be bo trust from you and you cannot continue being his wife. Let him know that if he wants a life with you then he needs to surrender everything, laying all his cards on the table. Without this you will have no chance of moving forward together x x

Seeing the messages can hurt like hell, but it can also make you angry enough to 'wise up' and stop believing the bullshit. They only text my arse.

You could try to get them again now - you can get dressed, walk up to him with confidence and say 'Hand over your phone and your iPad/laptop/whatever and give me the passwords' if he says 'No' or makes an excuse, just calmly say 'This is not negotiable, either hand them over or go and pack a bag, I really don't care which'.

LOL at him wanting to protect you - it's his own sorry arse he's trying to protect.

Yes- I'm afraid that in my view, he's still lying so you have to ask yourself whether this is a man you could ever live with and trust (to any degree) again. EG - having been found out, he's still trying to fool you.

Let me give you one small example.

He told you that his bonus (ie the one he'd 'forgotten about') paid for your holiday. That would be the one week UK holiday that you all had and his bonus was over £10,000 I think you said? Where the heck were you - hiring a castle with inclusive fleet of Bentleys and 18 servants?

He can't even, in the situation he's in, fess up to you what the rest of the money went on. (And don't get me started on the cc and expenses expenditure which needed a large loan (also low 5 figures) to cover.)

If I were you, I'd stop believing anything he says unless you have written proof. (Preferably proof that's instant and can't have been fabricated.)

Hello dreaming. My first post ever in Relationships, I think.
I'm really sorry you're in this position. I don't know if it will be any help at this stage, but here's a perspective from someone who chose to try to get through it.

It's hard. It's really, really hard, and not necessarily in ways you might think. We are 4 years on from his year-long affair (conducted while working away from home). Our relationship is forever different. Maybe in some ways it is more open but not in a necessarily healthy way. I have a background anger and resentment. I am angry at him still, for having been so weak as to indulge what was nothing more than a stupid escapist fantasy about how much better life could be if he wasn't in what was an admittedly difficult marriage at the time. Angry also because he destroyed our past - all those nice times that we had together while he was in a relationship with OW made our history false, in my view. It wasn't what I thought it was. I am also resentful about the way the episode changed how I feel about myself, and that was unexpected. I feel somehow diminished by being the sort of person that would forgive such betrayal and that feeling of being on the back foot has made me aggressive and self-protective - I am easy to anger and much more likely to say damaging things because part of me thinks 'fuck it, you didn't care about me, and I don't care about you'.

He still works away quite often. I have to deal with that, and while it is difficult for me, it is also difficult for him dealing with someone who on a certain level, just does not trust him. He feels a lot of guilt and his response to me is often defensive, which usually sparks an argument.
The decision to try to move on is the easy bit. Living with resentment, suspicion and anger on my part, and guilt on his, is the long-term result, in my view. You have to come up with ways of managing those feelings without compromising too much of yourself. We're not quite there yet, maybe we never will be. It's still possible that it has changed us too much to be able to sustain this marriage, but we're still trying. It isn't all bad all the time, I know this post makes it sound not worth hanging on for, but we do have good times and on a fundamental level an understanding and sensitivity towards each other that we perhaps didn't have before.
So, in conclusion it can be done, but please don't underestimate the long-term effects for you both. He'll want you to just 'get over it' if you decide to move on and won't (probably) understand the complex levels on which you feel the effects. A lot of it will depend on whether HE actually cares enough to commit to what is going to be a very difficult few years for BOTH of you.

Very moving post, Zadok.

You can no longer trust anything he says. Wants to protect you, my arse. Protect himself he means.

Is he still staying away "for work"? Unfuckingbelievable! He really is full of shit OP, clearly only admitting what he can't deny. How he has the cheek to say no to your asking to see anything - obv he doesn't want you to see the extent of what was going on.

Please stop giving him the benefit of the doubt, he is taking you for a mug. He isn't trying to protect you, he's trying to protect himself. If he'd deleted the messages it'd be 'I've deleted them, look', not 'no you can't look, er, I've deleted them anyway, take my word for it'.

Frankly, if he's still staying away and he isn't now being open with his phone/fb account, then your marriage is over anyway, he's just cocklodging in your house on the days he's not with his girlfriend so that you still do his washing and housework. Pretty convenient for him, is there much in it for you?

You could try to get them again now - you can get dressed, walk up to him with confidence and say 'Hand over your phone and your iPad/laptop/whatever and give me the passwords' if he says 'No' or makes an excuse, just calmly say 'This is not negotiable, either hand them over or go and pack a bag, I really don't care which'.

This. Please. Just make him face up to what he's done.

He's admitted the words they exchanged included ILU, and you know he spent half the week sleeping elsewhere, yet he's expecting you to believe that it wasn't in her bed? That he was choosing, despite admitting the OW's existence, to sleep in a third place when there was no practical reason for him not to come home, and nothing whatsoever stopping him from being with the OW? Really?

Honestly I would ask him to go. He's adding insult to injury with this bullshit. And no, he's not treating you like you're stupid. He's treating you like you're someone who loves him and is in the habit of trusting the word of the father of her children, and exploiting those honourable traits. The shame and humiliation are all his. Disgusting way to treat you, and on top of everything else he's done.

And he's lying about the money, too. The reality, I would imagine, is that running two households tends to be expensive.

He told you that his bonus (ie the one he'd 'forgotten about') paid for your holiday. That would be the one week UK holiday that you all had and his bonus was over £10,000 I think you said? Where the heck were you - hiring a castle with inclusive fleet of Bentleys and 18 servants?

He can't even, in the situation he's in, fess up to you what the rest of the money went on. (And don't get me started on the cc and expenses expenditure which needed a large loan (also low 5 figures) to cover.)

An American friend of mine had a saying for this kind of thing: "don't shit on my head, then admire my hat." It just layers bullshit onto lies.

Well I've managed a shower and have plastered on the make up and dark glasses - I don't do crying well I look like I've been punched

Just hoping I don't see anyone I know - going for a walk where I often used to come before DCs and when pregnant

He's still texting me sorrys and I love yous but they're empty words he can say them to anyone

The previous poster was right sorry cant remember names - it's that everything we had while he has been seeing OW has been sullied.

Our holidays, days out as a family, the love you texts between us

I even read him the poem we had at our wedding on holiday our DS found a book in the rental cottage with it in "let me not to the marriage of true minds admit impediments,love is not love when it alteration finds" and I realise that it applies almost a much to me as to him. Can I stay on the ever fixed mark?

The bonus was not 10,000 (only 2 before tax) and yes I think we probably spent that

The loan is that much am so far he's only admitting to half of it

Have a good walk - and try to make contact with some people even if it's only to ask for a coffee in a cafe or say 'Nice weather' to someone. Remember that you may feel that you're missing at least a good few layers of skin but they won't know that. It's amazing how the odd 'You're welcome' can make you feel part of humanity again.

So he's even lying about the loan still? I'd be doing what perfect storm suggested. fwiw I would be gong to your mums, without him, and let him know that you will be telling her what you know SO FAR and that every lie your uncover, (and you know you will) will result in your telling her something new and shitty that he has done.

He has chosen to do this to you, and he needs to understand that those choices have consequences. He doesn't deserve your protection now, even if you ARE going to make a go of it, you will need the knowledge and protection of those you know to help you (both) through it.

'I asked to see all the messages last night and he said no - said he'd deleted them
Am I weird to want to see them? Will it be worse? Is it just the incriminating evidence he doesn't want me to see? He made it seem like he wanted to protect me'

And this, he doesn't want you to see them because then you'll know the whole truth and kick him out. The ONLY person this man wants to protect is himself. You need to get your head in a similar place. He doesn't deserve your thoughtfulness, you need to be angry and decisive and hard in front of him. You can be everything else here, we're right behind you.