Support for those in Emotionally Abusive Relationships : thread 25

[CharlotteCollinsismovingon]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you?re dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie If you?re a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart - a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials This is a site containing material for men who want to change - please don?t give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

Thanks Nini and all.
Tomorrow it is 3 weeks since FW left me the note (which incidently i thought was my birthday card) and left. He also left a note for my 10 year old son.
I woke this morning shattered. I took a diazapan last night but dont know if it helped. I cant shake the thought that FW said our whole 11 year r/ship wasnt right. He said he had never been happy. Why didnt I know that then? His mum saying he felt trapped. It makes me feel bad that simeone would think Im so bad that they feel trapped. I look at myself and I know Im a good person. Why couldnt he concentrate on all the good things?
Sorry, i am trying to analyse it all. Its making my head spin. I just want to feel better. I was a bit ubtill the battering from hum and his mother yesterday. How can people not understand tact. There was no need to be so brutal. I just feel so worthless and stupid.

flora you are neither worthless nor stupid.
He was not unhappy the whole time. he is lying. plain and simple. It is all a diversion tactic. he wants you to think this was your fault. he wants you to think this is about his feelings and that he is the victim.

It is not your fault
you are the victimsurvivor not him
it is not about his feelings it is about his behaviour and his attitude of entitlement
his mum is a twunt

He trying to wrap you up in confusion to exonnerate himself.if there is one thing a FW cannot do it is take responsibility.
And that is his mum's game too. if she admits get is a dick that reflects badly on her.

Ignore, ignore, ignore some more.

If you can buy yourself some flowers and do just one thing today to really make you or your son smile. (i jump out on mine and sing some ridiculous operatic song about what we are going to do...or pretend the washing is fighting me when i am putting it in the drawers..at ten yours might be a bit old for that but you know what makes him smile. remind him you are fun. laughter is the best medicine, our dcs laughter is super strength

Thanks Mink. I have to keep saying "its not my fault". Rejection is hard when you have invested so much time and effort.
Today my 10 year old is off swimming with a friend. My younger son, who is 6, will be with me so will do somethibg fun as you suggest.
They are going to stay with FW overnight and Im off out with my family who are looking out for me.
Im considering counsellibg which i can get for free through work. Any advice? x

Hello again all

I managed to get back to sleep for a while so feel a little better now

flora I'm really sorry to hear you are going through this horrible thing. I can totally relate to FW reeling off all of your faults then softening it slightly by adding they realise they are not totally blameless and in a way that's worse because it messes with your head making you think My God they must be right about me because they've acknowledged they are not prefect either.

I don't know if they do it to ease their conscience after doing a character assisination on you or just to make what their saying about you more believeable but it fucks your mind up. Also the mother thing could be my FW mother. I remember her saying things to me about his ex it wasn't a lot and it was quite subtle but now I can see that her boy was not to blame in her eyes. Same thing when I spoke to her on the phone she wouldn't let me talk and everything was my fault. Btw she also has form for walking out on her partner for a few days/weeks every so often

So we must stay strong and get through this

Do the counselling Flora, I also had some free through work and it was excellent. Just wish I could have gone back for more sessions. It really helped me see more clearly through the fog (I did it in the early stages of this FW mess too). I'd recommend it if you think it could help.

Analysing what he and his mum have said will only bring you pain - their words are said to hurt you. It's lies, all lies and not worth mulling over. Rejection is hard but try to put a positive spin on it - you have your sweet DC and can look forward to a happier future with them.

ninilegs I laughed out loud at the idea of a FW graduate list I think that excellent

mink Hi how are you? I've had a look at the list and he definately a mixture of Demand/ entitled , bit of Victim and a bit of Player. Nice eh!

flora Mink is right when she says he is trying to cause confusion in order to exonerate himself. Also his mum won't admit he's a dick she thinks it reflects badly on her. It's how FW operate. The problem for us at the moment is although we know on one level what they've done is outrageous and cruel, actually BELEIVING it without doubting ourselves on a deeper lever is so hard. I just keep holding on to what these wonderful people on here are saying. Wishing you strength

Help I really need some advice. FW passport has arrived in the post!
Just when I was feeling a bit better this morning. I really don't know what to do. I know I've got to post it on to him really. It sticks i my throat to do this because of the £300 I've lost thanks to him.

It's upset me all over again and I was so looking forward to that holiday the first one in 4 yrs. if I don't send it or return it to the passport office then no doubt I will hear from him and I'm not strong enough. Am just going to have to send it on aren't I?

Why does he get his way about everything ?

I would send it on. Enclose an addressed envelope asking him to return a cheque for postahe (+£300).
Thank you all for your support. Im so glad I found you.
Jackie, we could all go on a holiday together, lol.

Don't respond or get drawn in or challenge.

So when it's time to chuck them out, what do you tell them? Because if they choose not to can't see that they're doing anything wrong surely they'll not be willing to do the decent thing and fuck the hell off go.

Jackie yy to knowing they're wrong but getting ourselves to believe it being the hard part. That's where the thread keeps me on straight and narrow.

Nini lovey you are sounding great- like you're feeling much stronger and better in yourself? I hope so! Xxx

Flora I agree with Nini about taking the counselling that's offered. I didn't have any through work so paid for it, though I couldn't really afford but looked at it as necessary investment in self and freedom. No price is too high eh!

Also agree with Nini re not analysing what fw and his mum are saying as it springs from same place- deluded self justification. People doing really mean things never say to themselves 'yeah I'm just rotten' - instead they turn the uneasy feeling of having been nasty onto their victims or someone externally. When my fw was heavily into his victim blaming (still is but doesn't voice as much as has learnt on a superficial level that I don't accept it, however it's obvious that he still thinks it), I found repeating mantra from my counsellor helped: 'put the stick down!' Ie stop beating ourselves up.

Jackie yy re them injecting a little learnt superficial 'oh it wasn't all you it was me a little bit' - makes them pat themselves on back as they feel like they've given a balanced view, but of course they haven't- it's their take on it not the gospel. Glad you're feeling a little rested.

Flora, glad you have your family looking out for you

Hugs peace and strength to everyone xxx

Here, my STBXFW has changed his tune since an unscheduled full and frank chat in car without kids last night in which I laid it down the line (again!!!) Maybe a bit early given we are still abroad but it just came out.

So his marvellous, loving, accepting, understanding act has not survived a few home truths. I was told the usual load of crap including some low level (for him) name calling which on advice given up thread, I told him was abusive. He instantly slated and scorned and derided my counselling claiming it had filled me with nonsense. Ah yes if only I had my own brain instead of only bring able to repeat others' nonsense eh!

Jackie I agree with Flora about sending passport on- better to keep yourself squeaky clean legally. My lawyer advised me not to hide fw's passport when I was worried about him absconding with dcs, as it would not be legal. (I stored dcs' passports with lawyer instead.)

Beggin great question to which I'd like to know answer too! Those who managed to get fw out- - how did you do it? Xxx

It's all a bit up-and-down Breathe, thanks for asking. No closer to the door but biding my time . Roll on December when I can actually start making an exit. I know it's coming and I think he does too.

You're sounding strong yourself. Yay to laying it down the line .

breathe I think you have to bring up some slightly contentious subject in a way to test whether the new found niceness is genuine. I certainly find that with FW. For short periods we may skirt round any issues and not talk about anything of consequence and provided he is in a good mood things can actually be ok. Occasionally even fun. And then I start to think maybe he is improving. But in reality as soon as I bring up a contentious subject I find that he is not willing to listen to me and usually storms off and ignores me.

Had a strange incident yesterday. I'd seen my parents which always puts him in a bad mood. He had been moaning that he'd not seen DD all day so I said I'd nip out for a bit and give them some space. He kept on and on that I should watch something on TV with both of them. A few times I said that no I wanted to go out. He kept on. I decided that I couldn't be bothered to argue so said fine I'll stay and watch it. He instantly said actually no it doesnt matter - you go out. In the end I did go and it was fine. All I can think was that he was testing to see whether I'd back down and go with what he wanted. And once I did he actually didn't care whether I stayed to watch the TV programme because he'd 'won' that battle. Very odd though.

Counselling 2 on Sunday. Not sure what to expect really. Nor whether there's any point. Time will tell I suppose.

He instantly said actually no it doesnt matter

I've had that too Bounty. I assume it's just about mucking you about really, keeping you on your toes, call it what you will. All part of the control, I suppose.

Breathe, apparently my fw has wanted out for years! All lies. We recently decided to buy an investment property (think Homes Under TheHammer!). Was easy for him to say he was moving there. My house is so peaceful now.
Quick question, what are peep's arrangements for DC contact? How do u work it? Im kind of calling the shots right now but need to formalise something.
Oh and good news! Got appt with a fab lawyer next week re fw taking over 100k in equity from the house.

breathe and flora I am unfortunately going to post the passport to him, it feels like he always gets his way

I was actually reading a post I'd posted on relationships dated 26th July in which I was asking how longit took to leave a relationship when you realised you were being abused. I had a feeling of impending doom I think. However I didn't think it would be him leaving me like that just a week later. I still can't get my head around it, half the time I don't really know what I feel.

Did he know he was going to do it or was it done in temper as a 'punishment" ? I know I know I've got to stop wondering what he thought. It's hard though

breathe my FW also used to deride and scorn any advice or relationship literature I read. After one breakup we went to counselling. One session only as the whole of it was spent with him telling the counsellor all my faults which of course were the cause of his behaviour.

flora hope all goes well with the lawyer next week

I have a friend coming over for a chinwag and bottle wine this evening. Here's raising a glass to you all

FW has been on good form again today - as someone said a few posts back, he was in a good mood and nothing of consequence was being discussed. FWery this evening with the dcs, though, has made me feel more strongly that I'm right to ask for the dcs back on Sunday afternoon rather than let him do the school run Monday morning.

Landlord has accepted my application, subject to references. (So still got my fingers crossed and not letting out my breath yet.) But. He wants me to sign up to 15 months to begin with. FW thinks I shouldn't commit to anything beyond next summer as he might have to move to find a job then and I should move near him (or he near me, but we should both move near where we can both find a job). I need to give landlord an answer before I can talk to a solicitor. But I suppose I don't know how I'll feel next summer, anyway - I might want to move even if not pressured by FW to do so. Should I say no, just 11 months (till next summer)? Scared of scaring him off - although agent reckons it's not a dealbreaker. Hope someone has some good advice for me!

Too many house application- and FWery-related late nights this week - sorry to be me-focussed.

just to say Charlotte I think its fairly normal to have a short term assured tenancy [six months] with an option to extend. I used to rent and be a landlord. Unless things have changed much.

and more importantly.. well done.. going great!

Charlotte check the notice period if you have fifteen month lease with two month notice them that gives you plenty wiggle room.
You can still quit if you need to

Well I have had waaaay to much wine and feeling that I want him back again. Big mistake!! Help

jackie do nothing now. Do not contact him. See how you feel in the morning. (very differently I expect )

Hey fi nice to see you. I have a 6month initial period and then monthly extension thereafter. Thought it was fairly standard as gives both sides a get out clause after a few months.

charlotte good news so far. If you don't ask whether he'd negotiate down to 11 months then you'll never know. As you say you may not feel like trotting after FW once you are free. I like he assumes that you'll just follow after him even when your separated

Jackie as others said do nothing now. Wait till tomorrow then allow yourself to if you still want to! (Which you hopefully won't by then!)

Charlotte yay on house! Are you in England? In which case i believe usual assured shorthold tenancy contains clause giving either side right to give two months' notice after the initial four months- so any time from four months onwards you can give your notice of two months - notice period would commence from your next payment date. So make sure that clause is in there and then it doesn't matter how long the tenancy is supposed to be - AFAIK but perhaps get this checked by sol or cba.

Fw here has reverted completely to self pitying glumness. I don't doubt he's miserable but his complete lack of awareness that anyone else might have feelings is breath-taking. Ie he says he can't have an evening with friends because it hurts too much seeing them all happy with their OHs. Welcome to my world, matey. I've felt like that for years- sadly envious seeing my friends' partners give then a casually affectionate squeeze or whatever, hearing the chat about how they and OH watched such and such on telly and had wine and laugh together etc, when for years I was ignored or shouted and sworn at and NEVER touched unless he wanted sex. I realise now how desperately lonely I was in my marriage and it's only now I feel better because I've moved on emotionally from it. So diddums that he's feeling a twinge of what I've bloody well suffered for so many years. So tempted to tell him that but kids were with us so could only tell him discreetly to shut up about it in front of kids. Also made myself remember Mink's JADE!

Jackiedelete his number or change it to 'twatbag do not contact' or something similar.

And start singing I Will survive

At first i was afraid i was petrified...

I am not making light btw. i am grinning because i like to sing i Will survive in a very melodramatic and ironic way...because FW used to deride it (even though i have seen him dancing to it)