Support for those in Emotionally Abusive Relationships : thread 25

[CharlotteCollinsismovingon]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you?re dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie If you?re a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart - a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials This is a site containing material for men who want to change - please don?t give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

Bless you Beggin so sorry you're having a hard time. Sometimes it's not EA it's just general male boorishness that passes! When you feel ready to talk we're here for you. Meanwhile if it is EA it's a good holding technique to teach yourself to disengage- if bugs them but there's nothing they can do about you quietly saying umhumm to the unreasonable or abusive words they say.

Playing fw bingo also helps! ie recognising common behaviour patterns which is where this thread is so invaluable. You'll find they're all cut from a surprisingly similar pattern which us weirdly reassuring. Ie it's not us, it's them!

Keep safe and read the links at the top. I found I only read one or two and my head practically fell off from nodding in recognition!

beggin one way to tell is- if you confront the behaviour what does he do?
in a non EA rs you should be able to say I don't really like it when you do x. it makes me feel afraid/belittled/controlled. and although some people may not react well initially they will usually think it over and see you have a point.
but in an EA rs you would either be too afraid to tell them in the first place or it will come back on you- you made me do it, well you do the same, if you didn't do x I wouldn't have to.

It is legitimate to label behaviour e.g. that is verbal abuse. ut it may ahve no effect. I said as much to my ex. he just carried on swearing at me.

I remember once wen he was telling me that something he had done was my fault, that that is what men who beat their wives say. he did flinch. but he did not change his behaviour.

the key is you cannot fix someone else. only they can fix themselves and they have to want to. there is a link above that details the steps they might take. you can read it and see if you think it is possible.

but first they must recognise their behaviour. realise it is their problem. and make an effort to fix it themselves^. what you can do is supply them with the consequence if they do not. i.e. if you don't stop treating me like this then I will leave/call the police.

good luck

I did look at a couple before, Breathe, and that's why I'm suspecting it is EA, but I'm not sure. Whatever it is it's not nice.

We are having some home improvements done, which I am paying for. I've been thinking since it was organised that something would kick off (because it's me paying for it ) and last night he heard me swearing, not at him but he accused me of 'speaking to him in such a manner, do you know how hurtful that is, bla bla bla'. He wouldn't accept my explanation of why I swore so we had an argument. We didn't speak all night. He has gone away today for a few days (pre-arranged) and because I was still cool with him after him trying to 'make up' he's gone off in the huff.

Until last night I felt I was able to handle it a bit better, knowing what he was doing, and I suppose I still can - I'm just not sure of the best way of dealing with him.

Thank you, Mink. Yes, he once suggested something which I thought sounded a bit odd so I innocently asked "Why would you do it that way and not the other" and I got "I forget you are too narrowminded to see the bigger picture" and a lot more besides. I still think he was being a dick with his first suggestion and I think that's why he responded that way - because he knew I was right.

There was a very similar situation the other day when I was right and it turned into a great joke and a fun thing. Why can't it be like that all the time? What makes him behave like that sometimes?

I also had an injury not so long ago which meant I was very restricted in what I could do. He would sit stuffing his fucking fat face with ice cream watching telly rather than help with some quite heavy animal husbandry type stuff. He'd quite often say "You only have to ask for help". That's right, you prick, force me to ask. Fuck off. I eventually had a meltdown on night and things improved, a bit.

beggin No not a good idea to reveal she knows what he's up to. Best to keep that knowledge for information for self, to inform own decision making, as nothing will change ultimately, and could badly escalate. Although the journey often brings up the sense of a need to challenge! or brings anger with the realisations, but confronting will not change and may endanger [regardless of supposed knowledge of limitations].

Beggin what mink said about you asking for them not to do it because it makes you feel X and how they respond is a good indicator - my exp would try to look as if he was just having a joke about something - it was at my expence and he would go on and on about it, even if it had been a little funny at first it wasn't have after hours of it -one day, I said I didn't find it funny anymore and would he stop please - he went into a rage.... this was one of the first times I truely understood there was a problem and I told someone (a couple of people) in RL about that and other things. I was pregnant and terrified. I am still scared of him - it got worse and I would not be alone with him now, ever.
I also try and think how me and friends would have had the same conversation and how different it would be - we don't agree with everything our friends say that would be unhealthy but it doesn't end up the same way as when with a FW.

Hmm, thank you both .

blast it!

I refreshed before massive x-post [grrr face]

beggin them to stop, dont' stop them im[horrendous]e

begging be careful though.
And if you are going to challenge anything make sure it is a behaviour that you challenge and not him personally.
There is a big difference between 'that is a nasty thing to say' and you are being nasty

Although imo FWs are not nice people who do abusive things. they are abusive people who can do nice things when it suits them. it is because the abuse is fundamental to their core that makes it so hard to change.

And there in fact was another core of the difference between arguing and abuse. you might be discussing a specific subject e.g. child discipline and no matter how much you try to keep the discussion on the subject of the specific incident a FW Will turn it round to i get no say. you are a bad mother etc.
I.e claiming victimhood and name calling.

my FW could not debate anything without at some point telling me that i was an f'ing idiot, calling me stupid etc. basically just name calling. whereas i tried to stick to the facts and leave out the personal abuse. even a discussion about politics would descend to him calling me stupid.

Yes, I was told last night I was difficult to live with, which is what comes out every time we 'have an argument'. And the 'you are stupid' thing, but said in such a kind 'I am counselling you' way. Would that have warranted a point on the FW bingo?

Now that's the thing, you saying 'fundamental to the core'. These things really only happen when things are not on an even keel. His mother was exactly the same, and he blamed her high BP for that, saying she couldn't cope because so and so was ill, or whatever (whereas really it was just because the attention wasn't on her).

I hear what you're saying about challenging, thank you.

Good luck Beggin keep posting it does help achieve clarity. Yes it is difficult when they're sometimes reasonable- I guess they're complex brings too and can't be dickheads all the time

Hello Fairy! Xx how's you?

AAAAAAAAAAAARRRGH!
Just got back from a jolly afternoon out (!) with FW who is so close to being my XH now. We went out for lunch to celebrate DS exam results and fab place at Uni. Then I went back to our family home to help clear out the attic the garage and the shed before it sells. So far so good.

But in what parallel universe am I, having lived elsewhere for 3 years, responsible for the rats that have infested the shed and eaten the camping gear?? Just because I wasn't there to book the council rat man...

I had forgotten the huffing, the hurt looks, the silences. Terrific, at least I have remembered what hard work he is and why I left. I had almost forgotten!

Anyway, well done DS! Who is planning to come and live with me after the house is sold

...and breathe!

Well done DS!
And well done on your almost sold house:)

FWs though never change

Hi Fly sadly too sick to my stomach to speak much.

very pleased you have flown ?

Thanks Mink

Sorry Fi you are sick...

Welcome begging to this cheery place none of us want to come to which is after all quite pleasant! We always welcome newcomers with our mantra which is Detach Detach Detach!! Observe your special FW. Pick up on his special ways of making you feel bad about yourself. Watch how he looks for your weakness, your guilt and pushes your buttons. But float above the room and see it like a third party. Don't respond or get drawn in or challenge. It takes practice but when you get the hang of it you are free!!!

Fairy so sorry you are sick to stomach can you talk? Xxx

Mink the house sale is almost a miracle. We had a valuation for the divorce and it was very low. I argued we should market it higher. We found a private buyer who offered well above that and wants it in October. Gulp! Now we just have to clear it and FW has to move into rented and it is done. Can it really be that easy?? I keep waiting for the sting.

Thank you, Lemon.

Are any of you still with them or have you all managed to LTB?

Feeling somewhat upset that this is real

Fi hope you are ok my lovely.

Lemon has he still been living there in the three years that you haven't? Fab news on the house sale though, fingers crossed...

Beggin - I think we are a mix of having LTB and still with them. The realisation point can be difficult, it's a lot to take in and it shifts everything so much. You may start to realise that things only stay on an even keel when you are doing your damnedest not to rock the boat - so are walking on eggshells the rest of the time, and adapting your behaviour to avoid setting him off, even unconsciously. Take it easy and read around the subject.

Hi all sorry to but in but just need abit of hand holding. Had a lovely day at my friends house. But had to drive home past where FW lives and works and its got me feeling really down and like crying. How could he just dump me like this I feel like I am worthless

I've been really strong these last 2 weeks but now I feel so sad. I can't believe after all that time he just upped and went I really didn't see it coming, do you think it was planned? Or a spur of the moment thing in a temper?. I just feel like I have loads of questions. I feel like I need to hear from him yet at the same time dreading that I hear from him. I will probably never know will I

I keep thinking he must've got someone else. How can he just switch off like that god he was still saying he loved me earlier that day. Then I think it was me maybe I was just too jealous for him and I wasn't always the nicest person to be around. I often felt unwell or tired and he did say to me " he has to put up with my illness on a daily basis" I feel like I'm horrible and nobody is going to want/ put up with me

Hi. Sorry for lack of personals and jumping on thread agai. I'm in tears. Today I spoke to my FWs mother and I asked her how my FW was when she spoke to him. She then told me he wasnt comig back any time soon and she tried to say that he was only depressed when living with me. She said that he was happy on his own even though he missed the DC. She said he was ashamed of me because I'm overweight (size 14-16). She said that he felt trapped living with me as we didnt have a good start (I fell pg early in our r/ship). Not what I wanted to hear from his mum 2 weeks after he left me whilst I was on hols with the kids, leaving only a letter. I then called him as I was upset. He then said I shouldn't listen to her. I got a bit emotional and said I really missed him. He then started telling me what I did wrong in our r/ship. He said he was never happy in our 11 years together and that I was controlling and obstinate.
I can't take another battering. My self esteem is so low. I used to be fun and confident. How can people say such awful things that are not true. I'm in tears as I type.

Hello all my lovely friends Hello to all those who I've not met before

I've been following from afar. It's the same here - same old, same old...

Just posting to see if the collective can offer me any advice. I've been contacted today by a friend who is asking on behalf of a friend of a friend who is in need of 'support'. My friend has already pointed her here, but is anyone familiar with what is local in Norfolk? Is Women's Aid operational there? It's not here so I use a different service.

Good vibes to you all. You (we) are all amazing, fantastic women who are strong enough to take the crap we have and still come out the other side with our sense of humour intact. I love you all and miss you like crazy. I'm sitting here, raising a glass of (STBXH's favourite) wine to you all xx