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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Support for those in Emotionally Abusive Relationships : thread 25

999 replies

CharlotteCollinsismovingon · 11/08/2013 23:36

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you?re dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie If you?re a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart - a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials This is a site containing material for men who want to change - please don?t give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

OP posts:
MrsMinkBernardLundy · 06/09/2013 09:44

Ah the classic why are you not over me being a dick it? ploy Hmm
What he fails to realise is it is not about what children remember it is about what they learnSad

ninilegsintheair · 06/09/2013 10:07

Exactly Mink. And it hurts to watch so much that I cant bear it Sad

foolonthehill · 06/09/2013 14:41

"WTF is wrong with him! Im afraid, for DD mostly. He turns at the drop if a hat."

You know what is wrong with him.

The trouble is, like the rest of us you keep thinking that inside is a normal, nice person trying to get out.

There isn't Sad

ColinButterfly · 06/09/2013 16:44

I'm having a desk makeover getting ready for my Date that Isn't a Date. What was I thinking? Devolving power to my drunken self, that's what. She can't be much more of an idiot than my sober self and it can't be any worse than FW can it? Please God.

It's just an after work drink. Am trying to be open minded but I already don't like this whole process. We have no idea what each other looks like. The perils of swapping phone numbers when hammered. So hammered i was smoking.

Gah.

Still a bit worried about next week, but that's next week. Going to enjoy all the days between now and then.

MrsMinkBernardLundy · 06/09/2013 21:04

Post reposted with OP's permission.
I thought this just summed up the insidious nature of abuse so well. It may help anyone who is lurking or unsure that what they are going through is abuse to recognise it and name it.

Thanks FRMD

FrigginRexManningDay Fri 06-Sep-13 16:46:41

I was with my ex for four years. At the beginning he was wonderful,every woman's dream man. He helped me see my faults and correct them. My flaws were highlighted so I could hide them,he nurtured me to be a proper housewife. But I was impulsive and excitable,not what he wanted in a wife so he helped me control that,showed me the people in my life that encouraged it and I took his advise not to see them. He was my first experienced sexual partner,he showed me how to do what he liked,made me practice til I was good enough,even when I was tired,when I was I'll,when I was heavily pregnant he showed me that his sexual pleasure and happiness was important. And I wanted to keep him happy,if I didn't I would have to live with his disapproval. When our baby was born I wasn't a good mother,he told me how to do it better. I found ways to get him to help,by giving him a blowjob the day I came out of hospital. I did this all willingly because I loved him. I wasn't being beaten or held down and raped.
Except I didn't realise that I was being abused sexually,emotionally because it built up bit by bit over the years. He had controlled and made me dependant on him so slowly and deliberately that I didn't even realise. It took me a long time to realise after he left what exactly he had done. Years later I still have moments of clarity about things he did. When you are in the middle of the fog you can't see what is happening.

ponygirlcurtis · 06/09/2013 21:32

Hope your date goes well, Colin, and hope your weekend is bearable, Nini Confused.

mink thanks for posting that, and thanks too to FRMD for writing it. It resonates. A lot. The bits about being a proper wife - almost word for word. And the knowing what I had to do to keep him happy and 'helpful' and living with disapproval if I didn't (disapproval is like a stab through the heart to me, and he knew it). Sad
Glad you are out, FRMD. Hope you are doing well. Flowers

FrigginRexManningDay · 06/09/2013 21:46

I am doing well. We are worth so much more than the value our abusers place on us.

My heart goes out to those in and getting out of abusive relationships. Thankful to those who are out.
Xxxx

betterthanever · 07/09/2013 00:07

Noregrets he is emotionally abusing DD `confiding in her' poor lamb - I don't have any advice other than I would probably say that he should not talk about things like that to her as they are things grown ups need to sort out. She is getting older ever day and will probably know already what he is doing is wrong Sad they stoop so low.
nini your fam sounds like a lot of mine - I can never decide why they are like that Sad I am sorry you have a lack of support in RL - you are so strong coping with as much as you do. I do worry about that temper of his - keep safe.
mink the switch thing is so right - I try and try and try to keep the mantra of yes respond but don't react but it does shock very naturally and they know it.
pony I underestimate DS at times Pony - I am so proud of that good head on his shoulders, thank you - I don't trust the legal system and social services I can only arm him against abuse and that does not mean speaking about his dad at all just keeping him loving and kind and secure, he then sees a difference when that isn't there. In many ways the younger ones see it clearer they see no reason to make allowances as you do when you are older - when some is not nice they walk away especially when they have not relationship with them.
You ok rose?

bountyicecream · 07/09/2013 16:31

Hi everyone. Thanks for the thoughts and well wishes. I am safe but not really ok. I still haven't managed to go. I've felt too ashamed to post just now but Charlotte and Pony have persuaded me back Flowers

Fw picked up on my plans to leave. I was stalling over booking a holidays as I didn't want him to waste his money on it, and he badgered me until I told him that I was thinking of going. I feel so pathetic.

I'm meeting with our counsellor alone next week so maybe that will help. The counsellor wants to see FW alone too, but so far he's refusing to go.

He made me watch 'Mum and Dad are Splitting up' on BBC2 on Thurs. It was awful. That has rocked my boat a bit too, although I've taken some comfort from the thread about it on the relationships board. I'm sure he made me watch it to reinforce how bad us splitting up would be for DD and again how selfish I am being at the moment.

So sorry to let you all and my DD down. But I wanted you to know that at least I'm safe.

Thanks so much for being here for me.

betterthanever · 07/09/2013 17:36

You are not letting anyone down bounty you have to do what you feel is best at that time. I hope the session with the counsellor goes well for you. Really nice to hear from you.

Inthequietcoach · 07/09/2013 19:49

bounty, there is a great review of the vast evidence of the impact of family breakdown on child wellbeing - on phone so can't link, but google Impact of family breakdown on child well being. It is a pdf file.

The conclusion is that family function is as important as family form. So, a high conflict, dysfunctional family will do more damage than a no conflict separated one. It has some good recommendations for how to ease the transition for children.

The other point is that a substantial part of the disadvantage children in separated families have is economic. OECD reports on child wellbeing have found that children do best in countries like Sweden, where there is low income inequality and low levels of child poverty. Sweden has similar levels of lone parents to the UK, but consistently is at the top of comparative child wellbeing tables, the UK does badly, because of poverty and inequality.

My last point, children have always been brought up in lone parent households. It just used to be because one parent would die, or the man would desert, or the state would send large swathes of men off to war. The idea of a stable, two parent household is relatively recent, and short-lived, and there is enough evidence that it was sustained by Valium and depressed housewives.

Did not watch the show, but would question the political and social context it is being made in, apart from anything else.

None of which helps you on a personal level, but you can always post here, whether you are still in or out, there are no conditions. All good wishes, whatever decisions you make Thanks but I hope the individual counselling will help.

ponygirlcurtis · 07/09/2013 20:02

better your DS has you keeping him safe and well and look how he flourished with you.

Hey bounty Flowers for you. You haven't let anyone down of course. This is still a forward step, it's still part of your journey. Once you are out it wont be a straight line of plain sailing, so this helps you adjust to the fact that he will not play fair. Ie of course he wanted you to watch it to make you feel bad. If it had been something that he thought might be uplifting and reinforce the idea that splitting up might be a good thing, you think he would have been so keen?
Be kind to yourself (put down that stick, as mink would say), and look forward, not back. You will get there.

MrsMinkBernardLundy · 07/09/2013 20:08

bounty (((hugs))) i am just so glad you and DD are ok. put down the stick. that is the problem with cheering. If it makes you feel you are letting us down. Leaving is hard. breaking your family into two halves is hard.

we will cheer you on, when you go.whenever that is. there is no timetable!

As for splitting your family i am always struck by how often people on this and other threads say how quickly leaving transforms their kids- for the better.

And i think of all the post war SM and how nobody told them they were crap families. this idea that single parents are no good really is a stigma from the Thacher era.

Yeah. i would rather have a 'proper' family. but it was not on the menu. I had two choices neither of them very palatable.

Your FW is making and last gasp to manipulate you.
Watch your back and stay safe.

This train is most mysterious. it appears at the platform right at the second you are ready to step on it and not before. i think you can hear it coming up the track though. Smile

MrsMinkBernardLundy · 07/09/2013 20:10

X post. pony you know me do well. although i think it was either bounty or breathe who said it first. Grin

ponygirlcurtis · 07/09/2013 20:38

Grin mink - I think it was breathe maybe, but we all need to hear it again and again, we are all guilty of it sometimes!

CharlotteCollinsismovingon · 07/09/2013 20:51

FRMD that really resonates with me, too. Thank you for explaining it so clearly. I still struggle to see where the abusiveness is.

The other day I found a good solicitor (hooray!), but there was one awful moment in the meeting, after she'd looked at my letter from the GP and when she was looking at my list of reasons for leaving. She looked up at me and somewhat sharply said, "Where's the abuse in this?" I felt the ground slipping under my feet. I stammered a bit and managed to say that I thought it was EA.

It was ok then. She'd misread the GP's letter and thought it mentioned physical injuries. She asked for more details about his behaviour and I wittered on for ten minutes about not much, couldn't think of anything bad really, my mind keeps slipping off it, I think. At the end of that, she said I'd given loads of useful information and it was only because I was still trapped in the situation that I didn't realise how bad the things I was talking about were! :o And that she wouldn't ask me to talk about it again. I stopped shaking after about ten more minutes!

Going back to what FRMD said, and pony's comment about disapproval cutting like a knife, it gave me a bit of a lightbulb moment just now. That control by disapproval was just how FW was raised by his father. Look at the damage that's been done by it! I can suddenly see clearly why the dcs need to be taken away from FW, how it could damage them. :(

My sol says she wasn't always sat that side of the desk...

She's ace!

OP posts:
ponygirlcurtis · 07/09/2013 21:01

Charlotte - the very fact that talking about his behaviour towards you causes you to shake is just so bad. Sad So glad you've found 'your' solicitor. Smile
And, as hard as it is, the lightbulb moment is good too. It's more clarity from the fog. Not always an easy thought, though.

BloomingRose · 07/09/2013 21:02

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

CharlotteCollinsismovingon · 07/09/2013 21:08

She will forget it very quickly, Rose, with you as her constancy.

You are seeing him more and more clearly - you are doing very well! And that's great about his sister. She sounds a good'un!

OP posts:
ponygirlcurtis · 07/09/2013 21:13

The fact that even his own sister doesn't want him in her house says it all, Rose! But you sound determined and positive, good! The change in your perspective since you got out has been fantastic. DD is probably only tantruming because the presence of her dad is triggering her to be that way to cope. She'll be fine, and so will you.

betterthanever · 07/09/2013 21:14

Inthequietcoach hope this link works but I think this is the research you are talking about for bounty it is wonderful dera.ioe.ac.uk/11165/1/DCSF-RR113.pdf

betterthanever · 07/09/2013 21:15

Keep strong rose and enjoy the peace now.

betterthanever · 07/09/2013 21:20

And thank you pony you are such a kind person.

Inthequietcoach · 07/09/2013 21:35

better, yes, it is. It is well balanced and a full review. Thanks for linking.

charlotte, glad all good with sol. I would hyperventilate and begin to feel like I was leaving my body then feel like I was going to faint when I spoke to anyone about our sparation, never mind any issues. You did well, it is hard.

BloomingRose · 07/09/2013 21:35

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.