Support for those in Emotionally Abusive Relationships : thread 25

[CharlotteCollinsismovingon]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you?re dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie If you?re a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart - a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials This is a site containing material for men who want to change - please don?t give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

No, he is never going to 'see'. But that is not something you can come to terms with overnight, it will take time. And not speaking to him will help with that.

With FW I was a hysterical mess. I am not hysterical any more. Upset sometimes, yes. But not hysterical. Rose, keep him at arm's length for a while and see how that makes you feel. You might not always feel 100% but it's the only way towards clarity.

A different reality. So true.

It's not possible to get it, really. The way he thinks truely makes no sense. And yet it makes perfect sense to him.

You are already seeing him more clearly than before you moved, I think. Hold on in there, and give him as little airspace as possible.

Rose my fw does not think he's abusive. When he was at his worst telling me I'm fat and a crap mother it was and I quote "to maintain a barrier between us as you have hurt me so much and to keep his position in the house".

But not abusive no.

That's the thing rose. They'll never admit that they are any more than 50% to blame and that's only when they realise they can't get away with blaming us

Skype is a no-no because his face, his presence comes into your living room and invades your space, he may as well be sat on your sofa, hectoring you. If there is to be indirect contact, phone only, and he only speaks to DD. Listen to your body, forget everything else. I had very physical symptoms with FW, they have gone now. Do not even try to figure out what he is saying, what it means. Your body is talking to you, it is telling you this man makes you ill.

I think the issue is quiet that rose's dd probably copes better on Skype rather than the normal phone. She is a similar age to mine and I find dd wont talk on the phone but seeing the face makes a big difference to her. Otherwise I'd say you are totally right about not letting them into your living room that way. Perhaps rose you should see whether dd can Skype with someone else helping her so that fw does not see you at all.

My FW used to turn me into a violent angry mess of tears and confusion then accuse me of being abusive. He would never ever admit he had faults or contributed to the failure of our marriage. It took me so long to work it out I thought I was crazy! But without him I am calm happy and sane. You will be too!

I agree with Lemon, he is trying to make you look like you are to blame. They all do it. I even experienced it myself today. You begin to wonder "maybe they are right. Maybe I am difficult to live with and to blame for our relationship break down". No one is perfect and there may be elements where we contributed BUT we are not to blame for their abuse. Keep telling yourself you are a beautiful, intelligent, confident and wonderful mother who deserves calm and happiness in her life x x

Your body is talking to you, it is telling you this man makes you ill. YY quietcoach. Hope you are feeling better today, Rose.

bounty I totally understand what you are saying about Skype perhaps being easier for Rose's DD. But I think this is an instance where Rose has to to say no to something that would be better for DD but is not better for her, unless DD can Skype with someone else helping her, as you say. If he is using the Skyping opportunity to further abuse then that avenue needs to get cut off, and he loses that extra contact because of his behaviour. It's not really better for DD in the longer-term if her mum is being made ill by it. And she will get more used to talking on the phone as she gets older, it wont be long believe me once she is doing it regularly!!! I split from DS1's dad when DS was 18 months, and he phoned twice a day for about the first year. Despite the fact that DS1 couldn't talk! But I'd put it on speakerphone and DS1 would listen to his dad talk. And I refused to engage with him myself at all during the calls, it was all about DS1.

rose i am broadly in agreement about the skype.
you said the other day, he was trying to skype with DD and she was just off watching cbeebies.
he might want to skype with DD and/or talk to him on the phone but beyond saying hi, small children really don't have a lot to say on the phone or skype they are more interested in people who play with them and interact with them.

so i don't think DD really needs to skype with him that often. maybe once every few days to say hi, wave quickly and then that is it. (if at all) should not take more than a minute- they just don't have the concentration span for it.

and if he abuses it by speaking to you then treat him like the child he is and say he misses one skype session every time he does it until he gets it. but you have to be disciplined too. no chatting with him just for the sake of having someone to chat to. this man does not deserve your friendship and anything you tell him about yourself is just showing him the chinks in your armour.

this was hard lesson I learned from somewhere like baggage reclaim. Your abuser does not deserve your friendship. if you are friends with them you are giving them the message that what they did was ok. Your friends are people who love and care for you, not people who use you to meet their needs. sometimes it would be easier to be FW's friend but in the long run it is not as he always turns on me in the end.

this man does not deserve your friendship and anything you tell him about yourself is just showing him the chinks in your armour.

I need to pay more attention to this too.

Thanks for that Mink. Thats my problem. As my fw suffers depression (although he says its just a dissatisfaction with life), I somehow feel responsible as he has no one else and I feel like I am being his friend. I also asked if he thought we could work this out and reconsile. He said he didnt know and he needed some time on his own. Then I said I didnt want any false hopes and would prefer just to move on. He then said he might want to but wasnt in a good place right now. So really, i realised very quickly that I must move on in my head or this will hust drag on. Also friendship is not an option. These men need to realise what life is like when their emotional support is taken away.

Help. I have been in a panic this morning blaming myself for him ending it once and for all. FW don't do that do they? They hang on dont they? But mine has gone!

I've been doing quite well again these last few days. Today I'm realising I was jealous of the stbxw . Or was I?. I'm not sure why I was?. I met her several time briefly, she seems ok. He was a good dad in that he rang the DC every day ( lived a long way away) but I used to get a bit fed up that he spoke to her every day also, I realise many of you have young children and probably don't see the problem and there shouldn't be, like I said its me

It is me really because if he was genuinely abusive she'd want as little to do with him and he rest of his family as possible wouldn't she?

It didn't help that I didn't get invited to his sisters wedding and obviously she did and him and the kids that was last year but all these things have added up. Maybe if he'd been generally nicer I wouldn't have felt like this about stbxw situation but he obviously didn't make me feel secure. I feel a bit used but I don't really know why either. When we met he had separated all be it not for very long and after a while moved a couple of hours away to live and work where I am. He moved in but was horrible a lot of the time and hard to be with. I put it down to many huge changes for him all at once. I told him to move out and we continued to see each other for 2 years until this

God it's a horrible feeling I've got today . I think maybe he never really loved me I always felt he loved her. I sound really screwed up and horrible don't I. I just needed to get this out, sorry to go on

Have just had a thought. Many of the faults he accused me of and the phrases he used to describe me for example, it's all about you, it's all you you you, your selfish, you never listen, you don't give a shit about MY feelings. Are things he said to me when describing his stbxw . Poor woman and she has to stay in contact due to the children

Jackie my FW x has a love hate rs with his x. she will still speak to him. right now he is telling me i am making her life hard and is full of sympathy for her. but two months ago he was publicly saying he judged she were dead. (and from what i can gather she got worse than me)

And yes some of them do just cut contact if they think they have something better. then get back in touch when it goes wrong. as you have no dcs he has nothing to control you with so there is not much leverage there fir him.

But look at it this way, even if he was not abusive (he was) it does not matter to your situation. he is gone. you are better off even though it may not seem that way. you need to move forwards.

God have just remembered when I was off sick with severe anxiety and had a GP appointment to discuss he insisted on coming with me even into the GPs room. I'm thinking now his may have been to control what was said. He did the same with a hospital appointment I had at around the same time I was in a real state. On the way though he really broke me down in he car with an argument and I was sobbing then he switched to being really loving before we saw the doctor. I suppose he could have done it out of concern. Maybe I'm the horrible one reading bad motives into everything

I know mink and I feel I am definately making progress in moving forward. Yesterday I felt a strange feeling, I think it was happiness and contentment . So I am getting there. I slip back and I find it helps to remind myself of the shit things he's done so its clear in my mind. I just doubt myself sometimes

Jackie not all FW's hang on. Colin's didn't. But you may find he tries to get you back at some point, because life without you isn't as easy as he thought - it's all about what's easiest for him.
Often, I found the things my FW was accusing me of being like were what he was actually doing. So really, it was your FW who was being selfish, not giving a shit about your feelings etc, and he was assuming you were doing the same - because his behaviour was normal, so surely that's what everyone does?

mink is right. Try to move forward from him. Do what you can for yourself.

Wished she was dead not judged. Bernard!

As Lundy say a FW looks in the mirror, sees his face is dirty and cleans the mirror. they are most likely to accuse you of the very things they do themselves. mine was always accusing me of being selfish and mean. this from the man who says he cannot afford to see his own dcs. they are hypocrites writ very large.

What do you ladies make of my fw saying he is confused and doesnt know what he wants? When i suggest that he seeks help and that I want to move on if there he is no hope, he just says he doesnt know what he wants. Thats hes confused and he needs time on his own to sort his self. He is so depressed (and always has been) but wont get medical support. He is iving me the message that he wants to come back to me and the kids but once he helps ims self. I have said that i am just going to act like there is no hope and move on. I cant deal with mixed messages right now.

Rose - I didn't want to read and run as I must do some work stop Mumsnetting but I just wanted to say that I'll post properly later to reply to you (and you too Flora) - but I just wanted to say - you are not letting anyone down. It is very early days. I still chat to my FW too much at handovers because I miss him, but it lets him sneak into my life in small ways and I always end up regretting it. I've had an incident of that over this weekend, and I'm kicking myself. And I've been out over a year. But I will just try harder from here on in.

You are doing amazing. Take it a day at a time. And turn your music up to 11.

Flora It is his problem. he is his problem. if he gets help and sorts himself out and then and only then comes back to you and wins you over then all well and good. but he has no right to ask you to wait for him.
don't wait for him you could wait your whole life.

it is all just part of the spaghetti head and him trying to drag you into his problems. he is trying to hook you into the possibility of fixing him.

and remember above all- this is not about how he feels. he is not abusive because he feels depressed. he is abusive because he thinks he is entitled to treat you badly. so unless what he says he is going to change is the way he thinks because he now realises that what he believed was wrong, he will not change. he may get over his depression, he may be happier. he will be a happier abuser.

ignore, ignore, ignore some more.