Is this worth pursuing?

[maryclarey]

I'm sorry - this is long. I'll try to be succinct. I just need some perspective.

A few months ago I started seeing someone having just ended a long term relationship. We both agreed it was casual at the beginning, meeting just for sex. I would go to his place (I was staying on a friends sofa bed at the time) and go home that night. He didn't want a relationship and neither did I. That was fine, for a while. I started to have some feelings but I kept them in check as I didn't want to get too close.

Things started to change a little, in that I started staying overnight at his invitation and we would spend time talking about our lives rather than just having sex.

Around the time I moved into my own place I decided to take a risk and ask him on a real date. He said he was comfortable with that but jokingly said he might freak out if I asked him to move in or something. I said he didn't need to worry about that at this point (for goodness sake!). We were both nervous on the date but it was lovely.

A few dates and weeks later he turned up at my place late one night telling me how much he liked being with me and how he hadn't slept with anyone else since we met. I didn't really respond much because he was a bit drunk at the time and I was a bit caught off guard and didn't know how to take it. However we kept seeing each other, having a really good time and started alternating staying at his place and mine, going on proper dates and not always having sex, just being quietly comfortable in each others company. We didn't talk about that night again.

I've met his brother who he lives with, and he's met my best friends who I live with. We have socialised with both. We haven't met any other of our groups of friends. He has told his work mates about me and I have told mine about him (our companies are linked). He's agreed to come to a work function with me, no hesitation.

We now spend practically every weekend together, it's grown to three nights a week if we are both in town. He takes me to nice places and seems proud to be seen with me. I feel the same way.

I started to feel I needed to know if we were heading somewhere. Unfortunately I decided to raise this at 4am when we had both been out drinking. I thought I asked him if he saw me as a potential girlfriend when or if that time came, he thought I was asking if he saw me as his girlfriend right now. He said no. He said he is enjoying what we have and how we are getting to know each other now and he wants to see where things go. He got quite upset, talking about how when he moves in with someone it'll be the person he wants to marry. I asked who had even mentioned moving in? He really jumped the gun but as I say, we had been drinking. Next morning we talked a little more. I cleared up the misunderstanding about my question the night before but made it clear I don't want to get hurt again, waiting around for something that might never happen (as in my last relationship). He said he understood but he wants to take things slow, by which I took to mean he felt I was rushing him. He had to leave for work then, he was concerned I was still a bit upset, gave me a hug, kissed me several times and left.

We are affectionate in public and he holds my hand and is a gentleman in general. He has passed the waitress test with flying colours and is generous and kind to all. He has a great relationship with his family. However, he has told me how he has ended relationships in the past because he realised when they started talking about moving in together that he didn't want to marry them, so he called them off. He did live with one partner and from what I gather it ended badly, which may be where his fear of commitment stems from, I don't know.

So my question is, dear mumsnetters, am I wasting my time or should I give him some time to see if it goes anywhere? I don't want to be a mug but I don't want to let something potentially good slip through my fingers.

Apologies for the epic length of this post!

TIA

We met on a night out through work Missbopeep. I'd known of him before but never had much to do with him. It was a ONS initially, we kept in touch and decided to meet again, with the agreement it would be casual. So much for that!

Good girl. But whatever happens know yourself- you don't sound like the sort of person who really wants FWB. If what you really want is a relationship then at least be honest with you.

Because whatever the outcome with this guy, if you set out telling a man you just want sex he'll lap it up usually, and if you want more then that's changing the terms- and he doesn't have to agree to that.

x-post! Good luck anyway .

i think it sounds like your over-reacting and need to chill out and enjoy how your time together is developing without over thinking it and trying to attach labels. and i think that's all he was saying tbh

Thank you, its been good to get such good advice.

Its not the first time I've been told I should chill out notanymore I do have a tendency to overthink!

*notanyanymore

we all do it!
Its that tricky business of trying not to relive past mistakes/hurt, and trying not to over do it and let your fears ruin something new.

Agreed and if I've seemed hard on you it's only because I've made all those mistakes myself.

Not at all. Its given me the perspective I needed.

Scarlett2i4, if you are still reading, thanks for posting that. It's very apt for me.

Thank you Scrazy. Had a quick look... mustn't get addicted for heaven's sake!
I'm glad it was of some use to somebody. But I'm no mind reader and have made huge blunders myself when it comes to human relationships.

Scarlett- sorry but I think your post is way off beam. It's the type of thing might dad who's pushing 90 would write. The idea that a man should be in love with you before you have sex and that giving him sex without a declaration saves him from masturbating ( surprised you didn't use the term 'self abuse') or paying for it.
Then to suggest the OP withholds sex on the pretext of being hurt before by a man who 'only wanted one thing'.
Are you as old as you sound?

It sounds a wee bit like he is keeping his options open!

crapartist I feel your pain being on the dating scene myself after some turbulent times.

BUT I would say that he is being nice and respectful.

AND you obviously fancy him.

AND even though you want a relationship with him eventually, it sounds like now is the time to have fun together and let things unfold. It doesn't all have to happen at once.

So how about give yourself 2 more weeks of fun with him (or whatever you can handle) and then if you are still tying yourself up in knots take action.

Don't feel like you have to pretend he doesn't mean anything if he does. He will totally respect your honesty and you will feel better not trying to resist it.

You're quite right, Missbopeep, I'm far from young but not quite as old as 90! The only thing I'd say is that the situation isn't quite what you are describing. This guy has had lots of sex already and seems to expect it almost as routine with the lady. Without being cynical it's little wonder he's being very nice to her! Only a fool wouldn't. I only suggested what I did because she gave me the impression that she was worried that this was maybe all he was after in the end and couldn't fathom how he was truly feeling about her.
I met a woman once who told me she waited and waited, but no commitment ever came in spite of sex on tap, and she had to give up in the end, having wasted several years of her life hoping he'd marry her. He would have been quite happy to continue forever, it seems, and remain a free, uncommitted man.
It's a fact that giving a man sex does save him from what I mentioned. These are his only alternatives. One thing you're very wrong about though is your surprise at my not using the term 'self abuse'. Men never look at it that way! No man I've ever met or heard of anyway. It must be extremely unusual, maybe a monk perhaps? I think it's probably only some women who seem to feel a bit guilty about it, a minority, of course.
I think my only reason - as far as I can understand myself! - for hanging around here is only because I myself have a question or a strange and depressing situation to describe and ask what others think about it. Once I've got it out of my system I'll stop looking at a board intended for women. I've felt bad about looking at it at all. I just came on it by chance a few weeks ago.

Scarlett, don't feel bad for posting. It was a male view and you weren't saying anything against the general grain.

As for withholding sex. Lots of my female friends tell me to stop sleeping with the guy that I'm in a similar set up with. (Great times, together etc but he doesn't want to commit and likes his freedom) So it's not just old fashioned advice.

Scarlett- there are enough women out there who can satisfy most men's needs without needing any sign of commitment from the man. Yours is a very old fashioned view- ie that women only want commitment and men only want sex. There are some women who want sex and no commitment. There are websites for example where anyone can find a fuck buddy or a friend with benefits. Paying for sex or masturbation ( self relief as you quaintly call it) are not the only options you know!

Do you really expect women to withhold sex until a man commits to them? Or in the case of the OP, are you really saying she should don her chastity belt and shout 'enough!' unless he gets down on bended knee?

For goodness' sake move into the 21stC.

Missbopeep - there are certainly plenty of women who are willing to satisfy the needs of men who are average to tall - especially tall! - and reasonably good looking and self confident with it. But for those under average in height - I don't mean tiny - just a bit below the average, and/or who are not very good looking, and with all that, naturally, can go a lack of self confidence, well, life can be very very different from what you describe! They can end up having quite a struggle to find any love or sex from a woman at all, commitment or no commitment.
So the options I mentioned can be all that's available to them. This applies right now in this century and was always true, even thousands of years ago, I'd say.
I'm not the worst but I'm not tall and have been forced, time and time again, to realise how very important a man's height is to most women. Nor do I have a chip on my shoulder about it but it's just a fact. But it's also very understandable why it is so important to them so I don't blame them in the least.
Please don't imagine for one minute that all men find it easy, no matter how many dating and fuck buddy sites there are out there. You're mostly talking about the lucky ones, lucky to have had the right parents! Just think how many men you'd reject yourself almost immediately and you'll see what I mean.

As for the OP, well, maybe she'd just like to know, out of curiosity at least, what his reaction would be if he didn't get precisely what he wanted every single time, for a month or so?
If she gets too emotionally entangled with him and is hoping and hoping, but still there is little sign from him except being very nice and polite and all that... well, it could end up being torture and misery for her like when you get a serious wound.In other words, bloody hell! She needs to get some sign fairly soon that he is feeling the same about her, or starting to. It's a case of emotional self-protection and preservation of sanity, I feel.

Scarlett- I think you are projecting far too much of your own issues onto the OP and I don't want to keep going over old ground. I think the OP received some great advice that she said was helpful. I don't think your idea of withdrawing sexual favours to force his hand re. commitment is a good one, for all kinds of reasons.

If you think you have had problems attracting women due to your statue- and you say you are not really short- then I'd guess it's not really about your height at all. Women are not really as into tall ( or average) height men as much as you'd like to think.

You've now introduced another topic and although you are very welcome on MN ( all men are) it might be best to start your own thread about your own issues- including the parenting you had which is still clearly something that affects you now- because your input IMO is becoming off topic.

As for parenting, I was only referring to genes! I am under average height but not unusually so. As for the OP, as you say, she's had lots of good advice now. Thanks for replying to me.

Gosh, Scarlett, you are a funny onion aren't you

Am I? I thought I was just a man who's strayed onto dangerous territory and had better get away before I step on a mine!
I will, but after I've asked for opinions about something. Maybe I'll get torn to ribbons and not believed..! I'll just have to see, and if so, just too bad. Either way, I'll get quickly away from here before I get killed...!.

Missbopeep, very patronising... We women are weird creatures. We get a man's point of view on a plate here, and we reject it, because it doesn't suit us and we believe we can change man's nature. Ha-ha-ha. Scarlett is very right to withdraw now and no wonder most men don't venture into our hen-shed - they don't want to spill the beans which make them get free sex, do they? And then, look at all the threads - he did that, he is a wanker, he is abusive. A lot of times it is because we allow it. Not all cases, but many. And understanding male nature would help us not fall into such avoidable scenarios.

Way to go, Scarlett!

It's one man's view Val....and all it does is say how he perceives 'easy' sex and commitment.

I've heard it all before. From my dad. He brought me up to believe that the only way to get & keep a man was not to give him sex , so he'd take me to the altar before he, well..took me :)