Waves is determined to keep winning now that Acrobat has arrived.

[wavesandsmiles]

So, Acrobat did actually arrive (only just) on the last thread. And he is here and lovely!

Links to previous threads:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/a1670597-So-DH-said

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/1745551-DH-said-DH-left-waves-is-still-being-sick-but-into-the-third-timester

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/a1801734-Waves-is-winning-Here-comes-the-Acrobat

You're already an excellent mum .

I had a baby 9 weeks ago and my HV said don't even think about a routine until after 6 weeks, don't stress about what your HV says too much.

Your hv sounds like she doesn't really have any idea of what she's talking about.

Except you ARE an excellent mum!

It's all very well your HV saying get him in a routine but babies don't actually know the meaning of that word.

You know that you need to back off again from your mum, don't you. You have given an inch and, predictably, she has taken a mile, and will continue to do so.

I think you need to stop wondering what is wrong with twunt and why this all happened. I know that sounds harsh, but spending time wondering and considering is actually wasted time. He is what he is. He will bumble through life doing the same thing over and over to anyone he can. Best he is out of your life and out of your thoughts.

So lovely that you have your cousin for help and support.

Phone typing... I'm NOT allowing TB to take DS1 and DD tomorrow and have sent her a text confirming that.....

He's now sleeping on my knee so no chores for now!

Did I mention before FOG? Fear, Obligation, Guilt, regarding toxic parents (& spouses!) Once you let go of that you are free! Sounds to me like you are 99% there.

The last 1% is really believing that twunt IS TOTALLY RESPONSIBLE FOR & IN CONTROL OF HIS ACTIONS & NOT A VICTIM OF HIS "PAST" IN ANY WAY!

Even if Twunt's problems are due to terrible issues in his previous life (which I don't believe for a moment) they are still not your problem they are his. If he wants to admit that he is a crap person for x,y and z reasons then it is his duty to seek help, not to take it out on the people around him.

Your HV sounds shocking. My DDs didn't develop a routine until they were about 4 months and even then it was led by them and we just tweaked it a little. Demand feeding is definitely the way to go. A friend of mine (who is very lovely and I still get on with her but we don't agree on everything) once asked me when 3 mo DD2 needed a feed 'You're not still demand feeding, are you?', to which I replied 'No, I just like to air my boobs out regularly'. She never said anything again, bless her.

By my reckoning you're now dealing with the 10 day growth spurt so you can expect Caspian not to sleep much and to want loads of feeding. It will settle, and then there's the 3 week one, the 6 week one (which is horrendous), the 12 week one and the 16 week one (which is killer). And so on. But you will cope, because you are fantastic.

Thanks for the reassurance re HV, am just about to try to get my head down after feeding for pretty much 5 hours solid! I'm going to demand feed and ignore her advice!

Fingers crossed I get at least an hour of sleep now

Babies do have a routine - its just that its not remotely connected to any known method of measuring time.... Eat, sleep, poo, eat, eat a bit more, poo, sleep... My HV was lovely - but she didn't help in anyway - and the best visit was the one where she said 'I won't make another appointment for you, just drop in if you have any worries or want him weighed' and left me to it

Well done on the text to TB. And the discussions re the party - she can arrange it if she wants, but you don't need to turn up if it doesn't suit you

If twunt has problems, they're his problems and they don't need to be yours any more.

I agree with MT (Surprise! ) - DS2 had his own routines but he ran to a 26/7 hour day, not 24. Makes it a little harder!
Best book I ever read was How Not To Be a Perfect Mum by Libby Purves. It's basically a manual for benign neglect, I think and allowed me to enjoy the "routine-free" time with both DS1 and DS2 (not quite so easy).

Now this:
"Part of me still believes that deep down he is good, but that he has some major major problems which have got in the way. And I feel bad for him if he can't address those as he will never be happy, and I also realise that he has lost out hugely in losing me, whatever he says to his RL "friends" on Facebook about me. He knows he is making half of it up, and if they believe him, well, I guess I was guilty of that too, as I believed what he said about his ex having all these online affairs, and maybe she didn't. But at what stage do you disbelieve someone as a first instinct?"

I had an ex, who I knew from a young age. He had a troubled family background, his Dad was a real one for putting him down all the time, his Mum had her own issues - it gave him the perfect excuse to behave like an utter cunt and I would try to excuse him because of what I knew about his upbringing and family.
MASSIVE mistake. LOTS of people (including you!) have troubled family backgrounds - it doesn't make them all pathological liars with enormous chips on their shoulders that direct them to take-take-take and do whatever they like regardless of who it hurts. It took me a while to get past this; and to stop making excuses for him. I could construct whole scenarios around his lies to validate them; even when presented with 100% evidence that they were lies, I'd still find a way to excuse them.
I needed counselling to rebuild myself after this relationship ended - partly because I couldn't believe that I had been suckered in so badly! I still don't exactly know what drew me to him, but he was a classic EA - told me how much he'd always loved me, wanted to move in straight away, said he wanted to have babies with me within 3 months - so much shit.

Just going to repost your last point again:
"But at what stage do you disbelieve someone as a first instinct?"
Answer: every time he says anything, whether verbally or by text/email.

I know you're all loved up with Caspian, and part of you wants to share the joy with his sperm donor, but PLEASE remind yourself that he googled late abortions. That he abused you emotionally while you were sick and pregnant. That he allowed his sons to behave like little shits when all you needed was rest. This is someone who has NO "deep down goodness". There is no diamond in this particular bag of shit, he's shit all the way down.

In fact, it would be advisable for you to write down a list of all the truly bad things he did to you and print it out - keep one on your fridge, one on your mirror, one by your pillow. Remind yourself of how bad he actually was - because THAT is the true picture. That is who he IS.

Btw - agree completely ignore HV's advice. Utter bollocks! Of course you should demand feed. Of course there is foremilk & hindmilk. Of course Caspian will have different feeding patterns on different days for loads of reasons! Just go with the flow (literally!) as you have been & you will be doing the best for him.

Read the Lundy Bancroft book again if you can keep your eyes open Remember none of the angry & controlling men he worked for many years with had any excuse or justification for their behaviour. They were able to be "nice" to everyone else & made a choice to treat their partners/exes the way they did.

So glad you have told TB she can't take your DC. Hopefully she will rein it in a bit now.

It's such a shame that their are still HVs etc out their spouting this nonsense. Not so bad for you waves because you're an experienced mum, but for a first time mum that would have been so confusing and potentially caused her to stop bf or to change to a stressful feeding regime, which would be such a shame. As it is, you know that the alternative to demand feeding is having a baby that screams when s/he is hungry until the clock says it is feed time. Utter madness.

Waves I know you think he is basically good, deep down, but it is not your responsibility to find that good and expose it! He is his own responsibility; it's not up to you to 'fix' him.

Glad you are standing up to your mum - sounds like she is gradually getting back to her old ways.

imo one doesn't disbelieve, more hold off judgement. someone tells you a story, you really have no way of knowing whether it's true or not. It's important to hold back when a relationship is new, I think (not just romantic relationships imo). Let time tell the tale. It's not that you're distrusting, you're getting to know the person, and people are complex. You can support someone without necessarily believing (or disbelieving) their story imo.

I agree that there is no poor flaw in him that has caused him to behave like this. It is bog standard abuse - they do it because they can. There are any number of ways he could have processed his past. He chose to spin you along and then, when the proof of the pudding was needed, it became clear what he was really about. He's a shit through and through, waves - no poor, sad story behind him that makes him be a shit. I've a poor, sad story behind me and I don't behave like that, I'm not cruel and self-seeking, self-absorbed, self-obsessed, insisting my needs are met above all else. And neither are you. He has been unbelievably cruel to you waves and it isn't because he has a difficult past, it's because he's cruel.

Glad to hear you are keeping up the boundaries with pouty, spoilt TB. Blardy well done

No no no no no no no no no no.

Whatever twunt went through in his life DOES NOT explain or excuse the despicable and disgraceful way he has treated you and your children. He has treated you like crap because he wanted too.

You feel it is because he had a shit upbringing or whatever because you are a decent person who tries to see the best in everyone because you always do your best and assume everyone else will too.

Ignore the HV. She is talking bollocks and even if she wasn't Caspian is your baby so YOU get to decide what happens.

"We were all straight up and out for a newborn photo session which lasted over 4 hours (my heart dropped a bit when I saw how expensive it is to actually buy any photos after!)"

I have vaguely followed your thread and think you are doing amazingly well. Not prepared to offer any relationship advice but, on a practical note, if it is a company like "Venture" where the session is very cheap but the photos are very expensive afterwards, beware! They try to emotionally blackmail you into spending more than you can afford on very poorly framed photos (even if the photos themselves are good) and even offer (expensive) finance. They are so concerned about you cheaply copying the pictures that they glue them on to the crap cheap frames so you cannot even reframe them.

We ended up being suckered into this but I am quite tough so only bought two smallish pics (which were still circa £200-250). If I get family pics again, I will pay for studio (or home) time with a proper photography studio, where the pics are still expensive but a fraction of the cost of a company such as Venture, and I retain far more control over the process.

Just a diversion, but hopefully a useful and practical one.

"Point is, I don't believe that either twunt or TB are anywhere near that stage of taking responsibility for their reactions."

And there is your totally 100% justified reason to keep both well away from you and your children for as long as you want.

My children have a very small family and have no one at all on my side for reasons I won't bore you with and they are fine. They ask the odd question but that is all and it is not an issue. They don't miss out. They have my husband's parents but I would walk away without a second thought even though they love them if they ever did anything else to hurt them or put them in danger.

Just because this woman gave birth to you doesn't mean you owe her anything and blood is NOT thicker than water if it means your children are being exposed to anything you don't want them too.

There is NOTHING to stop you packing up your little family and taking the job you were head hunted for and leaving the island without looking back....

I am delurking here & quoting MissStrawberry

"There is NOTHING to stop you packing up your little family and taking the job you were head hunted for and leaving the island without looking back...."

I was born & came back to live on the other rock(the one a bit S of you!) for a few years as an adult. DH loathed it & we came back to the mainland. Best thing we ever did.

Oh waves your mother, what next. Smacking is her approach to correcting their behaviour? Quite the reverse of how you handle discipline. Overreaching herself yet again.
If DD hadn't been asking you would have been oblivious. She would assume from her grandmother's actions that it would be okay smacking her little brother. And TB resents you not giving her access at the drop of a hat .

HV, nod and smile, ignore.

Yes... response to HV - "yes, he's settling nicely into a routine and is both feeding and sleeping well, thanks." No need to specify what the routine is.

larry forgot to say the photos you mentioned nearly always look fabulous - and so they should as they cost a king's ransom! Agree with you, tempting to track down an alternative.

they're 'not anywhere near', and they also DON'T INTEND to be anywhere near. imo.

You, waves, want to improve, you want to take responsibility, learn new ways to approach life in a way that works. some people have NO INTENTION of improving, working on things etc. They are willfully blind - denial, I think they call it...

Which ALSO ISN'T AN EXCUSE. There is no excuse, especially these days with our culture bulging at the seams with support, instruction, advice about how to manage difficulties, past and present.

Perhaps one overhang from your (clearly toxic) upbringing is that you have learned to minimise. so, TB smacks your kids... waves , that is a big no-no. BIG! Especially as your lo is asking when it will be appropriate to smack the baby. waves that is horrifying - can you see that for what it is?

Fuck what others say and think. Who GIVES a fuck what ignorant people have to say or what ignorant people think about your history - I know you agree with this; but ime there can be a residual shame about previous MH excesses? YOu (and I, as it happens) know what we went through ( and was it surprising with the upbringing we've had?? ) and how we clawed our way back up the rockface to health.

Mind you, I do think the 'work' presented to one after a toxic childhood is a lifelong thing. Which may not be as intense all the way along but it's something we have to watch and maintain for the rest of our lives imo. One of the ways to protect our MH is, imo, to remove ourselves from toxic relationships. You've done that to a degree but perhaps a move may help that along the road iyswim.

I agree Springy. Also about the fall out from childhood probably being a lifelong thing. Rears its head at times of stress.

Ouch about TB :(

And what odd HV advice. That sort of thing can put any mum in a tizz, especially a first time mum (as I experienced with my own rubbish first HV) so I'm glad you can see what's right and wrong with whatever she said.