Support for those in Emotionally Abusive relationships: 24

[foolonthehill]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
a check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violenceAre you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

what couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
should I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

Thanks foxgloves . TBH it's hard to describe, I wouldn't say it wasn't consensual I got mine lol but something has shifted. We've always been quite rough () but it felt like there was love there somewhere. Now it just feels 'nasty'. On sunday, for example, he started using dirty talk (unlike him anyway) about wanting to get another person into bed with us. Pure fantasy, but odd for him nonetheless. Our sex life took a nosedive after DD was born (she's nearly 3), when I realised he didn't respect me, and its gone downhill from there.

Totally agree about boundaries of consent getting blurred - there's been many times down the years when I've just let him have sex on me rather than being actively involved. It's a tricky topic. I have Lundy but havn't read the bit you describe - will dig it out and take a look.

Feels odd to be having this discussion at this time of day .

Rose, apologies I don't know your story, are you a student? Without wishing to out myself - I work at a uni so when I got counselling last year I had it from the university counsellor. She was amazing and of course the sessions were free. I say go for it, anything to help give you that little bit of clarity in the old grey matter which will do wonders

Posting in Relationships can be tough, but try posting about your relationship in AIBU as I did first time round, now THAT is an eye opener.

I had the same worries about counselling too bounty, I thought FW would go down the 4 route, but it became 2 and 3. More 2 than 3, I felt terribly unsupported by the Relate counsellor. From what you say, it sounds like your FW wil be more of a 2 and 3 man too, generally I don't think they're really clever enough to be 4 in that situation. I hope it goes ok, be sure to keep a guard up.

Fi, hope your DD is ok and you both catch up on some sleep soon.

FFF, fingers crossed you come out of SIL's party unscathed!

bounty I think if number 4 is your biggest fear, then you have a lot of information for yourself.

thank you Nini sorry to hear the latest non-consensual dirty-talking and blurring boundaries trashed boundaries. ((hugs)) its horrible feeling for sure ... xxx

also better for your wishes,thank you .. I hope you are having a relatively FW free time of it... sorry all .. not had chance to go back through, been very remiss on that recently xxx

DD slept from about 11:30 last night right through till about 8 this morning!!! yay! result

Glad you had a good sleep fi I had car trouble this morning, he is never usually a FW so I will let him off ... the real FW issues are on hold but will be resurfacing in problably two to three weeks - enjoying a very short break from it all thanks and so is DS - he sadly doesn't know that the FW issues will be coming back on line, I am leaving it as long as possible to tell him the bad news. Just hope it is the final hurdle for a long while.
Wishing everyone a FW Free Friday xx

FFS, so much for being amicable. He's being a real FW and passive aggressive as well. It's all poor poor him, everything is so hard for him. No, it's not. He's MAKING it hard maybe, but he's got it easy! I'm going to sort out seeing a solicitor next week if possible, even if it means taking the DCs along.

I can't go into details, but he is trying to do the control thing by using visits to maintain it. And I am not playing that game.

sorry... believe me when I say I could do a serious epic rant right now but what would be the point. I'd still be angry, he'd still be a FW, and the DCs would still be upset.

I will have to go back now and read to catch up. It's been a nightmare this week!

I guess, Nini, if it was a normal relationship and things started happening in the bedroom that you weren't comfortable with, you would be able to say so, and be listened to.
My first ever MN post was in Relationships, about FW in the early days of us, asking for advice on how to work the 'blended' family dynamic that seemed to be troublesome. Instead of advice, I got LTB, to the nth degree. I got so scared by the reaction I received that I had my thread deleted, changed my NN and fled for ages! Some stuff that was posted was v v hurtful and unnecessary. But some of it was on the money, and I guess somewhere I knew that because I quietly came back (to lurk only), especially on this thread.
I am too chicken to post in AIBU ever, about anything!!!

Fi glad DD slept well. xx to you both.

I am also enjoying a break from my FW, since he's on his holidays. It does feel different, knowing I wont have to see him at all for over a week still. Saw a friend last night who said she could visibly see a difference in me. (I told her it was all down to my statement ring channeling inner strength! ) I am starting to feel like I am coming out of the woods, like I have options again, and opportunities.

Also, my boy came home today! He's been away with his dad on holiday, gone for just over 2 weeks. He looks like a different boy, he's all tanned and his hair is blonder! But he's back, me and DS2 are v pleased to have him home. Now, wonder how long before the bickering starts between them???

Alice - the point of you ranting on here means at least you can get it out your system. Come back and do it later when you are DC-free, you need that venting. Def go for the solicitor.

Hello! hello! I just wanted to check I could be heard iyswim as have started at least 5 conversations with FW to which his response has been . . . .nothing, absolutely no acknowledgement that I had spoken. They weren't 'big' conversations about us, just chatting and it drives me mad that he doesn't respond at all. He'd been trying so hard to be nice today too - thoughtful gifts, etc. Of course that's why I forgot he was a FW and tried to have normal conversations with him. Aargh! Almost hoovered in again.
pony glad your boy is home safe and well
Alice I know ranting sometimes feels like it doesn't help but at least it gives you a record.
It's so hot and sticky here but I'm going to try to have a vaguely early night. Sending you all lots of wishes for a sunny and FW-free weekend.

nini, I think the point about rough, or kinky, or exploring things, whatever they may be, is that this is all fine in the context of a relatively equal, mutually supportive, loving and communicative relationship, where you talk about what you are comfortable with and the other person respects that.
But if you don't have respect, and you don't have equality (of views, opinion, value) then the same things can become nasty, and you are right, what you describe is nasty. It is about power and how that is being demonstrated through sex. So, the dirty talk makes you uncomfortable, but it is also intended, I think, to make you feel insecure . Which, if you did not recognise it and already realise what was going on, could make you feel like you should participate in other things which make you feel uncomfortable and you did not want to. It is also threatening, because he is fantasising about bringing someone else into your personal space, in a scenario he presumably controls.
Sorry, if that is a bit much, but I think you are right, basically.

fi just sending good wishes. Hope dd gets better soon.

And quick waves to everyone else, including the visible, audible winnie.

Oh yes, and pony enjoy your ds being back!

We're here and hearing, Winnie

fox that's all very insightful. Well put.

Well, on a lighter note, I have a tension headache due to impending fwittery so I went to get some paracetamol. There is only one left which made me remember that FW always only gave me one if I asked him to get me one, and looked at me as if I was an addict if I took another or took two myself. I just read the packet and it says take two. TWO. So, in the absence of a second one, I have necked some Calpol. Oh, the rebellion.

fox love your calpol taking, I do that in emergencies - what a FW only giving you one.. how controlling.
Pony have fun with the DC now you are all together.
Just when I was having a FW free time - I get the latest solicitors bill. It is 10 TIMES the total amount that FW has provided for DS in all these years and none of those little payments have been voluntary it is the third bill too not sure I can pay any more - he gets a free house, car, spending money and legal fees and sits on his lazy ass all the time. It is so wrong. Rant over. alice he is trying to wear you down - he is a FW - you need a break from it - rant away. I'm right on the rant stand with you today.

Hello all, found you again.
I recorded last night's tirade (at 3 am).
Going to pay it back to him today and if he thinks it's Okto talk to me like that in the cold light of day.

(Basically as we haven't had sex for 3 weeks I shouldn't have gone to see a friend last night. He was out drinking with mates. I dropped him off, picked up and played taxi at 2am, plus had done a load of house work before I went round a friends to watch a film for a couple of hours. In the interest of disclosure the friend was male which I'm sure didn't help. But even so the logic of his argument sucks).

Once he is up I have to provide full and acceptable reasons why we haven't had sex for 3 weeks (cos he picks a fight every week and I don't wanna sleep with him after) and reasons why I thought it was Ok to see my friend.

skating can you make two copies before you play it to him? That way if he deletes the one you are playing to him, you still have one on record. Also try to prepare yourself for him not acknowledging he is wrong and instead turning it all on to you - take care .
fox yy to the rationing of paracetamol! FW does not take any medication (except when he needs it - isn't that when most people take it?! ) Consequently whenever I have a tension headache/migraine he huffs and puffs if I take anything. I hope your headache is better today.

skating hope the recording shocks him and makes him realise how horrible he is being. I admit I did this once with H, and while he seemed shaken up initially, within a day or two, it was old news and he was right back to normal. And - you have to provide reasons? play the recording for him again - that's your reason.

winnie and better I know, ranting is a good way to let it out as well as putting it all down somewhere. I do log all this stuff though, so I have that.

My minirant - He cancelled visitation then last minute decided he wanted it, after we'd made plans to do something else (involving other people). I refused to cancel new plans and he's annoyed. I also pointed out that on previous visits, he's been abusive and nasty, so we need to discuss making changes to visitation, as it's obviously not working as it is. He wasn't happy with that either. He can't deal with this so will contact me when he "is ready." I don't know if that means when he's ready to see DCs or what. So I'm going to make plans just as if there is no visitation and if he gets stroppy, I'll remind him that he wanted to be left alone until he is ready. FW.

Alice you are absolutely right to stick to the plans you made after he cancelled. He is trying to mess you about, and you are not letting him (or at least minimising how it affects you). He wont like that at all!

better that's so upsetting at all the money being paid to solicitors. It just doesn't seem fair.

fox hope it goes ok today.

Skating Keep your 'evidence' for you. Your strength lies in knowing it is wrong for you. All the looking to him in the world will not get you the answers you need? Facing abusers with the truth will not elicit sudden [real] acknowledgement or bring your hopes and dreams to fruition sadly.

I wish! Your strength is in you knowing you hate it and cannot live with it? So for your horrible and very late night.

yy Alice I recognise that one! well done, you've done everything right here. Just because he has over-entitled expectations doesn't mean that affects anything you're right . Sounding like you have firm boundaries in place in your life! (oooo... he won't like that!)

nice one with the calpol gulping fab ! ha ha! Treating you like a little child counting out the medicine.. grrr... silly arse - thanks for your thoughts hun xx

and Pony thanks its like a wonderful sound bath hearing your wonderful update ! magic ring, magic you! xxx

How does he get free house? car? and money? Better solicitors bills ... grrr. .. horrible, so sorry.. i swing between thinking more than a bit resentfully about having to put money into that situation, and then thinking it will be the best money I ever spent?!?! Sorry to hear bills so huge tho.

dd is definitely doing better now, lots xxx

Fi glad DD is doing lots better.

Skating I think I agree with Fi, that playing him the rant will not do any good, it will in fact end up turned back against you in some way.

Well he finally showed his face so I played the recording. Also confronted him with the record of "incidents" I had been writing down for a couple of months. I got "can't believe you recoded that" and "I didn't say that" (yes you did I wrote it down) but other than that no respond. Just silence. I'm off to sit in the sun and read a book.

Hope some of you find chance to enjoy some sunshine

Please be careful skating - people who live (and rewrite) their own reality can react very badly when confronted with actual reality.

Thanks Alice.

i agree with alice so true. my fw ex gets really nasty if hes brought out of his dream world where everything works his way