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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Relationships

Support for those in Emotionally Abusive relationships: 24

999 replies

foolonthehill · 10/07/2013 19:58

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
a check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violenceAre you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin


Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!




Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

what couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
should I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

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bountyicecream · 10/07/2013 22:16

I think "piss off" might be level 2 on the how to talk to a FW course Grin

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AliceDoesntLiveHereAnymore · 10/07/2013 22:21

Maybe I'll have my friend of the "piss off" advice be here for next visit. Grin

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Bumpstarter · 10/07/2013 22:23

Hi everyone. Marking place. Still in limbo. Had massive discussion about who is going to pay off the debt on our joint account. Took the dc for a lovely weekend camping together. Sweet and sour. What flavour do I really want life to be?

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foolonthehill · 10/07/2013 22:35

You want SWEET...how are you going to get there?

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bountyicecream · 10/07/2013 22:36

bump it is the lovely weekends together that so confuse the mind. But it is fairly easy to be nice and easy going for a weekend. It is the day-to-day life that really tells you what flavour life will be. I think the nice weekend away stuff is almost done on purpose just to reel us back in enough to keep hoping for change. They give us a snapshot of how we would like life to be, but it never actually will be like that. Just need to make myself believe that. Every time we have a 'nice' time I find it harder to leave.

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foolonthehill · 10/07/2013 22:43

Just in case anyone is in doubt:

child contact
This is always and only for the benefit of the child NOT the parent(s)

As the resident parent you have the duty to keep your DC safe...and the right to stop or alter contact if it is not safe or healthy for them. The non resident parent (NRP) has the right to challenge this through court via a contact order...or you may choose to negotiate personally, via a solicitor or through mediation.

If you are deemed to be placing your child(ren) in danger then you (we) are at fault....never mind that it is their Dad who is dangerous. This is the law...use it to bolster your resolve if you need to.

Remember that abuse including violence increases after leaving or attempting to leave the relationship in 79% of cases. Be prepared, stay safe and keep an open mind about what contact is safe and appropriate after you leave, remember he may not act the same as he did before you left....with you or the children

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TheSilveryPussycat · 10/07/2013 22:51

Charlotte of course you can say no - but don't do it yet. If pressed, you are thinking about it.

And do think about it. Think about what you want, for you and the DCs. Really imagine living the summer you want - which may include time on your own. That is your starting point, getting it clear in your own mind, and meanwhile not telling him anything about your thinking.

Only when you've got to this point start thinking about possible ways of factoring in FW's contact with DCs. Including taking into account as a priority your own (and DCs) convenience, with his convenience much much lower down the list.

Disclaimer: did not have to negotiate about DC's, only money and house, but that is the kind of strategy I ran.

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minkembernard · 11/07/2013 00:26

so many great posts tonight vixens in amongst the fwittery.
loving the not turning up for ongoing life with him
and
the practising saying no before graduating to piss off.

yy Alice to kids learning what they see. I don't set mine a brilliant example but I at least understand the principle.FW thought the learn what you force into them by fear and control.
and bounty I too got the whole see how they behave from their largely absent df because basically kids being kids and being as the toddler taming book says 'horribly normal' is an enormous inconvenience for a FW.

fool and silvery excellent advice on contact I think.

god I hope Fw is not a danger to the dcs. well not a physical one. he is an emotional landmine half the time. i am going to talk to dsc about how they felt about their contact.
my dcs are clear that they want to see him. and my instinct tells me he might not always see that he is not acting like a grown up but he would not harm them...but then my instinct may have been wrong about past behaviour so I am less sure.

yes though I agree fool it is a whole different game once you split. i realised that i had some tiny influence/moderating effect on him before because if he was too outrageous i might kick him out for good, now he knows i have he has nothing to lose. although i think he knows if it came down to P A or any overt threats I would have the law on him in a heartbeat. as I have nothing to lose from that now either.

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FairyFi · 11/07/2013 00:47

ha ha! Charlotte

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FairyFi · 11/07/2013 00:49

mmm... heart skipped, skipped a beat... bout thread 23 !.. clung on tight till followed everyone else's trail over ther.

thanks Thanks Fool and warmest wishes for your strength and resilience with everything right now xx

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Funnyfishface · 11/07/2013 00:53

I found you !!

Alice - sorry you are having a nightmare with h. That must be really hard to deal with.

Bounty - I have read that you have agreed to go for counselling. Hmmmmmm

My h has been gone now for 5 weeks and we agreed that we would go to relate. We have now had three sessions. He has admitted to her that he is FA, EA, moody and controlling and yet we haven't discussed this at all.
Instead we have discussed my anxiety ( in length) and my medication and whether I am menopausal and why I am angry......
So h loves the counsellor as he feels that he has someone on 'his side'.
She has listened to his list of things wrong with the marriage which I think are just petty things. Eg how many times the phone rings for me on an evening, how much I Do for the DC, etc,
My list was the 3 things, moody controlling and abusive.

He is coming across as the husband who works his arse off whilst I sit at home.

I have agreed to keep going.

The atmosphere in the house is still much calmer without him. I have told him this. He says he is prepared to do anything to come back. I still feel really strong. No tears. Am not sure how this is going to end though.

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AliceDoesntLiveHereAnymore · 11/07/2013 07:22

FFF Sounds like he's using counselling as something else to beat you with. Just because you agreed to keep going doesn't mean you can't change your mind.

Refer to "piss off" advice. Grin I think we should all make a "PISS OFF" movement. Grin

H sent message last night saying maybe he should cancel next visitation. I replied that I wasn't prepare to discuss anything with him at the moment. and left it at that. I didn't want to completely ignore as that would imply I was hiding from him - I wanted an answer that basically said .. um... piss off... but in a more polite manner at that point. I'm reserving piss off for something more aggressive. Grin He expects me to say "no, we'll go ahead as we have family plans blah blah" but I think I'll just say "okay, since you've requested not to have the next visit, I'll go along with that." Will he backpedal? Possibly. Will he then probably tell all his family that I was the one that cancelled it? Definitely - to make me out as the bad guy. I can't be arsed to worry about it.

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CharlotteCollinsismovingon · 11/07/2013 10:41

Wtf do people always go on about seeing a solicitor for? That was worse than useless. Answer to every single question was basically "wait and see". Can't see why everyone advises it all the time.

Was feeling weepy before and am really pissed off now. Not the best attitude for fp, which I'm dreading anyway because it's a dvd.

Just a self-indulgent moan, everyone. As you were.

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CharlotteCollinsismovingon · 11/07/2013 10:46

Sol actually said, "If you were to ask my h, he'd probably say I behave unreasonably 99% of the time."

Wtaf? How did she think that was a helpful thing to say? Please tell me it's her and not me!

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TheSilveryPussycat · 11/07/2013 11:39

Not the solicitor for you Charlotte by the sound of it. My strategy was to look on Resolution site, and find sol who qualified some decades ago. Lots of good info on the site as well. Or WA can help.

However, solicitors are not there to validate you, they are there to advise you and to take your instructions. It is different from what people expect and I found it a bit odd at first but it is also understandable. (Mine let me rant btw and was lovely)

She surely should be aware that it is not the fact that behaviour is unreasonable that is the issue, it is that behaviour is unreasonable and you cannot tolerate it, to the extent you want to divorce. It sounds like you felt judged Sad

The courts are not in the business of keeping people married against their will - and what seems like minor behaviour can be cited in the list of about 5 or 6 behaviours - we know, don't we, that such 'minor' behaviour is part of the death of a thousand cuts, I certainly included some in my petition, which went through in a perfectly straightforward way (the divorce, not the financial settlement though!)

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minkembernard · 11/07/2013 11:52

charlotte it sounds very much like it is her. I know nowt about sol but it sounds like this one does not make you feel like she is working for you so annoyingly, you probably need to go and try another one.

just been reading some stuff on the Saatchi thread. she would not defend his reputation. wtaf. that is exactly what my x would have come out with. he thought loyalty was very important. what loyalty actually meant though was not him being faithful, not him choosing his family first but everyone sticking by him and taking his side regardless of what he had done.

I bet Saatchi uses words like loyalty and support all the time. doubt he knows what they mean though.

on the is it fair that he has used the papers to tell her off...I think this is a bit like betters x. he thinks he is getting his point across and airing his grievances in public but any sane person is thinking what an actual FW. and anyone who is not thinking that is also a FW. some FWs are very good at keeping people on side and some are so far into their entitlement anyone can see they are a total and utter FW of the highest order.

It still must hurt for her though so I hope she realises Nigella- any sane person is on your side and thinks he is an enormous bell end. I know that does not take the grief away but as long as she knows it is him he is making look like an idiot just now, not her.

have been musing some more on why it is that when a FW leaves it is not the end. I think it is like when you get burnt. you take your hand away from whatever burnt you but it still hurts like hell. and in fact the damage of the heat is still spreading under the skin. FP and Lundy are like being taught to avoid burning things in the future but they don't actually make the burn go away.
this thread is like pouring cold water on it. it helps a lot. It soothes the pain a bit and you also have the sympathy because face it when you get burned you want people to acknowledge that it is bloody sore. (not like FW who would just say well that was stupid burning yourself wasn't it Hmm)

but at the end of the day, you still have to take care of that burn for a while. ride out the pain for a bit and let it heal. and every time you come back into contact with a FW it is like putting the burn in hot water or snagging it. you feel it again.

...but at least your hand is no longer in the fire....

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betterthanever · 11/07/2013 12:39

Bounty yes he is trying to put it off in the hope you will change your mind about going at all be honest that you imagine you would not feel able to go back to work after the session and that you want to do it sooner so that life can be sweeter sooner possibly without him.
alice did he say why he wanted to cancel? I totally agree he will probably tell other people a different story but you have it in writting and the main positive thing is you can't be arsed to worry about it when the guilt is gone it means the boundaries are firmly in place.. feeling like that is such a massive thing for me, I am less in pieces about things.. thanks to Lundy and you guys. Flowers for you all for everything. I know I will have wobbles but it is easier to get myself back on the rails now whilst he stays off them all the time.

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betterthanever · 11/07/2013 12:48

Well put mink I might print that off and keep it in my bag for low moments. I couldn't understand a lot of what went on at first - Lundy's title why does he do that' sums it all up - friends still ask me why is he doing this/that'. The Nigella points are spot on - I am just so pleased she is standing her ground - he can't stand it... and even after he played what he thought was his trump card with the statement to the press, she stays silent, he must be going wild inside and I am glad he has nowhere to go now. It isn't the norm and so not widley experienced. We can speak the same language and make up our own to describe things out of the norm. The hand, the fire and the burn analogies are just perfect.

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minkembernard · 11/07/2013 12:51

Sorry alice I too meant to comment on that. he is obviously playing the petulant twunt card. oh well if you are going to be like that then I may as well not bother flounce. hoping you will say on no please don't cancel, come and behave any old way you want.

so, personally, my response would be, yes, maybe that is for the best with optional if you cannot behave appropriately.

he will probably back pedal furiously. if he does then I would reply (in writing/email/text)
1- don't mess the dcs about. if you make an arrangement for contact you must stick to it and not threaten to cancel without giving a good reason.
2- this contact is for the sake of dc not for you. so if you are not behaving in an appropriate manner that fully takes their need into account then it is not benefiting them and it will not continue
3- I am looking into alternative supervision arrangements for contact as the current situation clearly cannot be maintained in the long term.

please acknowledge all of the above in writing.

I like to remind my FW as often as possible this is not his contact. it is his parental responsibility and their right to access.

it may also be worth reminding him that as the RP you have ultimate legal and moral responsibility for their welfare until the courts decide otherwise. or that may be too provocative. you know best.

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babyseal · 11/07/2013 13:27

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Noregrets78 · 11/07/2013 13:38

Hi all, just marking my place on the new thread. All peaceful at my end at the moment, just the constant niggling feeling that I'm waiting for something to happen. Consent order to sort the finances will be ready soon, so I'm daring to believe that he'll sign it, and I'll finally be able to change the locks. He changes his mind on a regular basis, so a taddy bit nerve wracking.

He still hasn't sorted himself anywhere to live, and I can still feel myself wanting to sort it for him, but am resisting the temptation.

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ninilegsintheair · 11/07/2013 14:06

Smile

I've been absent and tardy again I'm afraid. Had another major exam last week which has been keeping me stressed and busy, but that's over now for another 6 months (hurrah).

Pleased to report that I finally, FINALLY put on my big girl pants and had a free session with a solicitor last Friday. It went very well indeed - I kept much of my rage and upset inside but gave her enough information to be suitably outraged at what she was hearing. She was fantastic and is sending me a load of information so I can think about my options. Charlotte, that definitely doesn't sound like the solicitor for you!

Things are quiet here, FW is still in a good phase. Without putting you all off your lunch, the rare sex we have has started to turn a bit nasty - can't put my finger on it but he's getting quite aggressive. I was away last weekend on a hen do and he was typically jumpy before I went with lots of comments of "You'll be good won't you?" never gave him any cause to think that about me, the only one who has ever misbehaved on a weekend away is HIM. On my return on Sunday he wanted some very hostile sex. Very odd behaviour I must say.

I feel much like a duck at the moment - serene on the surface but the feet are paddling furiously.

Much love to all. Smile

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fabulousfoxgloves · 11/07/2013 14:19

No time to comment in detail, but Charlotte, I did not proceed with the first solicitor I saw. I felt judged by her, she was awful.

As silver says, I then looked for one with lots of experience, who had testimonials on her website, and whose areas of expertise led me to believe that she would be helpful. She was very matter of fact, she asked pertinent questions, but I did not ever feel I had to explain myself. The only thing I regret is taking so long to pluck up the courage to see a second solicitor, because the first put me off so much.

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fabulousfoxgloves · 11/07/2013 14:21

nini, it is not odd behaviour, it is territorial behaviour, he is showing you who you belong to Sad, and it is part of the abuse. I am so glad that the soliictor appointment went well.

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ninilegsintheair · 11/07/2013 14:28

That sounds about right foxgloves (love the name btw), he usually goes all territorial like that on the very rare occasions I go away like by fucking me he leaves a smell to keep other men away. Hmm But this recent behaviour is a bit different to that, he's just a bit 'nastier' in his bedroom tastes, which is very odd.

Charlotte, is there anyone you know who can recommend you a solicitor?

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