Contacting the OW? Do I?

[3HotCrossBuns]

I am a regular - lurker more than poster - but the time has come for some MN wisdom of my own. In a nutshell, my H disclosed his affair with a work colleague to me nearly 10 weeks ago. His confession was due to having been discovered at work and both of them losing their jobs. He had to tell me to explain why he had lost his job. He knew this was coming for 3 days before telling me so had deleted all evidence (much of the affair had been conducted via work emails rather than text anyway. And he was careful through out). He also told me that he met with her after discovery at work to get their stories straight for the possible investigation. But that they didn't discuss their stories to other halves.

Since D-day he has tried to give me 'full disclosure', gone complete no contact with OW, respected my need for space and then been around when I needed to shout at him, been very hands on with the DC, is apologetic and remorseful etc etc.

However I am struggling with the lack of evidence to back-up his story. I can't access his old work emails, the texts have gone (mostly immediately upon receiving/sending them as he's never hidden his phone) and most of their lunches/drinks were paid in cash so no card or bank records. Obviously he is a very proficient liar as I had no real suspicions of the affair - I had other concerns but did not believe he was cheating.

Basically the only source of info/evidence I have is her. And thats not likely to be 'accurate'. Do I call or text??? She is also married but no DC. Her DH doesn't know. Given that there has been no contact (well that I know about!) is it better to let sleeping dogs lie?? I'm tying myself in knots - have called her number several times but either she hasn't answered or I've hung up.

Any views on what to do for the best? I know I need to get 'closure' on the details of the affair before I can move on.

I think part of the reason why he dislikes me being angry with him is that he has never been 'told off' by his mother, he is her golden child. How very dare I be pissed off with his bad behaviour?!??!

I've just read the whole thread and just wanted to tell you that you are worth way more than this man!

In response to your question, I wouldn't contact the OW. I wouldn't have much to do with either of them again. Men who cheat, cheat again. Do you really want to be part of a marriage where you're constantly wondering what he might get up to?

You are luckier than many women in that you have your own source of income and presumably can afford to go it alone. In some sort of twisted way, this has probably made it easier for your H to resign... A good husband and father wouldn't have cheated in the first place, so he is neither of those things.

If it helps, imagine one of your DC was in your shoes. What would you tell them to do?

My STBXH did all of the above ie open about phones etc. I then found a secret phone in his jacket one day and that was it he was out. In hindsight I have realised that I would never have been able to trust him and it would have eaten away at me and made me ill. I'm one year on and at times it is still hard as my future has completely changed. But onwards and upwards.

He was so sorry last time, he did it again.

I think more thinking is required.

I would take him up on suggestion to leave. You will find your recovery much quicker.

He has 3 doc and he has been fucking at work and lost his job. That would be the bottom line for me.

Oh op

The uttter disrespect for your feelings and almost contempt for you are shown in what he is saying to you.

AFTER the affair!

You have shown the worst of yourself?! Yeah, it's funny what total devastation and betrayal can do to you.

This bloke sounds more and more like my old dad the more you say about him.

Polishing a few banisters and cooking a spag bol dies not negate that.

Yes, the worst of yourself doesn't really compare what he's done though, does it!!

Grrr!! How dare he throw the fact that you were angry back at you? what was he expecting?

As the cheater, he has to suck it up for as long as you need it.

Consequences.

If he does not like it, he knows where the door is.

He should be bending over BACKWARDS to help you. Not throwing a paddy cos you are angry FFS.

I tried talking to him last night/this morning about how I'm feeling. Wasn't very successful - it's like trying to communicate with someone in a foreign language! I'm struggling now to remember much of what he said (no sleep again for me) but I don't think he feels like he has said anything 'wrong' as such in his responses to me - he said he's had a fairly thick skin with the abuse I've quite rightly (his words) hurled at him but that he feels that we can't repair our marriage until I'm able to deal with some of the reasons he was unhappy. He kept bringing up points about his feelings over the last few years and during the affair. I don't think he sees a difference between the 2. I am beginning to despair that he'll ever get it - I feel he thinks he is 'justified' and that is why I can't see the real remorse from him. He can't deal with a 'telling off' without getting defensive. The result is I feel unloved. I did ask him if he has raised this aspect of what's happening at home with his counsellor and he said no - they've been covering things like his low self worth, impact of his parents' bad marriage, his lying.

I've thought about him leaving again. I don't feel strong enough emotionally to manage the DCs. I'm wondering if I should leave?? He's taken all 3 DC to the eldest's cricket this morning - I need some rest but now I'm wondering if I need to pack and find somewhere to go...,,,

No. Don't leave. Your dc need you. He is the reason you are feeling so low and vulnerable.

You don't have to decide anything now. There's no hurry. Just get stronger, get realistic about what he is, (a twat) and how you want to live.

Its all about him isn't it? Do you believe he would still be trying so hard if he hadn't list his job? He can't afford to lose you but is making a great job of making it look like all your fault.
really, think about yourself.
He is minimizing what he has done to see what he can get away with. Its unlikely he won't do it again.

He will not feel true remorse because in his mind it's
all...

'Poor little old me,
Yeah I fucked someone else but it was my parents fault.
Oh and my wifes fault for not worshipping my wonderful self.
I mean I didn't leave her for the ow and I said sorry when she found out...so why is she still mad at me?! WAHHHWAHHH'

He wouldn't be trying at all if he hadn't lost his job - that is what caused his confession. Although he does believe (I don't) that the affair was 'over' by then. I guess he was hoping to sweep it all under the carpet and not face the consequences. Which cheater ever 'confesses' without being discovered one way or another unless its an exit affair and the cheater leaves to be with the AP?

As he's not working we are in each other's face all the time. In some ways that's good as we've had more available time to deal with this, in others it's bad as I think it's made everything more intense. H said that he feels we have condensed 4 months into 2 and that he hasn't had the time to reflect fully. I am exhausted. So is he. At least it's the school holidays now although the downside of that is the DC are around all the time so trickier to hide what's going on. Oh well, we can escape to my mother's holiday place soon. I've decided to spend most of that time without H. Think we will both benefit from that.

Ok so deep breath now, get up and showered and try to be 'together' for the sake of the DC when they get back. I want to get back to my usual capable self.

I'm not sterotyping all men who have had affairs...

But there is definitely a certain type of man that will never see anything wrong with it because they always do such a good job of convincing themselves it was not really all their fault.

He will find an equally good excuse next time he fancies some excitement.

Actually he will probably use the excuse that you are always down, emotionally exhausted etc. Which after all the wondering what he's up to and suspicions you will be.

LookingForward - xpost. Yes that's exactly what I think is in his mind. I've said as much to him which is what he really doesn't like. Obviously I guess. I don't think he sees it like that. He has repeatedly said that it was HIS choice to cheat and he wants to understand the reasons behind it as he really doesn't like his behaviour and wants to change. He says he's not using his parents or me as an excuse. I don't believe he really has appreciated or understood the difference between the 2. Which is bloody frustrating

X-post again, another v good point Looking. Do you think it's possible, through therapy I suppose, for H to realise this is what he is doing?? And therefore change that part of his rational? Thereby hopefully preventing the same bad behaviour patterns?

Op in order for that to work he has to REALLY want it.

He needs to man up and stop acting like a spoilt brat. He is kind of treating you like a mother thats told him off for sticking his hand in the sweetie jar instead of a wife that he has betrayed.

He is defensive and just wants you to forget about it, because the sooner you do that, then the sooner he can stop putting himself out to make it better and can go back to exactly the same as before.

The way he is acting right now? No chance.

If he recieves a major personality transplant and doesn't keep trying to shut you up about it then maybe?

Oh dear. He hasn't even begun to make amends has he. He thinks he's done everything he can? Well it's time for a wake up call. He has done nothing.

Firstly, he is not even sorry. He says he's sorry, but he's not - his actions towards you show that.

Secondly, he does not take responsibility for what he's done. He says it was his choice but goes on to give endless reasons as to why you contributed to his choice.

He is minimising and blaming. He hasn't even begun to get anywhere near to sorting this out.

He is trying to confuse you and grind you down so that you accept what he's done, accept that you are partly to blame and accept that it's unreasonable of you to show your hurt and anger.

He has to leave. Do not have him with you at all on holiday. Tell him that when you come back he should have moved out.

Tell him that you want time away from him to think about what you want. Tell him that you don't want him to 'woo' you. You don't want anything from him except that he leave you alone to think.

Then he might start to take you seriously.

Blimey, so his unhappiness is your fault? People are only responsible for their own happiness.

You really need to focus on YOURSELF and your own life.

Have you got Glass's Not Just Friends? It will help you process your thoughts and emotions - he needs to read it himself as well if he is really serious about making changes.

I have spent an hour this morning writing and sending an email to him setting out how he is successfully convincing himself that his actions are not his fault. Will see what happens after he's read it. However, I fear that it is too much for me to expect that he will take much of it on board seriously. He thinks I'm constantly trying to locate 'blame', I said that's because I'm so frustrated by his lack of taking responsibility, he says he knows its his fault, has consistently said so etc and round in circles we go. Sigh. I've asked him to raise it with his counsellor - at least she might be able to make him aware that he's doing it and its not just me 'twisting' what he says.

I have read the Glass book. I also ordered the Linda MacDonald book (How to help your Spouse Heal from your Affair) at the same time for him which he has read. I think he honestly believes his own rhetoric though - that he is sorry. Oh dear. I'm very heartbroken and disappointed that this is part of who he is - so like his sociopath father who he despises and has no respect for. And he can't see it.

So he has read both books and still thinks that way. I am sorry but if he still does not get it, there is very little hope for your marriage - if he really is a sociopath, the best advice is to detach and get away from him.

As I have already said, you need to start thinking about yourself and rebuilding your own life - friends, hobbies, work, training etc.

I've just read the whole thread op. I think your original question is because your instincts are screaming at you that he isn't telling you the truth. You need to think if you can accept that in order to move on or not.

To be honest, in my opinion as a stranger on the Internet, you said that you had a lot of money in your family and that this has been an issue for him in the past. Do you think he is staying with you for this fact? Especially as he now has no job?

Also, you said that you didn't need an sti check as he said he had used protection. Regardless of this, you need to get checked for your own health and peace of mind- if he's not admitting how many times they have slept with each other, how can you believe him about this.

Finally, you keep saying that he is a good father and you don't wish to upset your children's innocence, etc. first off, heavy drinkers are not good fathers (my dad is an alcoholic and my mum didn't leave him for this reason- it has messed me up). Secondly, good fathers don't risk their job or family on an affair, they just don't. Don't make the mistake of trying to pretend its all ok for the same of your children- they want a happy mum as well, yet your own feelings don't seem to factor into this somehow.

I really wish you well op. I think the trip away will be a good opportunity for you. I would also give some serious thought to making him leave again now you are better. Best of luck x

You need to get rid, find someone who deserves you.
I have heard his story, almost word for word before from friends. Its balls. End of.