Contacting the OW? Do I?

[3HotCrossBuns]

I am a regular - lurker more than poster - but the time has come for some MN wisdom of my own. In a nutshell, my H disclosed his affair with a work colleague to me nearly 10 weeks ago. His confession was due to having been discovered at work and both of them losing their jobs. He had to tell me to explain why he had lost his job. He knew this was coming for 3 days before telling me so had deleted all evidence (much of the affair had been conducted via work emails rather than text anyway. And he was careful through out). He also told me that he met with her after discovery at work to get their stories straight for the possible investigation. But that they didn't discuss their stories to other halves.

Since D-day he has tried to give me 'full disclosure', gone complete no contact with OW, respected my need for space and then been around when I needed to shout at him, been very hands on with the DC, is apologetic and remorseful etc etc.

However I am struggling with the lack of evidence to back-up his story. I can't access his old work emails, the texts have gone (mostly immediately upon receiving/sending them as he's never hidden his phone) and most of their lunches/drinks were paid in cash so no card or bank records. Obviously he is a very proficient liar as I had no real suspicions of the affair - I had other concerns but did not believe he was cheating.

Basically the only source of info/evidence I have is her. And thats not likely to be 'accurate'. Do I call or text??? She is also married but no DC. Her DH doesn't know. Given that there has been no contact (well that I know about!) is it better to let sleeping dogs lie?? I'm tying myself in knots - have called her number several times but either she hasn't answered or I've hung up.

Any views on what to do for the best? I know I need to get 'closure' on the details of the affair before I can move on.

[3HotCrossBuns]

Re work - HR were going to do a formal investigation. I think the emails (which are probably full of incriminating stuff and v inappropriate) and being on work premises after hours were enough to be misconduct at best and probably gross-misconduct. H didn't want to take the risk of instant dismissal and his immediate boss suggested resignation might be the best solution all round. I've seen the compromise agreement - not that it says very much at all.

[clam]

Why would they go back to the office after drinks out, and "just" kiss?

[3HotCrossBuns]

Exactly Clam. The first time was after the Xmas do (the start of the affair) and he went back to the office to get his bag. But they were the last 2 people in the pub so it's a given they were going back to 'get off' with each other (Christ I sound like a teenager!). As it was the 'first time' they didn't shag. I don't believe him. The other occasion was early-ish March after another work function. He claims they didn't 'do it' as he was so drunk he couldn't get it up even after much encouragement. Why would he lie about that - surely that's too embarrassing to admit to?? Anyway as I don't have access to his work premises key card data he didn't have to tell me those gory details??

[clam]

Unless they were seen by a work colleague, in which case he had to admit it as it would come out in a tribunal (or whatever formal sanctions that were going to take place).

[3HotCrossBuns]

I guess. I also think he was telling me the same story he had told work the day before - they would have known his key card dates and he thinks this is the worst they had on him (other than the content of the emails). He didn't confess to shagging her (to me) on a different occasion until the following day when I had thrown him out the house.

[Mimishimi]

Sorry, I wouldn't trust him if he deleted everything to avoid you finding out the extent of it. I wouldn't trust her either but I can see why you might want to ask her for her copies of the emails.

[Fragglewump]

Op I feel for you. What a shitty situation to be in. As I was reading your thread I was thinking about how I would handle your situation. I was thinking through the pain that you will have to deal with as you try to trust this toerag lying man again. I was imagining all the women who have walked in your shoes only to deal with the same shitty situation again a few years down the line. And then I read your post about the fact that this is not the first time for you either......he has done this before..... He will do it again. Each time eroding whats left of your dignity, self esteem and love for him. Your deserve more. Your children deserve more. Get angry, get strong and get him out of your life!

[countingto10]

This article is very useful (I found the whole site useful after discovery of my DH's affair).

In my opinion, you will not get the whole truth until your H feels safe and secure within your relationship again and then when he imparts some nugget it will be like discovery day all over again.

My DH didn't admit to something that I knew most probably took place until 6 months later because it was an incredible betrayal and the ultimate in shitty behaviour and in a way he couldn't admit it to himself if that makes sense.

It's early days so put yourself first and foremost, build your self esteem up, concentrate on making you feel good and don't worry about him - what thought did he give you?

Take care

[MadAboutHotChoc]

Good article Counting.

Did you get Shirley Glass's Not Just Friends? In it there is a section about putting together a timeline - we used diaries and calendars to put ours together and it was revealing.

I think he needs to go to individual counselling - that way he gets to talk about what really happened and address personality traits (e.g lying) and coping mechanisms that led to him choosing to have affairs.

Has he been tested for STIs?

[MmmmmmmmmMARMITE]

I just wouldn't contact her tbh. You don't know her and you could give her the opportunity to embellish the truth - especially if she is hurting too.

Someone on here gave me good advice - the best revenge being be healthy, to live well and be happy. 10 weeks is far too soon - you are still raw. Give yourself time to consider what you want to do - be it a week, a month, a year.

[Thisisaeuphemism]

He loves his dc so much yet he has lost his job and means to support them.
He is soo lying about it only being once and you know that. So this is his 2nd dalliance that you know about.
He is a liar and can't be trusted.

[3HotCrossBuns]

Thank you for the link - I've spent a lot of time on the Internet since D-day but not come across that particular article. I'll read it once DC at school.

He is having individual counselling - twice a week at the start, weekly now. Think he finds it tough as he's exploring lots of his past and his parents' behaviour re lying and infidelity. His father is pathological. But he's sticking with the counselling - altho has admitted he's 'distracting' himself with stuff at home and trying not to 'think about it too much' I've said he HAS to if he's going to change his behaviour.

I have read Shirley Glass's book, v enlightening. I intend to read it again.

H did a timeline for me 2 days after D-day. I've been through my diary and emails what feels like a million times. It's a v hurtful process but only covers about 4 months so its not that complicated to piece together.

Overall I'm struggling. And I think H is struggling too - says he knew it wouldn't be easy but didn't expect it to be this hard! He's frustrated that I don't believe him but does understand why. I'm worried he won't stick this out But then I guess I have my answer

[3HotCrossBuns]

Countingto10 - I think you are one of the 'success stories' of reconciliation after infidelity? How did you manage it after the loss of your trust, relationship etc? I get that the cheater has to take responsibility ( H is), make amends if possible (H is trying) and start to behave better in the future (can't say yet). I have a huge fear of him going back to work eventually as this was all conducted through work - he was almost never late home and was 'normal' with his phone.

[Thisisaeuphemism]

"As it was the 'first time' they didn't shag. I don't believe him. The other occasion was early-ish March after another work function. He claims they didn't 'do it' as he was so drunk he couldn't get it up even after much encouragement. Why would he lie about that - surely that's too embarrassing to admit to??"

I remember reading on here ages ago, that the lies people tell often make them appear even worse - and since then I've noticed that again and again. He is lying about both of these occasions, I would bet good money on it. It started at Xmas, only finished recently, and he got the sack for it? They have had a lot of sex and his failure to admit it to you is really doing damage.

[onefewernow]

Oh I've been here. H was unfaithful for five years, albeit online- he says.

He too only told me when he had no choice- other than divorce- and also deleted any evidence first.

He uses the same words- I can't prove a negative. For us it is 20 months on, and we returned to counselling in February, after an initial short stint at the time.

You can never, ever be sure you got the truth. Ever. I do sympathise, as I was troubled by the same thing, and still am, albeit occasionally.

I do think it is early days. Also , that your H's background re philandering father is something he really needs to concentrate on (my H too).

I advise you to check over your own life, make sure you gave a decent social life and activities of your own, and also do some work with your counsellor, and through reading , on your boundaries .

[LookingForwardToMarch]

I'm sorry op, I read the whole thread and all I get from it is that if you really want to stay with this man then you better toughen up and get ready for the next affair ( assuming you'll find out about that one)

Ok he is bending over backwards, but I'd wager thats because he was under threat of losing his lovely old 'safe' life.

There are a couple of reasons I say this.

He has admitted that if he didn't get caught out then you still would be none the wiser.

He is startinh to get annoyed that you aren't 'at the same stage as him yet' which basically translates as 'God woman we all know you will forgive me, so stop making my life hard, forget about it and then I can carry on as normal'

He felt no guilt over the last affair and has done it before

I think there are cases where people may work through infidelity. Namely ones where the oh has admitted to it under their own steam. Have been truly transparent (e.g. Not running around hiding evidence, matching up stories with ow






He felt no guilt during his affair and has

[LookingForwardToMarch]

Hmm don't know why there is a stray repeat of a line there...bloody phone.

[ShinyBlackShoes]

There must be something more to the sacking thing.

Officially you need warnings verbally, then written, and unless he works somewhere with special regs, I can't see him being sacked on the grounds you mention (called in as OW said they kissed and they used the office out of regular hours).

Only you can decide over trusting him again. My ExH married his OW (his best friends wife) an they have been married for many years and appear very happy, and a guy I dated took his ex-wife back (she had had an affair with a work colleague) and they too are still together and indeed have just emigrated (we didn't keep in touch, I heard this through the grapevine). I say this to give balance to the 'don't trust him again' - it is possible to accept mistakes and move on (possibly even accept that ones partner is a serial adulterer but know that they have chosen you over the others i guess).

Be kind to yourself

[MadAboutHotChoc]

Is there any paperwork relating to the loss of his job that he could show you?

I wonder about how things were ended with OW? How do you know for sure its finished? Ideally, he should have spoken to her on speaker phone in your presence to tell her.

I second Onefewer's advice to focus on yourself and rebuilding your own life (work, hobbies, friends etc) and on your boundaries - I wouldn't be surprised that if you look back you will see how much he has got away with lying, selfishness etc.

[Bogeyface]

I am sorry but I agree with PP's who said that you dont get instant dismissal for a quick snog after an office party. I rather suspect that they have been using the office for their sessions all the way along.

The fact that he is lying now and minimising says that he still thinks more about himself than he does about you, so what you need to do now is work out if you can live with someone like that.

What he wants, feels and does will always be more important to him than you. I couldnt live like that.

[laeiou]

I really think there's more to the work resignation than you've been told. I can't see how an affair conducted on work premises after hours or misusing company email could be gross misconduct or result in a compromise agreement. Where I've worked (small, medium and multinationals in various industries) the only sexual activity considered gross misconduct would be dome sort of assault. People who've been embarrassed through being caught having affairs (I.e. shagging on the premises) just resigned. Why would HR spend money getting a legal agreement drawn up? I can only imagine this happening if it's not a private sector job. Is he James Bond?


Anyway, ho hum. You know he's a serial liar and that he has no respect for you. He's got you thinking that you should stay with him. You seem to be defending him on here. He's got you well trained.

[AnAirOfHope]

why do you want to stay with him?

[AnAirOfHope]

What do you think and feel about him getting a new job? Going out for drinks after work? If he works with the OW again?

[AnAirOfHope]

can you forgive him for getting sacked cos he had sex with another women and it affecting your family finance and family stubility?

The only thing he has left to lose is you. He will always be your childrens father.

[LemonPeculiarJones]

He is 'a stage ahead' of you?!

No, he just doesn't want you to harangue him about it anymore. In his head you're being a pain for going on about it.

He sounds like an arsehole. He's behaved with the utmost selfishness, has betrayed you, lied again and again and again, and wants the fallout to be as comfortable for him as possible.

Why are you making this so easy for him?

I don't think you can ever trust him (EA, affair, lies about porn use). If you stay with him you are accepting that you don't deserve anything better. You will be sacrificing your self-respect.

It's up to you.