Contacting the OW? Do I?

[3HotCrossBuns]

I am a regular - lurker more than poster - but the time has come for some MN wisdom of my own. In a nutshell, my H disclosed his affair with a work colleague to me nearly 10 weeks ago. His confession was due to having been discovered at work and both of them losing their jobs. He had to tell me to explain why he had lost his job. He knew this was coming for 3 days before telling me so had deleted all evidence (much of the affair had been conducted via work emails rather than text anyway. And he was careful through out). He also told me that he met with her after discovery at work to get their stories straight for the possible investigation. But that they didn't discuss their stories to other halves.

Since D-day he has tried to give me 'full disclosure', gone complete no contact with OW, respected my need for space and then been around when I needed to shout at him, been very hands on with the DC, is apologetic and remorseful etc etc.

However I am struggling with the lack of evidence to back-up his story. I can't access his old work emails, the texts have gone (mostly immediately upon receiving/sending them as he's never hidden his phone) and most of their lunches/drinks were paid in cash so no card or bank records. Obviously he is a very proficient liar as I had no real suspicions of the affair - I had other concerns but did not believe he was cheating.

Basically the only source of info/evidence I have is her. And thats not likely to be 'accurate'. Do I call or text??? She is also married but no DC. Her DH doesn't know. Given that there has been no contact (well that I know about!) is it better to let sleeping dogs lie?? I'm tying myself in knots - have called her number several times but either she hasn't answered or I've hung up.

Any views on what to do for the best? I know I need to get 'closure' on the details of the affair before I can move on.

[onefewernow]

and I would photocopy or keep originals of statements too.

So, so many women are absolutely convinced that men will be fair about money, and more than not they are disappointed in that. I seem to remember he has more to lose than you, too.

In fact I would take originals.

[onefewernow]

eg a bank account number isnt much help if you cant prove that he emptied an account.

[3HotCrossBuns]

No but you can order statements etc which will show the balances on certain dates so thereby showing he has emptied it?
As he is not working and I have more capital assets don't I stand to lose more? On the basis I will have to 'buy him out'?

The 'monitoring' of him was supposed to be making me feel better, less anxious etc. It wasn't because his motivation and emotional commitment wasn't there. I've realised it's a fool's gold.

[MissStrawberry]

Could the bank freeze accounts?

Is it worth calling them for advice?

Definitely copy everything but there's no point having copies if he is able to take all the money and not have to give it back.

BTW you are amazing. He is a twat. Some men are so predictable I wonder if they have it in their DNA or go to classes or something. There is such a script even an idiot like me could guess their next move.

[onefewernow]

Well i found it hard enough not to keep checking for months even when I was sure he had stopped. Even harder, in your case, I should think.

At the same time, it is obvious to us that it doesnt really and truly prevent deception, as deceivers always find a way if they want to, dont they?

The best clue you have to how likely he is to go back to that game is how is ids behaving now. Which in the case of your H, is not good, it seems to me.

[3HotCrossBuns]

He can't take the money from my accounts, only his and our joint account. Also he has no right to access my pension, my investments etc. Likewise I guess I can't take anything out of his bank accounts or pension. Like most people the bulk of our 'estate' is in the marital home anyway. I can't quite believe I'm thinking about these things. I don't want to get divorced

And I'm not amazing - I am exhausted and feel a bit of a mug for spending the last month desperately believing he cared for and loved me and that he wanted our marriage to work when the evidence all pointed to him being a very selfish cake eater!!!

[losingmyself48]

Hi 3 - I've been in those shoes and they are not the comfiest to wear.

I did go and speak to the OW but I kind of ended up feeling a bit sorry for her - she seemed to have been as manipulated by my OH as I have been for a number of years. I think she actually loved him - and to be honest, it didn't help me trust him any more that their stories were aligned.

She did tell me things that he hadn't - more detail - but then I think that's a woman thing to remember the dates, times, events etc.

Restoring trust is something that you and your OH need to do together - he broke it, he needs to fix it, not her. Let her deal with her own shit.

There is a temptation I think to see what she looks like, to hear what she sounds like - to know what the attraction was in the first place. It will only eat you alive from the inside. My advice for what its worth - rebuild your marriage with your husband and have nothing more to do with the woman who tried to destroy it.

Good luck honey. xx

[Fairenuff]

I think it's a good idea to ask him to move out. Also, could you box up all the financial paperwork and ask a friend if you can store it at their house just while you are away.

See if you can see a solicitor before you go away just to find out where you stand, generally, with the joint ownership of the house. It might put your mind at rest just to have that information, even if you never actually need it.

[MissStrawberry]

I think you are amazing for keeping the faith that someone is a decent person and that you can both do what needs to be done to rebuild. Not your fault the impression he gave you wasn't true.

[3HotCrossBuns]

Thank you MissStrawberry.

[itwillgetbettersoon]

It is very difficult as ultimately we all want to keep our marriages going. But in reality one person has chosen to break that trust and have sex with another woman. We then end up damping down this awful deceit to save our marriages.

My STBXH did the same, tried to come up with a list of my faults, told me I needed to trust him and that I shouldn't restrict his freedom etc. I tried so hard to help him ( ha ha) and then found the second phone and realised that all this time he was playing me. That was it for me otherwise I think I was going to end up on ADs as I knew something deep down just wasn't right.

I feel for you Op but I really think you will be better off without him. I'm one year further on than you and I look back at that time and think his treatment of me as his wife was appalling and disgusting and I didn't deserve any if it.

[3HotCrossBuns]

Oh fuck this is so hard. Managed 2 days of being withdrawn then marriage counselling last night where I was honest. 2 days of me being detached has apparently given him the space to work out his own feelings and he realised he does love me. I nearly snorted out loud at that.

H has been v quiet himself since counselling and I was hoping he would be able to 'up his game' as it were. It's still almost impossible for me to believe he doesn't have proper loving feelings for me. Conversation over dinner tonight where I clarified further from marriage counselling session my feelings for him and our marriage - that I love him deeply but that I cant live a life where he only loves the nice bits of me. Sadly it is apparent that he can't manage anything else, talked about not knowing what love is. Also still lots of chat about my faults in the marriage etc. He thinks it 'will be easy not to have an affair' but not so easy for me to stop my controlling behaviours. Minimise, blame shift and deny. I am lost. And became a pitiful snivelling wreck I said I might have got over the infidelity itself but the lack of reliable and consistent love from him has wrecked any chance we may have had. I'm utterly heartbroken.

[3HotCrossBuns]

I am going to ask him to leave on Friday. I have an enormous fear that he won't try to save our marriage. Rationally I know that keeping him here won't change that but it's still a horrid feeling.

[MissStrawberry]

Another part of the script. He realises that you are prepared to end things and thinks he has to say all the right stuff to get you back and keep you in line.

Don't be afraid he won't try to save your marriage. If he doesn't then you are better off without him. If he does then maybe you'll decide you don't want him.

[3HotCrossBuns]

I don't get it - why go through all this aggro and upset if he's not really that bothered?!? At best I think he's an emotional child but he just doesn't see it. I also don't understand why it's only me who does? What is going on in his counselling sessions??!

[Bogeyface]

He isnt bothered about you marriage, sorry but he clearly isnt.

What he is bothered about is not making life hard for himself. Moving out, getting a new place, doing his own shopping, cooking, washing etc are all things he doesnt want to do because he has it very nice right now.

Further proof that he is just a selfish bastard. His life will be harder, oh dear, what a pity, never mind. Yours will not, take heart, keep the faith and stay strong.

[onefewernow]

He know he wil have it harder. I bet he takes little responsibility generally, you complain, he ignores you, and now has it that you are controlling.

Possibly you are.....because you have been trying to control outcomes which are fair to you too, which is impossible if he won't play. Been there, done that.

So you could let him stay and check his movements and phone- controlling.

Or kick him out on he basis you do not feel reassured, and let him decide how to proceed next. Accept the outcome, if you do. Not controlling!!

It is better not to control, for siure. But he won't like it!

[onefewernow]

I think you will, though. If you can control the fear and not the outcome. Poor you, it's so hard. But the growth you will get from this via all this pain will be worth it's weight in gold. Im finding that, anyway .

[3HotCrossBuns]

Such a mad situation - no he won't like it, but he doesn't like me controlling him either! I don't like being controlling (I accept that I am and I do need to work on this) but not being controlling by asking him to leave drives me mad with anxiety! Aaarrrggghhhh.

I have stuck to my guns of not checking his phone, emails etc for 3 days now. Small battles. I have to literally sit on my hands though.

[Bogeyface]

Think of it like this, whatever you do that is "controlling" (and not wanting your family ripped apart by selfishness and trying to prevent that is not controlling btw) he will find a work around.

You check his phone? He gets a cheap second phone and sim. You check his email? He gets a new hotmail account. You check his FB? He starts a new FB with his new hotmail account.

You will never know for sure that he is being honest, and when you question him he will accuse you of being controlling.

This is not about you and what you do, it is about him and what he is trying to hide. The question is, can you live like that? Can you spend the rest of your life going through the hundreds of pages of profiles on dating sites in case he is there? (I have done that and died a little with every click of the mouse).

If you cant, then forget him. Forget "control", think about you and the kids. Write off everything he says and do what is best for you and them, he will rewrite history to suit himself whatever you do, so you might as well be happy with your life.

[3HotCrossBuns]

I understand what you are saying Bogeyface - he will do what he will do regardless of the 'controls'. I totally get that. Some of your examples aren't his MO but I get your point.

And he's already rewritten our history as part of justifying his behaviour to himself in having the affair (and the EA years ago) which he is not prepared AT ALL to accept. He says that I am denying my role in the poor state of our marriage pre-affair. I just don't see it that way, I see a selfish man who was not prepared to be patient whilst we had small children although I realise I was part of the mal-functioning of our marriage. God, there's no possible reconciliation is there whilst we're so far apart?? So unbelievably gutted

[Bogeyface]

You were part of a malfunctioning marriage but you werent to blame for it!

Everyone knows that major life changes will affect a marriage. Children especially will change the dynamic. When you had children you did what any normal person would do and focus on them, he did what every selfish person would do and think "But what about MEEEE?!" and then had an affair.

You see the true measure of a person in the bad times, not the good. He has shown you that when things get a little difficult, he runs away and then blames you.

[3HotCrossBuns]

That he has - babies, job stress and redundancies are triggers for his running away, drinking too much and looking for other women, then blaming me. How could have I have chosen a life partner so badly? I guess at 20 I was a poor judge of character. I so wish I could talk to my 20-something self and have gotten out of this whilst it was easier. And before 3 innocent children were dragged into it.

[Bogeyface]

Re-read what you have written.

You are still blaming yourself! It isnt your fault that he made promises he didnt keep. It isnt your fault that you took him at his word and then he reneged.

If you learn anything from this, you should learn that you are not responsible for what other people do.

[Fairenuff]

Your children will give you enormous comfort, strength and satisfaction. They will help you through it just by being there, needing you and giving unconditional love.

It's very hard to come to terms with the fact that you are poles apart in this but actually it does make separation that little bit easier. If he said that he loved you desperately, didn't want to live without you and promised you the earth, it would be much harder to tell him to leave.

There are many, many men who did that and then continue to cheat. It's part of the script. They swear undying love and then just get clever at hiding their affairs.

At least you know exactly what you are dealing with - a selfish man who just wants his own way and if he doesn't get it blames you and calls you controlling.

His behaviour is far more controlling.