Contacting the OW? Do I?

[3HotCrossBuns]

I am a regular - lurker more than poster - but the time has come for some MN wisdom of my own. In a nutshell, my H disclosed his affair with a work colleague to me nearly 10 weeks ago. His confession was due to having been discovered at work and both of them losing their jobs. He had to tell me to explain why he had lost his job. He knew this was coming for 3 days before telling me so had deleted all evidence (much of the affair had been conducted via work emails rather than text anyway. And he was careful through out). He also told me that he met with her after discovery at work to get their stories straight for the possible investigation. But that they didn't discuss their stories to other halves.

Since D-day he has tried to give me 'full disclosure', gone complete no contact with OW, respected my need for space and then been around when I needed to shout at him, been very hands on with the DC, is apologetic and remorseful etc etc.

However I am struggling with the lack of evidence to back-up his story. I can't access his old work emails, the texts have gone (mostly immediately upon receiving/sending them as he's never hidden his phone) and most of their lunches/drinks were paid in cash so no card or bank records. Obviously he is a very proficient liar as I had no real suspicions of the affair - I had other concerns but did not believe he was cheating.

Basically the only source of info/evidence I have is her. And thats not likely to be 'accurate'. Do I call or text??? She is also married but no DC. Her DH doesn't know. Given that there has been no contact (well that I know about!) is it better to let sleeping dogs lie?? I'm tying myself in knots - have called her number several times but either she hasn't answered or I've hung up.

Any views on what to do for the best? I know I need to get 'closure' on the details of the affair before I can move on.

He can instruct his solicitor ( the one that drew up the compromise agreement) to releasehisfileof papers to you, that should verify his story at least from the work point of view.

I have one friend locally in RL that knows (plus a couple of others an hour or so away). The nearby friend has been v supportive - listened not told me what to do but offered opinions. She rightly thinks I'm in a shitty place stuck between 2 crap choices. I also have my employment lawyer friend who I'm seeing tomorrow.

LookingForward - I'm sorry that my comment hit a raw nerve for you. It sounds like your upbringing was v similar to my H's. His mother had revenge affairs, which his father used to justify his infidelity my H discovered. I am so aware of the message our DC are getting but don't want to destroy their innocence either - they are just 8, just 6 and nearly 4.

I am planning to spend most of August with the DCs at my mother's holiday place. I wasn't sure about H bring there too. I think it might be for the best for him to stay at home. But I know I'd worry about what he was doing

We (and definitely me) didn't deal with his EA properly at the time. I didn't take it anywhere near seriously enough as 'nothing happened'. So I feel like this is the first time we have really dealt with these issues rather than giving him yet another chance. Perhaps that is all part of the pattern I've found myself in. I think I seriously need to examine my boundaries as suggested by Countingto10.

Thats ok op, I have so many issues that its almost impossible not to touch on them

Do what you think best for your family. Children can lose their innocence in many ways.

I would make sure you know absolutely what your cut off point is.

I've seen what happens when you keep the peace once too often and it is ugly.

All the best

Leave the kids with him.

If you talk about splitting up, let him know he'll have the kids half the week.

So many fathers think that walking away from the drudgery and chaos looks quite attractive, especially this type of character. I'd let him know that you'd be happy with co-parenting. That'll take the wind out of his sails.

So true about drudgery and chaos. My OH said he didnt want the life he had now which included domestic stuff and our beautiful DS. He thought his life would be so much better floating around in emotional and spiritual bliss with his beautiful inspirational friend listening to alt j and admiring her etchings. This is the point at which I often feel like contacting her to say "grow up, we all have our artistic and spiritual outlets and listening to songs about emotional pain is a poor substitute for experiencing it"- shall I send her a few words or ask my DS to describe rejection or paint a picture. Their little tryst created so much pain for other people - seen at first hand by OH but all she can do is imagine...why shouldn't she know and have the chance to feel shit about it? I didn't get that choice, neither did my DS?

OP, I am so sorry you are going through this. Sadly, nothing makes it easier and there are no safe waters to chart through under these circumstances. The children are going to be affected, and your marriage is permanently altered.

To answer your original question .....I think it would be an absolute mistake to speak with OW, on several counts. Firstly, whatever she tells you, your head will always suspect she is lying. So its a no-win ...if she is lying you have gained nothing, and if she isn't then you still won't trust that its the truth.
Secondly, the one crucial thing that should come from the whole mess is that you emerge with self respect intact. Trust me, its something that tends to go out of the window once you start asking the OW for her spin on anything!!

Stay strong.

OP your husband sounds like a self indulgent, pathetic fuck-wit. Have some self respect and LTB.

Spend the first week on your own recuperating, OP. I am sorry you feel you have had the stuffing knocked out of you. A break and rest is essential if it can be arranged.

How are you doing OP. You've had a lot to take in since you started this thread. Probably a bit more than you were expecting. Take it at your own pace. It's ok.

Keeping posting for support.

OP you can make decisions based on how trustworthy he is in your absence . If he wants to, there is always a way.

Don't let his character or poor choices limit yours. Because that is ineffective, and more importantly it will limit you.

Thank you for asking after me. I had a busy couple of days as its the end of term with coffee mornings etc which is keeping me occupied. I saw my lawyer friend last night which was helpful. I am trying to take in lots of what has been said on this thread. It's hard. I don't trust H at all (unsurprisingly) and feel anxious nearly all the time. Physically I have more or less recovered from the accident I had but I still feel v vulnerable. I've had a couple of panic attacks this week . H thinks I should see a doctor as I'm not coping very well.

You are coping well. You are having a normal and natural reaction to being betrayed. Your world has fallen apart and the one person you should be able to rely on and lean on is the one who is hurting you.

You need to be apart from him for at least a while. Tell him you want him out. All you need is some space and time. Tell him that and see if he gives it to you.

He has said he would do anything so it shouldn't be a problem for him. Tell him to leave so that you can think.

Panic attacks are usually caused by poor breathing eg breathing too shallow (panting), or holding your breath. The science is that this sends a message to the adrenals that there's a theat on, so they swing into action. Switch them off by being aware of your breathing, keeping it slow and deep (this isn't easy when you're going through a stressful time but it's good to be aware of it and, when you remember, take some deep breaths to steady your system).

I'm sorry you're going through a crap time xx

Breathe in for 7 and out for 11, or whatever number is comfortable for you. the idea is to breathe out more than in as its the fact you have too much oxygen in you body that can start feelings of panic.
I was cross at his assertion you need medicaton for not coping. how does he think you are supposed to cope? medication isn't always the answer.
As Fairenuff said your response is perfectly normal for the situation you are in.
I know it is really hard to think about this but i too would say that having him not staying in the house for a while would be really benficial to you and although in a perfect world you just want all the horror to go away, it isn't and it really is true that your mind needs its own space without him in it so you can process what is going on.

He has said he would do anything so it shouldn't be a problem for him. Tell him to leave so that you can think.

Hear, hear. That break at your mother's place will be great but August is too far off. Your happiness and well-being should be non-negotiable.

Hi 3HotCrossBuns, I am about a year and half on from my D-day - my husband had been having affair for 6 years (first year proper full on, next 5 were long distance EA with snatched weekends etc where they could), it's been fucking hard.

My husband was a good dad and a good partner in parenting to me, he was basically good in every way (apart from him utterly betraying me). We did basically what you are doing, he cut contact with OW completely and he moved out of our home that night. I had a lot of stuff I had to get through over the first few months (going away on courses, moving house etc) which was already planned and I had to plough on with life before I could face up properly to what had happened.

I told my husband that I would not make any decisions until I was ready, but I did know that whatever happened I wanted to make sure that everything was as grown up and pragmatic as possible so as not to affect the kids any more than necessary. We started relate about 6 months after D-day, when I was ready to start it, because I had already worked through so much in my head by then, I was ready for the counselling at that point.

We have stayed together and things have been much better so far, although I will never be complacent about our marriage as I was before - who knows what the future holds?? I can just carry on being the best I can be, I can't control anything else. I had a breakdown in the end last year as it was all too much in the end (lots of other stuff going on too with work etc), but am still here and life is good now.

With regards to the OW, don't contact her - she is not a part of your life now (whether your life is with your husband or not), you have to leave her behind if you can. She's influenced a large part of your life in recent months without your knowledge, don't let her be a part of YOUR life now - she is not worth it. It is so easy to say, I have been close many times to contacting the OW in my marriage but I managed (so far) to stay strong on that and with hindsight I'm proud that I never let her see/hear how devastated I was - she is not important to me and my life.

Like I said, it's fucking hard but you will get through things whether it's together or not - stay strong and stay practical. Hope things start to get easier soon xx

Hi op

Your husband lies, has emotional affairs, physical affairs, a drink problem (and gets verbally abusive towards you), gets himself sacked from work and grows tired of the 'work' needing to be done on your marriage after 2 months. I think someone else had a very good suggestion of investing time in yourself and your new hobby, giving some time and space so that you can decide if you really want to stay together.

You have spoken a lot about HIS parents and their marriage but not much about your own. Do you think there's anything in your background that has encouraged you to put up with this behaviour? Does it also seem worse if the marriage fails because of opposition in the first place? (you said his dad called him a gold-digger and you are wondering why he married you?)

As an aside, can I just say I get pissed off that men (including my own DH) rather seem to get brownie points and adulation for the things they are supposed to do anyway??? e.g. being a good father, helping round the house (they are also his children and he lives in the bloody house!!), helping a sick wife etc. Women rarely get praised for doing the myriad things we do - this is just taken for granted. (Although boots are put in soon enough should we forget anything).

Going back to an earlier comment you made, regarding what your DCs have been told:
daddy has been very naughty and has upset mummy a lot (this is what H told them).

Maybe that is how he thinks of it himself, "naughty", pushing boundaries, and he may complain about you having control issues but that stops him being accountable for his own actions doesn't it - look what happened on your watch! He has all the virtuous relief of having confessed, now you are dragging this around with you.

I am going to be unpopular now as I wonder if H has a sort of point about seeing your doctor, perhaps not for the same fix-it-quick reason. Have you spoken to your GP since this turn of events? You may be struggling with the after-effect of your accident and now this on top. First a physical blow, then an emotional wound.

Hi OP,

you ar a braver woman than me. To have got over an affair already once and be facing it again And I am sorry I don't care if it was an EA or if they were shagging like bunnies, both are AFFAIRS and involve broken promises and lack of respect. H had an affair last year - I am 12 m on from dday and there are times when I am still struggling. I could never never NEVER go through this again. If there is a next time he is gone.

Don't contact OW. If she didn't want to end up as 'just friends' then I guess she's pretty sore about it all. You won't get 'the truth', you will get some of HER truth and probably and shedload of bitterness thrown in.

Donkey my H stated control issues as part of the relationship issues we had. It took a whole to get him to accept that control issues were no reason to have an affair.

Control issues means a lot of things and is worth unpicking. Many women ask and then remind and then complain about issues relating to share of responsibility. A few are controlling about how others run their lives.

What I now say is that I was controlling in part, but that I should have left him for his disrespect and selfishness in the first place, and before the affair.

Needless to say I don't control now, but he knows that if he doesn't contribute fairly then I am out.

Why do you want to contact OW? What would you say to her? What would you gain from it?

If my experience is anything to go by she will be as obsessed with you as you with her, so keep yourself as the mythical being she can't get to and don't contact her. Right now she'll be feeling like sh*t as he's left her. How sad

Apologies for not posting for a few days - end of term madness! I have been doing a lot of thinking though and reading of the other threads on here at the moment where there are similar issues (sorry for those OPs, this is such a shitty thing to go through). There are some very helpful posts on those threads with some great links. I did see the doctor re my anxiety/panic attacks who suggested individual counselling (had 1 session so far), relaxation techniques and some internet research re managing the physical symptoms. No prescription for pills. I've been slightly better but still v anxious and hyper sensitive.

I'm still struggling with quite how deceitful my H has been and its so difficult to see what he really is. The lack of trust I have in his 'affair story' was driving my desire to contact the OW but I do see that this would not be helpful to me. But I'm still very confused. I've not been terribly clear on this thread about the previous EA - I had my suspicions but no evidence or anything concrete, I raised my concerns with him and he appeared to take me seriously, listened to me and reassured me that nothing was going on and I had jumped to conclusions etc. Nonetheless he agreed to stop the behaviour that was upsetting me (flirty emails) and did follow through on that promise. Hence neither of us actually dealing with it at the time. It is one of the things that has come to light in opening the pandora's box of our relationship post D-day for the 'real' affair so I'm having to deal with it now for the first time properly. Actually it was more serious than he admitted to at the time although wasn't physical.

Also to clarify my timeline - disclosure of the affair was 10weeks ago, my accident 4 weeks ago. I'm moreorless fully recovered physically now and H has offered to move out so we can return to the status quo of where we were before the accident. I feel very anxious about that.

In terms of his 'remorse' I'm in 2 minds - some days I think he's really trying, others I think I'm a complete mug . He has said that its been pretty difficult for him as I've been consistently nasty, aggressive etc. He understands why I feel like that and seems to take responsibility got causing my distress but says that I've shown the worst side of myself in all of this And he wants to try to 'woo' me but is waiting for a green light from me as he feels the things he's done already just get thrown back in his face. He has given me transparency on his phone, tablet and the pc, dumped a 'friend' of 10 years who knew about the EA years ago, changed his number, downloaded a tracker app on his phone, been doing ALL the household chores whilst I've been incapable myself. But then all this is undone by an argument or row which is triggered usually by my hyper-sensitivity. I have found that over the last 2 days I am starting to detach from him emotionally (although I did cry alot last night). Maybe its just to soon to make a decision one way or the other and perhaps I still have a lot to process.

Anyway sorry for rambling post. Just wanted to 'check in'.

The accusations he's throwing at you are reminiscent of what a man says when he's justifying an affair, as if he's still justifying it.

You have to work through all this because of his actions, so if you're angry, he should deal with it, not expect you to roll over and forget.

You've shown the worst side of yourself???? What has he shown?

Sorry but I could not forgive that disrespect after an affair. Appalling :(

What mysterious said. Hyper sensitive? Worst side of you? Utter utter rubbish. Of course you are sensitive, he has destroyed your trust, and treated you appallingly. Of course you are angry, you have every right to be. What does he expect? A perfect stepford wife who pats him on the head and says, 'don't worry sweetheart, it's fine, you were a little bit naughty but it's all forgotten now '

You can get past an affair, I have, and we're ok, but I sure as anything wouldn't be even slightly ok if my DH was talking to me like that.

No I'm not ok either. The angry backlash from him started about 4 weeks post D-day and about a week or so later I asked him to leave for a couple of weeks as the atmosphere was so awful at home. A week later I had my accident, he came back and things were 'on hold'. Over the last couple of weeks things have deteriorated and now I'm a wreck .