MIL says she and ILs are annoyed by our refusal to be driven drunk

[Mixxy]

This has been an issue for a while, basically.

There is a family BBQ this 4th of July at my BILs house about an hour away by car. I'm not a driver here in the US (wrong side for the wheel, wrong side of the road). My DH will be working that day and so can't join me or drive me. This leaves me with the option of being driven by my PIL who are in their 80s. FIL will have a few G&Ts at family functions and feels it is perfectly fine to drive home. I don't feel the same. And I certainly won't be strapping my 4 month old DS into the back seat.

MIL came over and had a shouting match with my DH tonight saying she wanted to take DS to the BBQ and that all our in laws were getting annoyed that we never go anymore and that they want to see the baby. While DH is a bit more relaxed on drinl driving, he told her that everybody knew our position on this issue and knew where we lived if they wanted to come see the baby and that my wishes were to be respected - end of. She threw a dramatic fit that only she can. Its not like she wants me there, just DS. She might be willing to be chauffered around by somebody over the limit, and seemingly she thinks its okay to do with our DS!

I don't want to offend the in laws all the time (we have missed a lot of family functions over this). Anyone have any similar experiences or advise?

mixxy - if you get the car seat adaptor, then I think public transport is very feasible. You can get clips to clip your changing bag on to the handle of the pram if it's too heavy or you can't clip it to the basket. Baby in car seat. Taxi to the station. On train. Baby out if car seat if your worried about too long in it. Back in car seat and taxi to BBQ. Repeat on way back.

I'm genuinely that you'd get a taxi a million miles to the BBQ but not one from your apartment to the train station.

I'm posting this as I genuinely think that if you're a non-driver, you should get used to getting out and about and getting public transport. Not necessarily to the BBQ but so you can actually have some freedom to venture off Manhattan. I feel claustrophobic at the thought of being stuck there in the heat totally unable to use public transport to get to the beach for example.

Separately, I really think you shouldn't conflate the various issues. I completely accept that you don't want to drive with a drunk PIL. Also, they have been very rude to you. Again, completely understandable why you don't want to see them. However, I strongly suspect that this will be rehashed with you again. So I would not rely on lack of adapters (which can be easily and cheaply bought) and a veto of the subway (get a taxi?) as to why you're not going. All that will happen is that the PILs will point out (as other posters have) that you could have actually quite easily have got the bus or the train and it makes you look unreasonable whilst not addressing the underlying issues of drink driving and rudeness.

I'm on your side, OP - I also have a MIL who sees me merely as transport for her DGD, and regularly demands that I bring her to see her, despite the fact that a) she lives at the other end of the country, b) it's much easier for her to come to us, which she has an open invitation to do, and c) once there all she wants to do is sit in the pub after all, despite DH and I explaining time and time again that it's hardly an enjoyable or stimulating environment for a one year old.

A relationship with your grandchildren is not a right, it's a privilege and like all privileges it has to be earned. If your FIL was any kind of a man he'd forgo drinking for ONE DAY to make sure he could transport his DGS and DIL safely, and if your MIL really cared about the pair of you, or even just your DS, she'd be tearing strips off him, not you, for his refusal to do so. So fuck 'em, don't go. Your DS doesn't need a relationship with people like that.

There is nothing cultural about drink driving that makes it necessary to condone it. It is illegal in the USA to drive drunk.

Mixxy once again I have NEVER said that you should do as your PIL tell you to do....

I am saying that there is no point convincing them they are wrong. But find a way to do things as you want them to. In such a way that you don't ostracise yourself from your DH's family.
I am also saying that your DH has a say in all this and how to deal with this situation as this is about HIS family and he might want to keep some relationship with them.

There isn't anything new in what I am saying re how to handle relationship with ILs.
Which makes me wonder why my comments seem to make you so angry.

gobbolin People have pointed out how easy it is to get public transport to the destination because they know nothing of the transport to the destination. Its not easy to. Two subways to Port Authority to a bus (trains don't go near my ILs) to a rural bus station to wait on a cab to drive me there in weather that is about 34 degrees. No thanks.

OP to my mind it wouldn't matter if they lived an easy stroll around the corner. There is absolutely no requirement for you to continue seeing people who treat you so poorly!

I am sure if they were welcoming and respectful you would go the extra mile (literally). As it is, send a clear message and don't go unless your DH is available. Let them rebuild relationships if they want to.

It is actually a good thing for a child (when they are old enough to understand) to see their mother has some self-respect! So you are also IMO doing the right thing my your dc by making a stand.

Why are you getting 2 subways when you get a cab from your apartment to the bus? You can have a cab waiting at the bus stop at PILs too?

I'm not trying to cross examine you but you're not actually making logical sense. That makes it much harder for DH to fight your corner with them because you clearly have not looked at every option.

I've dealt with people like this too. In fact, I'm currently being pressurised to travel about 200 miles with 7 month old DS to meet up with some of DH's family whilst he's at work. It's a bad road, I'm pregnant again with morning sickness and I don't want to drive there and back in rush hour. I've looked at the public transport options and it won't work. I've looked at all the options so it's much easier for DH to use the broken record approach to his parents who are complaining. Whenever they offer a suggestion, he's able to say we've looked at it, it won't work and explain why.

We've also suggested an alternative visit in August.

From my perspective and experience, it's absolutely key in dealing with situations like this to take this approach as (a) it looks like you really did want to go and tried all the options (b) it allows you to look reasonable and keep the upper hand (c) it helps and supports DH when he's trying to deal with his family.

It may just be the way you are appearing on this thread, but you are coming across as someone who has only looked at the most expensive option (clearly not really feasible) and then is dismissing everything else out if hand. This means when the PILs moan to the rest of the family, there's likely to be less sympathy and support for your position. My experience with Dh's family is that most of them are pretty reasonable so when PIL's start complaining, once it becomes clear that we genuinely and reasonably have tried to fit in, most people actually stick up for us. DH's sister is particularly fair in that regard. That also tends to cut the PIL's off at the pass

Mixxy I have read this whole thread, and I agree with you on the drink driving thing. I dont know all the backlog with your IL's, but I just wonder seeing as some posters have offered advice, that wasn't necessarily rude but you have replied to them in quite a defensive way, that can be seen to be a bit aggressive.

I just wonder what you actually said to FIL when he offered to drive you at Xmas time? Ok I get drink driving is wrong, but he probably thought he was offering a helping hand. Old people get stuck in their ways, and if they've been drink driving for years with no incidents etc they probably think that there is no problem to drive after a couple of glasses. Maybe there is a bit of friction brought on by something from the dawn of your relationship with IL's that has snowballed on both sides into this.

If an elderly relative offered to drive me I would have politely declined and not even mentioned the drinking, because it's not worth causing upset over. You can come up with a host of other reasons why not to accept the lift or why you can't make it. If you have work the next day for instance you could say you have an early meeting or something? I think that your IL's are trying offer an olive branch to you.

I am not an advocate of drink driving, I called the police when my mother kept drink driving. They weren't really that bothered here either.

TBH I have travelled by public transport to see my sister with a 7 month old baby, pushchair, suitcase, changing bag and suffering from morning sickness I had to use the tube, change trains wait in stations and then get a taxi, there were no lifts either and it was hard work. But I suppose I really wanted to see my sister... :) and I made the effort, I don't think I would if we didn't get on. Plus strangers can be very helpful when they see you struggling with bags.

With respects to the cat allergy, I have a very bad reaction to cat hair, my windpipe swells up and I can hardly breathe. I never go into anyone's home who has a cat, not even if they've hoovered the whole house ten times over. I just can't risk it.

Why are people insisting that the OP "should" broker a relationship with her inlaws ? When they've behaved atrociously - not just a bit "off", not just a misunderstanding, or a little disagreement - but disgustingly.

I'd like to know if MIL ever offered any explanation for calling a consulate and declaring the OP was mad FFS ? Did she ever apologise for calling the OP a "bitch" or taking it upon herself to announce her pregnancy to all and sundry without the OP's permission ? Or has she just continued blithely - I'm guessing it's the latter, given she's recently turned up to scream and shout and have a tantrum about getting her own way ......

The OP hasn't - yet - cut her ILs out. She's still willing to see them with her DH, or for them to meet up elsewhere. I'm amazed she's prepared to do that.

Do all of the flamers think it's okay for the OP to be verbally abused the way she has been ? She should just suck it up ???!!??

She could look "like [you] really did want to go and tried all the options" Gobbolin or she could salvage from self-respect from a toxic situation!

Why oh why does the OP have to make such efforts to placate such unpleasant people!

Catsmother - I think people are suggesting OP "brokers a relationship" as you put it because she says in her OP I don't want to offend the in laws all the time (we have missed a lot of family functions over this).. So I read this as being she wants to find solutions / advice to make something work (or some justification in not going to the event)

I'm not saying there should be efforts to placate. As you will see my comments above are predicated on keeping the upper hand in the situation. My earlier comments also advocate not relying on fucking bugaboo car seat adapters as an excuse and actually addressing the issues of drunkeness and rudeness.

The reason the OP needs to keep the upper hand is that, interestingly, her DH has not cut contact with the PILs post their alleged crazy, rude drunken, pretend cat allergy behaviour. Therefore, unless the OP takes a different position (which it doesn't seem she has or she would have said to the BBQ invitee: "I'm not coming as I don't speak, socialise or meet with the PILs post [insert reason]). Therefore there seems to be an ongoing relationship and my advice is to keep the upper hand in it.

gobbolin A cab to PA from my apartment in downtown and crosstown traffic on a public holiday would take about 45 minutes alone. Secondly, I can t express enough the podunk bus station I would arrive in. Booking a cab ob the 4th would be feutile

stepmooster I go because I like my SIL and my 2 nieces and nephews. How it was phrased to my FIL was that I would be collected and dropped off by a friend going to almost the same way last Thanksgiving. MIL said she needwd me to go bacj with them as she needed me to help her carry pots and pans back. I tried vBulletin to get out of but she was making such a drama about it I cried and said I would rather not be driven around by FIL after a few becausei was 6 months pregnant. SIL backed me up. We both got called rude bitches. I did not go to Christmas dinner.

I understand where you are coming from Gobbolin but actually the OP could keep the upper hand by just not going. She already has the moral high ground IMO.

I think it is really hard to be clear in this situation - with yourself, your dh and the ILs as to just what your boundaries are - and precisely why you are not going. I have felt similar - and have not been entirely accommodating/100% biddable re. meeting up with my toxic ILs - but have pitched it as down to practical issues. In a way what I want to say is that I will no longer be bullied.

The OP is probably reasonable, pleasant person who is a bit too unsure of her ground to be directly assertive with them over their behaviour. So it manifests itself in a not 100% committed approach to pull out all the stops to see them. You can hardly blame her for that...

BTW OP, apologies if I am wrongly projecting my own experience on to yours!

I would have thought catsmother and Mixxy, that you either have a relationship with the IL's or you don't. No right or wrong, but if you are going to spend all that money on taxis in order to go to the IL's for a family event that is not exactly 'going no contact'. I don't think you can have a foot in either camp.

You either don't have contact with the MIL or you do. But if contact is going to be maintained then bygones need to be bygones and not dredged up each and every time.

To continue to hold grudges when IL's are trying to offer an olive branch, ok its drink driving but it's an olive branch is not giving the maintaining contact thing a fair crack. Mixxy if you are serious about this then give it one last try with fresh eyes, if anything at least the DH can see you made a genuine effort to get along. Otherwise I think he's going to be confused by all of you, he loves you all remember.

Having been in a relationship with a non-driver, who was foreign and had a foreign licence who would moan and complain about the absolute effort involved to get up to my folks to see us one xmas, when I was already there because he needed to get a tube, a train and then taxi did get me a bit peed off. Nothing stopping him getting lessons to drive here, in the whole 4 years of our relationship I had to drive everywhere out of London, holidays, trips to the coast etc. Learning to drive would be a nice gesture to your DH if nothing else.

Mixxy cross post - sorry, as I said I don't know the whole back story. From what you say I think you are right to be annoyed. Maybe it's coming up to the time soon when you make a decision on the contact/no contact thing?

No, you're right probably. My MIL is totally toxic though, SIL is nice.

Mixxy, can I ask, why do you have a relationship with these people? Is it just because SIL and BIL are nice people and you want to stay in touch with them?

If either set of parents called either of us a rude bitch/bastard, I can promise you that the DD or DS of the offending DGPs would come down on them like a ton weight and they wouldn't be within an ass's roar of us until they'd apologised, and meant it!

I think looking into the car service is a good idea. In my limited experience, they tend to be cheaper for things like this.

Still really don't understand why you're going though. You're a better person than me.

You are under no obligation whatsoever to go to this event.

They have invited you, you don't fancy it, you decline invitation.

And that should be the end of it.

Whether you drive, use adaptors, use cabs, get driven by a drunk old man is neither here nor there.

It's a holiday, getting to their BBQ will be a royal pain in the arse, you have a more pleasant offer.

So you say no.

Even if you and they were best of buds that would be the way to go.

Dragging your arse all over Manhattan and Jersey in 34 degree heat and high humidity with a 4 month old baby is just stupid.

To be honest, they are both very elderly. I'm not going to cut contact and make a big family rift so they both die not knowing their grandson and making DH miss theor final years and destroy his relationship with his siblings. Frankly, I can tough it because I see an end. I'm not yet 35, I've got time. But I'm not hauling shit miles in this heat for hours for anything less than a wedding, or better yet a funeral for the victims of a multi car pile up.

I'm not sure you have to make a 100% decision re contact. Just don't go when your DH can't - although I realise this may be fairly often in your case. Try not to get too involved as to why you can't, and then be calm and seemingly pleasant when you do see them. No extra effort, no confidences, no enormous warmth, no expectations of a wonderful relationship - nothing they can point to as bad behaviour from you.

That's what I do now - I regained some self-respect and oddly they seem to accept that they cannot continue to bully me.

x-post OP. Yes, have had similar fantasies myself!

I love the argument that the op has chosen to live in a country where culturally it's more common to drink and drive and therefore she should suck it up. That's fascinating. Is drink driving less dangerous if it's culturally acceptable them? Does a magical crash mat appear underneath people hit by these drink drivers then? Amazing stuff.