Update on EA

[faulkernegger]

I posted some weeks ago about DP's suspicious friendship, and even though we have talked about it (I've said I feel uncomfortable, children have noticed etc) it's still going on.
He has been attentive and loving, and when I asked if we were ok he looked me in the eye and said 'yes'. However, a few evenings ago about 11pm he took his phone into the loo. When he came out I challenged him - why on earth do you need to take your phone into the loo at 11 o'clock at night? to which he replied - I had it in my pocket on the way upstairs. Well he didn't - it had been on the bedside table. So I said - you;re not telling me the truth and I want you to think about why you're not telling the truth.
A couple of days later he took me aside and said he'd made a decision to step back from this woman, because I clearly thought that 'something' was going on. I felt so relieved.
But, having a gnawing feeling still, I did some checking on his mobile phone bill online ( about the only thing he's forgotten to change his password for) and he seems to have called her more often and for longer, since that conversation!

What do I do now? confront again and ask exactly HOW this is stepping back? or, as my sister says, back off, be sweetness and light and give him more time to end it.
I have been for an initial assessment at Relate to see of there's anything I can do about 'me' that will help the relationship, but I feel there's no point if his mind is elsewhere.
Help!

The more you reveal about him, the worse he sounds.

Do you mean he regrets splitting up from his ex or regrets cheating on her?

Is he still in the spare room?

You are worth so much more than this, you do realise that don't you?

He knows damn well that he us the controlling one. Also I'm not surprised that he had feelings for his ex- I imagine he is someone who has more respect for women who stand up to him. That's often the case, with men like him. It's almost as if they want to control but increase their interest in those they can't.

Still, please don't get too diverted by why he is like he is. I did that, and wasted a heap of time ignoring the obvious- which was why I let him, and what I needed to do about it.

The poster who said about boundaries and bottom lines is right. Did you manage to read that book on boundaries I mentioned?

Tessa6 was the poster.

Also, you do realise, don't you, that he doesn't really have a grand passion for OW, even though he thinks he does? What she is to him is a great big mirror in which he can see himself gloriously reflected. She is just a way for him to relieve his own feelings of low self worth.

Do not low him to take the role of victim. He is messing with your head.

Oh...and if you ever did decide to call time on this relationship, either temporarily or permanently, it won't be because of a music lesson but because your partner has told you he is in love with someone else. I'm not saying you should be that blunt with your dcs but that is really what this is all about.

Hang on - so he teaches this kid at 5pm, mum goes out at 5.15pm and then at 5.30pm he walks out of the house and leaves her 11 year old home alone? That doesn't quite ring true. Are you sure this is happening?

Also - does the n/c ring true for you? When he's said that they are 'like twins' and have so much in common, if only they'd met earlier, yada yada. I can't imagine that he (who refuses to give up the music lessons) is suddenly having no communication with her. Surely he has another phone or e-mail addresses? He doesn't sound like a contrite man so it doesn't quite ring true that he's doing this for you.

Why didn't he go through with his engagement and why is he not married to you, the mother of his children? Alarm bells are deafening me!

I don't know how you can be so so sure they are not in contact either, OP. It's easy to delete texts and set up new email addresses. If he knows the best thing for your relationship is him giving up the music lessons and he doesn't do it, I'm not sure why he would agree to give up contact with her and go through with it either. Surely he's just be more careful, wait for things to go back to normal a bit, then lie to you about who he's meeting one night and go and meet her? it doesn't feel like you can trust him to do what you want and what's important to you in the least.

I had a Tigger ex. Self-styled.

In retrospect - and I don't know if this rings true for you, inthedusk - it's quite a convenient way to 'bounce' through life doing whatever the fuck you like, no matter what it does to others, and then getting all puppy-eyed and pouty when things don't go your way (and getting sympathy from people who really should know better) because 'it's just what he's like'.

Sod that. He isn't innocent, he's perfectly well aware of what he's doing to you, and he's prepared not only to do it, but to make you out the bad guy.

You are worth more than this. You are worth more than being the consolation prize in his fantasy romance saga. Repeatedly, from your last post.

I think all anyone on this thread wants for you is for you to recognise, demand - and get - the value placed on you that you deserve.

I feel really sorry for you, OP.

If the lesson is only half an hour, why is HE so bloody committed to doing it? He would rather keep teaching a child for half an hour a week even when he knows that it is making his partner unhappy? It seems like such an easy thing to give up.

Obviously for him it ISN'T an easy thing to give up. He doesn't want to let go of his connection to the OW; he's determined to preserve it at all costs. Even at the cost of his relationship with you.

This situation just throws up more and more questions. No wonder you're struggling with it inthedusk.

I don't believe for one minute that he's risking his relationship with the OP to be honest. He knows he can have his cake and eat it. He knows OP is going nowhere, despite checking out estate agents etc. He knows he can swan out to his music lesson and OP will be at home worrying but he doesn't care. He is incredibly arrogant.

I'd go with Fairenuf's suggestion - stop 'controlling', 'cornering' 'blackmailing' him (his words) and let him carry on with the 'lessons'. Become indifferent. Stop with the nagging about the lessons/her. No separation, huh? So all you can do is carry on.

He must be loving this - 2 women at loggerheads over him! Give him enough rope. If he goes to her, then he is out of your house.

He reckons he can 'do this', can keep his relationship 'in a box' - he is the starring role in his fantastic game with the 2 of you - you offering comort, family, stability; she is offering the fun side, his 'other half', his 'solemate'...

I wouldn't have him back in my bed though.

Your right Lazarus, he knows hes got Faulk over a barrell, this relationship will end, when he chooses to walk out.

He said that my threatening to leave was emotional blackmail ( yeah, and?)

As someone who has been confused for years by a smooth-talking, charming and always-right H, I'd like to challenge what your OH said there. It looks (from your "yeah, and?") like you think he's got a point.

He hasn't. To say, "If you keep up the lessons, I will leave," is not emotional blackmail. Not in the slightest. (Well, unless you never had any intention of carrying it through - but I don't think you are clear enough what you want for that to be true.)

What it is is stating your limits. You have decided your boundary: what you will do in that situation. You are not controlling his behaviour, forcing him to stop lessons. You are admitting he has a choice, but saying that that choice has consequences, because you too have choices.

Emotional blackmail is more along the lines of: "If you keep up the lessons, I will hurt you." It does fit well with his general self-absorption for him to believe that you would only leave in order to hurt him, rather than for anything 'inconsequential' like your own dignity!

It is indeed stating a boundary and not emotional blackmail.

Here's what I don't get - above and beyond everything else that has been said and done:

HOW can your relationship possibly move forward when you watch him walk out of that door week after week to go to HER house, to do the music lesson that you have asked him not to do? The music lesson that you have threatened to leave him over?

If it were me - every week would feel like being kicked in the teeth all over again. It would hurt too much to ever move forward.

I also feel highly dubious about the arrangement details as he cites them and about the N/C thing, but that's an aside. This really is the main point.

And if I were in Mr Inthedusk's shoes, however justified I felt I was, I COULD NOT sit there giving a kid a music lesson knowing it was causing pain to my partner and threatening my relationship. Because I love my partner too much to do that to them, and value my relationship too much to ever risk it.

The only reason I can see someone doing that - prioritising 'winning the argument' over the OP's feelings at best, and prioritising the other woman over the OP at worst (and I suspect it's both) is if they were very disengaged with their partner, or had a very strong attachment elsewhere. Again, I suspect it's both.

Please, OP, this week when he walks out of that house again to go to her house, to choose what she has asked over what you have asked, to prioritise what he thinks is right or what he wants over how you feel - please take some time to take stock about what this really means.

Great post Cosy. I don't really have anything else to add apart from that I do, I do understand how important it is for you to save this relationship, inthedusk. But again, I implore you to consider whether it is really fair for the entirety of that responsibility to weigh heavy on your shoulders. It is heartbreaking to see your determination to keep your family together manifest in this devastating compromise.

If this was my OH (and once upon a time, it fundamentally was), I wouldn't believe he loved me anymore. Not one bit.

My ex had an EA, given the chance it would have gone further, i asked for no contact, he promised it, but they still contacted each other, like a fool i stayed, 8 months later, i took an overdose and he left me that day, 2 days later travelled 300 miles to be with her.

That was 4 years ago, and thank fuck hes gone, he didnt love me nor care about me at all. Completely self centred.

He too said i was controlling for asking no contact.

After she didnt want him, he tried to crawled back to me, by then i realised my worth.

Ezio Sorry to hear your story - sometimes there are just no words. But I'm glad you saw your own value and I truly hope you're better off and happy now. (Hope your ex is miserable too!).

I think inthedusk does know her own worth, deep down. But her partner can't or won't. I think she is frightened of the unknown - being on her own with 2dcs. It's not as scary as she thinks. I really hope she finds a way that doesn't leave him to carry on as he pleases. I couldn't live like that personally.

One thing is certain - he doesn't deserve inthedusk or their dcs.

Lazarus, i've moved on to the point where me and ex get on quite well.

I too was terrified of the unknown, PND and a toddler, but the unknown is better than holding onto a man who just doesnt see you there.

Looking out from your spot, you see nothing but dark scary shit, when you looking in on your spot, you realise there is no need to be afraid, because now your in control, you dont have to negotiate feelings of others you feel obliged to protect, you can negotiate your own, its not easy, but its possible.

Faulk, dont hold onto him because your scared of letting go, because then he wont ever change, hes abusing your fear.

Take a long hard look at him and ask yourself does he actually love me like i love him, is he protecting my feelings, can you say for 100% certainty, that if you made him choose, you or OW, that he'd pick you. If you even have a tiny doubt in your mind, then you need to work on yourself before you can save your relationship.

Why settle for anything that is about being number 1?

*isnt

You see, I had all this "controlling" nonsense, and it's bollocks. It's cruel, too, because they save their own skin by messing with your head.

It is controlling to try to force people to change who they are and what they do or believe. However, it is NOT controlling to state what you are willing to tolerate in your life or marriage. That is your right. If others don't accept that, and respect that boundary, you have a right to act- usually a consequence for them. They were part of that choice, by refusing to respect your boundary.

If I ever did "control" prior to his cheating, I was bloody crap at it, because it was in one ear and out the other. And for my part, I complained and complained but did nothing else about it, like a fool.

I have lost count of the women who have come on here with husbands who have been unreasonable to live with in many ways, and the wife had objected. Then they cheat, and squeal control.

The real problem with these men is that they have a habit of refusing to take responsibility for themselves, and way before any cheating too. They cant control THEMSELVES.

Exactly One, its a tool that men like that use to control the objector, because what woman likes to be labelled controlling and manipulative.

Its Transference at its worse, project to save your own skin, no matter the casualties, even if its there own kids.

I tried to hold my family together too, Faulk. It was not appreciated one bit.

In the end, my (teenage) children staged an intervention, lovely gorgeous lot that they are!
And he told me he wasn't going to counselling
[And he treated me with extreme disrespect]
And I found he was back in touch with OW.

The End.

(But he doesn't want a divorce! He STILL hasn't worked out the true £££ cost of his unloving behaviour. They are batshitcrazy.

Or, can anyone else come up with a better reason? Why would someone like Mr Faulk treat Faulk like a worthless POS and NOT see he is risking his family and home?????)

It's surprising that the counsellor didn't challenge him on the ongoing contact with OW.

Interesting that he romanticises his ex as well as OW. He seems to regard you (and the DC?) as the "ball and chain" and have no qualms about showing it. Yet he wants all the benefits of a stable relationship (e.g refused to move out of the house). Selfish.

I know you really want to make it work, but there'd be no harm in developing "plan B" in case you change your mind at any time. Gathering info, saving money if you can, being aware of his finances, seeing solicitor for free advice (good preparation info on here), finding out how much house could be worth, benefits and so on. As well as CAB there's lots of info online. And spending more time doing stuff for yourself and with friends.

I think Faulk said that in counselling she agreed that there was no OW and no emotional affair. Not sure why she agreed to that though

Counsellors don't normally get down to business in the first session - they need to build a rapport and understand the issues, IME.

I think the romanticising thing is interesting- again it is about needing to feel good about himself etc etc, rather than seeing himself as half of a responsible equal partnership.