Ending a Ten and a Half year affair

[Gehj]

Im unable to write full background for fear of being recognised but the crux of the problem remains the same... unbelievably I have been having an affair for the above time and it remains as passionate and intense today as it did on day one. The problem... I need to leave because I want a new life of my own as I know he does not have the strength, courage or wherewithal to leave his family. His children are now aged 18-21, his elderly mother (who lost her husband recently) has now come to live with him and he is the prime carer. I know it was morally wrong to become involved with a married man but the attraction was strong and I didn't for one moment, think it would span out 10years!!! How do I find the strength to leave a relationship that provides me with everything that a woman would relish except commitment! i.e love, companionship, support, fun and anything that a newlywed would be proud of. The physical side is as passionate as if we just met. How do I take steps to leave?? I have tried many times and each time we hurt each other, miss what we have and go back. WWYD apart from the suggestion of moving town and that is not feasible as I have children who are at college! He does not want me to leave which makes it all the more difficult.

Math- I do think your post, although with some truth and very valid points in it, is harsh because it simply projects your own beliefs.

You can't accuse someone of being shallow simply because their post is should we say 'articulate' ( maybe the OP is a writer- who knows.)

Neither can you say with any authority that her affair was insubstantial. Maybe it would be to you- but you are not the OP, and to her it may have had plenty of substance. Yes, it lacked commitment which presumably she wanted as some point, but if we applied your idea of insubstantial to other relationships and situations - ie friendships, employment- which are often transitory, then it would follow that they are insubstantial too- which of course they aren't.

I've known a few close friends who got themselves into these kinds of situations which is why I'm a bit more sympathetic, because I know that whatever is written on a forum doesn't show the whole picture or the true person. Posters are judged on every word they write, which does not always truly reflect who they are.

I think the OP was mistaken to post here. This forum is notorious as the home for women who have been cheated on, so it's not the best place for an OW to pour her heart out- ever.

OP- maybe find some good friends in real life who can support you.

Excuse amateur psychology, but I also wondered that you have done precisely what was done to you. Apparently it goes that sometimes the pain of abuse is so intense that the abused identifies with the abuser in order to make 'sense' of it. Which, of course, makes no sense of it at all. An example is (sorry) a child who is sexually abused and then goes on to sexually abuse their own children. Makes no sense.

I also wonder if, along the same lines, you erroneously thought that affairs are the way to go; your husband may have been unkind but, get with the times, this is how modern life is. Perhaps even getting a thrill from being so 'modern'.

I'm casting around, you see. Trying to understand this.

She posted in exactly the right place imo. She needed her bubble popped and that's precisely what has happened (one hopes). Good for all concerned imo - apart from the man I should've thought.

Of course it was essentially insubstantial. She has based the past 10 years on a corner of someone's cloth. He may have crammed quite a lot into that corner but it was a corner nonetheless.

Seeing as the OP herself has said that this thread has challenged her and introduced her to viewpoints she's never encountered in real life, I can't see how anyone would think her posting here has been a bad idea unless it's touching a nerve in the reader.

As for this being the home for hurt wives, lots of contributors to this thread aren't in that position. Threads like this always attract a cross section of posters and this one's no different. There are the true neutrals who've neither dealt with nor had an affair, posters who've been on the receiving end of an affair, people who've had affairs or have been OW and posters who claim to be neutral but aren't.

Forums like this are great for introducing someone to a range of opinions she might never hear in real-life from people who are too invested or too scared to tell the truth. If there's a consensus on a thread from a much larger selection of people than would ever be consulted in real-life- and it's at odds with what that smaller selection of RL people are saying, the most rational conclusion is that the RL stuff is probably getting filtered to spare hurt feelings and to protect the filterers' own interests.

Leaven - I think you need to read this forum more often and more carefully. IME there is an excess of women posting about unfaithful husbands- far more so than most of us ever experience in RL.

There is also- and I am pointing out what many other MNs have said over the years ( and nothing at all to do with me 'the reader' having a nerve touched) that this is NOT the place for the OW to post and expect a fair trial.

I've been here for years Missbopeep and I completely disagree with you. I've seen a lot of threads where an OW has had really good advice. But what makes advice 'good' is subjective. Sometimes the best advice is the type that helps you to see things differently and which challenges long-held views.

Also, of course we're going to read about painful events on a forum more than we encounter them in real life. Isn't that rather obvious?

The bottom line is the OP has said she's found this thread helpful so I'm wondering why you are second-guessing what she herself has said?

We can all relate to betrayal, it doesn't have to have happened to us. It is a core fear, we are all vulnerable to it, particularly if (as?) we are tuned into ourselves and our needs. The OP tuned out at some point, I think.

I'm slightly at a loss as to why the scorned women's perspective is seen as irrelevant. Surely this is exactly the sort of information the OP needs as she seems very cut off from the normal empathetic responses of shame and guilt that her poor behaviour should elicit.

It's not about pillorying the OP, but giving her insight into the hurt she has caused to both herself, her children and her MM family. At present she seems to be able to see some of this on an intellectual level but is cut off from it emotionally. The bad feelings are necessary and healing, they will help her to break from this destructive pattern of behaviour and stop her repeating it in the future - saving her from them is not the kindness that you think it is.

Missbopeep, I disagree too. You have to think about why people would post for instance. You are more likely to start a thread if you have a problem - my relationship doesn't seem to be working, what do I do? - for instance, than if everything's hunky dory - my relationship is great, what do I do?

When you think of how many people are on MN, posting and lurking, then the number of people with serious relationship problems is small.

Then think about the sort of responses people get here, as opposed to some other sites. Mostly here it's no nonsense. There are many other sites where it's figurative cups of tea and a shoulder. Some people only want that, but some people want the truth no matter how much it hurts.

I agree Wahla. Reading threads on here from women who've been hurt by affairs really helped me when a relative's marriage hit trouble. That perspective in all its painful detail and realism wasn't available to me in real life, but then neither was the OW's perspective and at the time, I'd only encountered OWs who I'd never have chosen to be friends with for lots of other reasons, so it was useful to get a range of perspectives from rather different women.

I agree too that the real value is in the perspective you're frightened of seeing and hearing about.

''Some people only want that, but some people want the truth no matter how much it hurts.''

I think it's fine when it actually is the truth: ''what you've done is damaging to this man's wife, their children, potentially your children, since you let them in on it. The best thing for you to do is extract yourself from this situation, as you will not be able to expect anything more from this man than what he is currently giving you.''

But I think it's unhelpful and potentially even dishonest to expand with long, vindictive posts describing how the relationship between this OW and the man was nothing, empty, meaningless, a sham, pure fantasy.

We don't know anything about the type of connection they may have had.

Their relationship has been going on for 10 years, and they appear to see each other very regularly. If it was an insubstantial shell of a fuck buddy type scenario, it would have run out of steam after year one, and the man would have moved on. I can perfectly see how a man or woman may be married, but in love with the person they are having an affair with, yet still not be prepared to leave their marriage. It may be that their marriage is comfortable and provides them with a sense of security and friendship. They may have moved on to a sort of platonic love towards their spouse. If on top of that you are starting to feel a bit older and starting to think about the days when you'll be old and frail and the importance of family, PLUS the person you are in love with and having an affair with lives ''a stone's throw away''... there really is no reason to leave. That doesn't mean he can't love the OP - as I said, I would assume if this has been going on for a decade, that he does.

It strikes me as unfair to all come crashing down on the OP and try to emotionally manipulate her into thinking she's been living a lie. She has been living a lie - her husband's lie to his wife, not to her.

Good point/s waddle , but I'm not sure we can compartmentalise like that? Their relationship was based on a lie - to whom is irrelevant. Can something good and true come from an unstable, faulty base? The fruits of this have been not good - more and more faulty adjustments were made to facilitate it. Or perhaps now I'm getting monochrome about it. Perhaps it is possible to 'love' two people at once. Though I can't help thinking that the fruits tell their tale.

It is a lie to herself though waddle - convincing herself she is content with that when really she isn't.

What a lot of very odd projecting, Bopeep. Who are you?

Math is correct when she says that [the emotions/experiences/life of] affairs are shallow. By their very nature they are shallow, come on! They are about fantasy, avoidance, hidden masked aggression, deceit, entitlement and narcissism. They are NOT healthy coping mechanisms.

Also, presumably to protect herself, OP talks with a lack of affect which people have commented on. I think she is being a lot braver than people give her credit for, which when she shows, you will notice MN giving her more slack.

And all the other points made to you.

Waddlecakes: "I can perfectly see how a man or woman may be married, but in love with the person they are having an affair with, yet still not be prepared to leave their marriage." And you think this is fine?

Your post is all them, them them.

What part of they are fucking other people over, they are maintaining a position of advantage over other people through deceit, are you not getting??? There is NOTHING fine about infidelity.

Let's see now:

in the world of employment, if a person is employed at a bank, but takes extra consultancy work at another bank (in the same area) on the side, what is that called?
I think you will find that it is called FRAUD, and that the defense 'well, I didn't want to lose your benefits, but I also wanted a bit extra on the side and you should be happy for me' - doesn't wash.
What about the world of the military? An officer also works for the Chinese, passing on his years of experience in submarines. Why not, he wants to do it! Maybe he was pissed off because he got passed over for promotion...
I think that is called TREASON and their little pity party doesn't wash.

If the 'real world' makes such a fuss about these little infractions, why do people think fucking women and children over is no big deal??????

Wellwobbly- Dunno what you mean about 'who are you'? You mean you want my real name?

Who are you?

Good post waddle.

I am not for one minute defending the OP or affairs per se. But I do think that it's inaccurate to call all of this living a lie. For a long time the OP was we assume hanging on in there hoping her OM would leave his wife for her. Hope is a powerful emotion. It keeps you going when your logical brain says otherwise. How do I know? Because I have close friends who have gone through this. I also have very close friends who have been cheated on. I have also known couples- my parents' generation- who had affairs that lasted 20+ years.

I think wobble your mistake it to reduce an 'affair' to just a fuck- which is how you seem to think of it by your last sentence or two. All the people I have known who had affairs would say the sex was the least important part- it was always about a whole lot more than that.

I don't condone affairs at all but I don't think it does any good getting into a state about it all on a forum and resorting to verbal abuse- the OP asked for support on how to end it, not for a character assassination.

''What part of they are fucking other people over, they are maintaining a position of advantage over other people through deceit, are you not getting??? There is NOTHING fine about infidelity.''

wobbly I never said it was fine. I said it didn't warrant spouting vindictive BS about how a woman's 10 year relationship, in or out of a marriage (because whether you like it or not, an affair is a relationship), was a lie and a sham. It hasn't been. It sounds as if it has been something quite deep and caring. And now the OW has slowly started to want a little more, and needed advice on how to end it.

Wellwobbly affairs are by there very nature cruel, but what muddies the waters and makes them less straight forward than a military man working for the other side is the fact they are all about human emotions. I don't doubt the OP loves the man in question very much.... possibly even more than his wife. His wife will have lived through the last ten years of her marriage with a distant emotionally unavailable man. If she doesn't already know about the affair, you can bet she has guessed. I am sure she lost the blind hopeful love we feel for our partners before we move in with them and have to live with their not so perfect habits. On the other hand OP only ever sees him on his best behaviour... it's like a continuous holiday romance. She is probably besotted.

I don't blame 'my' OW at all. I think she had a lack of empathy, and dubious morals, but the affair was not her fault. She was also very badly hurt by it. The person at fault is the person who is married, man or woman.

I am a MN member, who has lived through this particular emotional trauma, and I don't attack OW on here. I'm not alone, there are others. As with every internet forum some posters are more vociferous than others, and those with extreme views probably post more often.

'All the people I have known who had affairs would say the sex was the least important part- it was always about a whole lot more than that.'

Bopeep you are quite right. What does Shirley Glass call it? The positive image of the self shining back from the lover's eyes. My H said he liked her 'because she was nice to me'. ie, she never troubled his little mind with demands or challenges, only feelgood compliments and shallow chitchat. Unlike me the shrewish wife, who talked about bills and emotional upsets, poor little lamb.

Tbh? He and the OW are far more suited emotionally than we are! He doesn't like hearing this, but it is true.

But it still makes it false (this narcissistic supply). Because it is unreal and undeserved. Someone who is cheating, telling a cheat how wonderful they are? Two rather selfish people going on a mutual admiration trip? A fantasy life, the feelgood smoke blowing being worth crushing other people for? No. It is all wrong. Affairs are wrong and a huge mistake. it is interesting in counselling that both our ICs instantly dismissed the OW as irrelevant, or a symbol at best. OWs are also used! They are used in the avoidance of real issues.

I for one have never attacked the OP, disparaged her or called her names, I have only talked to her.

I actually have admired the considerable courage she has shown in acknowledging difficult stuff, and the huge moral courage she has shown to admit despite the barraking, that MN has made her start to think. I like courage.

Saying that the OP hasn't been living a lie is as illogical as saying she definitely has. No-one posting here (including her) knows the absolute truth of some of this and the only ones who do are the man- and to an extent his wife.

When there's no way of knowing the truth about a situation, the next best thing is to look at what the protagonists' actions suggest.

So it's unlikely that a 10 year relationship was motivated by sex alone, on either party's side. But as the OP herself has acknowledged, it's not real-life either, in the sense that that they've been able to have a normal, open relationship that comes from living with someone or spending nights, mornings and holidays together on a regular basis.

And when a man stays put in his marriage despite his children reaching adulthood and some of them leaving home- and when both he and his wife aren't financially dependent on one another, that means it's unlikely he's being honest about what's keeping him there.

And when a financially independent, bright and successful woman doesn't appear to suspect anything for 10 years, that suggests her husband's behaviour is giving her no cause for concern and they have a full, sexual and loving marriage just as much as alternative explanations such as she's a 'blind eyer' or is having extra relationships herself. None of what this man allegedly told his wife at any point has ever been corroborated by the OP.

When the OP reviews this relationship, it's best that she keeps an open mind on what are lies and what are truths. Only things she knows for definite and which have been corroborated can ever be described as 'truth'. The rest might be lies- or truth- but in the absence of a truth drug the next best thing is to look at the actions of the people involved and then come to a judgement.

Quite right, Leaven. I think OP has done quite a lot of self-questioning already. Yes, she might have protected herself somewhat, but I sense quite a lot of honesty there.

What are lies and what are truths? Why do people choose arm's-length liaisons (which is what the triangulation of an affair is - to REDUCE intimacy)?

If the OP is still out there, I hope she comes back and starts exploring this stuff?

Are you out there, OP? I don't think anyone should feel they cannot comment on a thread they started, especially if musing things out loud can help them clarify what it is they really feel, and really want to say.

Hey, OP! (Pharrel) Come over here!

I think burning bridges by telling his wife - maybe anonymously - is the only way due to addictive nature of your relationship.... Otherwise you won't leave.

That would change nothing. Either the wife wouldn't leave so husband could carry on or she would leave and the husband is then "free."

From the OP:

...it remains as passionate and intense today as it did on day one.

anything that a newlywed would be proud of

The physical side is as passionate as if we just met.

What does that sound like? It's not cosy, well-worn, slippers around the fireside. It's quite clear what is a central pin in this relationship - so less of the 'it's not about sex after 10 years'

Missbopeep -- "I do think your post, although with some truth and very valid points in it, is harsh because it simply projects your own beliefs.
You can't accuse someone of being shallow simply because their post is should we say 'articulate' ( maybe the OP is a writer- who knows.)
Neither can you say with any authority that her affair was insubstantial."

I'm just going by the words I quoted from the OP. People don't just pluck random words from the air when they post. The words they use reveal their feelings. If she wanted to say something about an affair that had real intimacy or love then I don't think she would have written something that reads like ad copy for a dishwasher from the 1950s 'a relationship that provides me with everything that a woman would relish except commitment! i.e love, companionship, support, fun and anything that a newlywed would be proud of.' A newlywed in 1958 would be proud of her nice dishwasher. A relationship is not the commodity it is described as in the OP.

She didn't want a fair trial. She wanted advice on grieving for the wasted years. Part of that may involve sucking up what others think of what she has been doing and acknowledging that she may have hurt other people.

However, no matter what your vantage point here, the OP shot herself in the foot in a major way by allowing herself to be strung along for ten years. I think it will be important to figure out what need was filled by this fundamentally unavailable man. Often when someone clings to a person who is not available they know this at some level but cling on because of fears - of abandonment (if you never really have him he can't abandon you), of loneliness (combined with willfully blind optimism), fear of commitment on the part of the stringed-along (who knows deep down this is going nowhere but meanwhile it is fun, 'everything a woman would relish', etc). Maybe ten years down the road the OP has noticed the crows' feet and the grey hair or two creeping in and reality has sunk in along with realisation of a deeper need than the needs she thought she was filling when she embarked on all the fun. She needs to apologise to herself for shortchanging herself all these years before she moves on.

Ten years is a big chunk out of her own DCs' lives when she was wrapped up in an insubstantial relationship that by her own admission her children were not involved in. They could have had a caring stepfather with a real presence in their lives, someone to enrich their childhoods. Of course she could have ended up with a jerk too, but that is neither here nor there. She devoted energy and passion to a man who had no intention of involving himself in her children's lives either. He was content to just take from their lives instead. It's possible he energised her and gave her something to look forward to that helped her to slog through the single mum week. However, so might a cocaine habit.

That is a lot of years in the (selfish, etc.) man's life when his children might have liked to have him available for trips or to hang out with but he chose to pay conjugal visits to the OP instead. Or maybe his wife might have liked to see more of him, to get DIY jobs done around the house. Or just to hang out in friendly fashion. But maybe all of that goes without saying and maybe that is a thought for another thread, but the OP needs to acknowledge what she took from children and from a woman who probably has a lot of unanswered questions about her relationship and now has to take care of her MIL for the foreseeable future.

Goodness math- do you feel better for getting all of that out?
It's a bit of a long lecture with a huge amount of conjecture going on- all in your head without any facts if I may say so!

So just a short one from me. I believe to the contrary- that sometimes the words people use are not accurate. I know people in RL who post on various forums on MN and they've confided how they become really annoyed ( off forum) because posters misread , misinterpret, and misunderstand their posts, and then they have to keep going back, saying 'I didn't mean that, I meant this.'

Unless someone is a professional writer, or spends hours pouring over every word they post ( which is highly unlikely in an emotional state) then it's questionable if their words are totally accurate.

wobbly maybe I've misinterpreted your last post but it reads as if you could just possibly be goading the OP to come back- so she can be kicked, or lectured again? I do hope not. I made the point to her that she had said she would leave the thread ( just like she has said she would leave this OM) so as a measure of her determination to each, she should show she means what she says.

People who post here are real people, with lives and real feelings. Sometimes these threads turn into a sport, with a real pack mentality, almost appearing to be a competition as who can be the most wounding, under the guise of being 'helpful' to the OP.

Not nice.