Support for those in Emotionally Abusive relationships: 23

[CharlotteCollinsismovingon]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you?re dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans - He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples' therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change:
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials This is a site containing material for men who want to change - please don?t give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

Evening all.

Breathe really sorry hear about the toxicity from your DSis. Families can be brilliant, but equally they can be mince. Sending you hugs, you deserve better. Don't think you need a kick re serving the papers, maybe more a gentle and understanding nudge to help you take that next step. Consider it given.

FFF - don't know what you have decided to do about tonight, to go or not. I met up with FW - at his insistence request only a few days after moving out. It was just him setting the agenda again. Same with his requests demands for us to have 'dates'. It really all is about them being in control. I could write for ever (but I wont! ) on me trying to set boundaries in the beginnings of our split and him crashing all over them, repeatedly.
I don't know what to recommend, I know how hard it is to want to go but still not want to, I'd only perhaps say that if you go, don't agree to anything. Just go to listen and reflect.

Singe, all I have to say is !!!!

better it's alright. I've long thought that this whole thing was EH going through a midlife crisis anyway. He was resentful of any responsibility, wanting to do things that (as a married dad) weren't really feasible (or within budget or time constraints), and didn't want to do anything but veg and relax and just play and drink. I actually still think that to some extent.

Alice I am sure there are many times you too would like to do things such as relax. I really don't understand how if your partner says he loves you, he can't understand that we feel like that too, we just don't do it because we can't and have other responsibilities. We don't blame the other person for it. If we criticise them for not taking responsibility we are just being abusive.
My exp is like that, it is child like and when he can't get what he wants he throws a strop, he is an angry child. I can't reason with that or do much about it, anything really. I could never give him everything he wants, he would always want more. No matter how much I did he would want more...

Hi all, struggling to keep up with the thread today, so sending love and strength to all, along with life vests to those who need them.

I'm desperately trying to keep swimming, which is hard on the roller coaster that my life seems to have become.

I agree Alice - I sometimes think this was part of FW's problem, he likes the idea of family life, but the day-to-day reality of it doesn't 'fit' with what he feels entitled to. I don't think it's a midlife crisis thing though, just being a twunt and thinking it's ok to be like that!

very, there's no requirement to keep up with everyone. Just know that if you need support, you can come on here.

just being a twunt and thinking it us ok to be like that that exactly that.

Hi all

I went. I picked him up and went for dinner. It was so awkward. 22 years together and it felt like a first date.
We talked. He told me that he felt like an outsider. Me and the kids against him. He didn't feel that he had enough help or support. He is bored with our daily routine. He is having a hard time understanding my anxiety problem. Not enough sex
My response.
He chooses not to include himself in things to do with the kids. Me and kids have great relationship and I'm not going to change that. I could try and be more eager and willing to do new activities. I can't help that I suffer with anxiety. If he was nice to me I would want more sex.

My main problems with him. His mood swings, name calling, jealousy, controlling.
He asked me how He could change and I suggested therapy.
His first response was bollocks no.
Then ok I will go. He cried and he said I will go I will do whatever it takes to get you back.

I am stunned. He always said he would never go for therapy. I said I will make an appointment.

Thank you pony you fit and forty girl, you xxx

FFF well done for meeting him and staying strong. I have been through similar with my fw. May I sound a possibly depressing note of caution - my fw cried, had moment of self clarity, went to 2 sessions of counselling and then his unbreakable self delusions kicked right back in and he called the very superb counsellor who was being very even handed a bitch and refused to go back

Breathe - yep I must admit I can see my h doing the same. Do you recommend I go with him for the first one, all or any? I don't know whether I trust him to go alone. How will I know if he has been?

I do want to give him the benefit of doubt and at least try. If he kicked off then at least I have done everything I can do.

Am I deluded?

FFF You notice everything he brought up was YOUR fault. It doesn't sound like he took responsibility for ANY of his behaviour. And well done on you for not allowing him to shift responsibility to you.

I will agree with Fly on this though - EH did the same thing - and counselling just appeared to be useless. If they agree with EH, then they support his side that it's all my fault, if they don't agree, then they're "useless" and he quits the counselling. Been that route a couple times, unfortunately. I'd still like him to get counselling, however, it makes no difference whatsoever to the fact that we're separated. I wouldn't go back with him because of it.

And DON'T make the appointment for him. I made that mistake. Helped him get it set up and pushed him to go. Then I got the "I did it because you pushed me/nagged me to go - it's bollocks" routine. If he really wants to change, HE will make the arrangements and HE will make sure he goes. It will give you an interesting insight into how motivated he really is.

You're not deluded. Just sad, I suppose. Having been through this part of it a number of times, I would caution you not to pin your hopes on this. Sorry.

One thing to think about - he said he would do anything to get you back... but did he take responsibility for his behaviour and admit that he was in the wrong? Because what good is counselling going to do if he doesn't acknowledge that he even has a problem?

Whooops! Reading that back, The "you're not deluded, just sad, I suppose" sounds a bit flippant. I mean sad as in genuinely sad/upset/unhappy... not sad in the "lame/pathetic" sense.

FFF keep an eye out for the "reeling them in" behaviour though. Fishing reference, sorry, but he will only let the line out (give in) enough to get you hooked again so he can reel you back in line. He got you to dinner, then laid it all out like it was your fault (all the problems). When you didn't meekly agree that it was all your fault, he let out a bit of line saying he'd do what you want. He let out enough line to agree to going to counselling. He most likely figures at this point, that's all that is needed. He'll come up with 90 bazillion reasons why he can't do it, probably have to reschedule a few times (due to whatever he can come up with) and then give up, hoping you will allow it to blow over. By then, he'll figure he's got you back in line at home.

FFF I wouldn't recommend going to counselling with him. The counselling isn't to fix the relationship. It's to fix/help him to change.

You don't sound deluded at all. I think we'd all try anything to make it better. From my own experience, nsdh went to counselling religiously and of his own volition (I didn't ask him to and at that point was not even returning his calls). There was a massive difference in his behaviour and attitude. He did become the person I'd always thought he could be iyswim. It was amazing.

But within a year of us getting back together, it had started to slip. He stopped counselling and his new behaviours slowly eroded. . .

When we later went to counselling as a couple, it became more about blame than change.

It's not that I think they can't ever change but it's an effort every day, and I just wish I had been more alert to looking for signs of slipping. Perhaps if I had been, or if nsdh had kept going to counselling, we wouldn't be where we are now.

It's not that I think they can't ever change but it's an effort every day, and I just wish I had been more alert to looking for signs of slipping. Perhaps if I had been, or if nsdh had kept going to counselling, we wouldn't be where we are now.

Winnie see, this is where I get frustrated (at myself) because this puts us in the position of policing their behaviour. And that every day effort to make sure he's behaving within acceptable limits should be HIS effort, not mine. But ultimately, it ends up being me. And that's something I wasn't prepared to live with forever.

FFF - well done for standing your ground. But notice he only agreed to go to therapy because you were about to leave? Counselling will only work if he is open to it, and if he's only going because otherwise you will leave (and not because he recognises his behaviour is a problem) then I'm afraid it will not work. At all. So for now, you need to be strong and stay apart from him. If he's genuine about wanting to change, he will respect the fact that you need space right now. I know you want to believe he can change. I know because you are exactly where I was one year ago.

I'm all for giving him a chance - but it needs to be him doing the trying, not you. You carry on as you are, and let him show you the changes he is making off his own back. As Alice says - he finds the therapist, makes the arrangements, etc. In the meantime, no more 'dates' just because he insists you should be seeing each other. That's what mine did, and through that he managed to reel me back in part of the way.

My FW went to counselling, seemed to accept that his behaviour was wrong, was quite proactive in getting help once I'd shown I was serious and left him. But while it did help him in some ways, it didn't stop his behaviour - just made him more subtle about trying to control and manipulate me, and when I challenged him on this he was very strident about 'I have changed, you are not recognising this, therefore it is now you that has the problem'.

You will need to travel this path in your own way, but being aware that he is not changing/trying to reel you back in will help you see things with more clarity. This is just the start, you will need lots of support in the coming months, in RL and on here. Have you contacted Women's Aid? They are a great sounding board. And although I was asking FW to contact Respect, I also contacted them myself for their perspective on my situation. Both very helpful.

Alice you are entirely right (about not having to police their behaviour) and I realised it after I'd typed it. It isn't our responsibility to ensure they maintain their behaviour. It can only be their responsibility.

However, I wasn't alert enough to changes in me. I thought I was aware and I wasn't because once I'd gone back there was also a dynamic of it being harder to leave because I'd made the decision to return iyswim?

And I'd told everyone it was better and he had changed, and I had changed . . . and actually that meant I excused the first small hints that everything wasn't rosy instead of recognising them as gleaming FW beacons and getting out.

And it's only now that I'm realising that yes I was stronger and happier when I was away, and my slipping into the dynamic of being abused isn't a fault in my character. It doesn't mean I wasn't 'fixed' when I was out of this relationship. It just means this is what this relationship does to me. Sorry, I'm thinking out loud and I'm not sure if any of those sentences make sense

Alice - I know what you meant lol. Not deluded but sad.

H has gone out with DS for dinner(fathers day). I was invited but I don't want to get into family meals out.

Winnie and Pony thank you for your support. I know what he is trying to do. I could have written it. I am better and stronger when I don't see him. And the atmosphere of the house without him is much more relaxed.

I have done the right thing asking him to leave. I now need to be stronger and say no to his requests for dates. I know you have said well done for being strong yesterday. But actually I wasn't. He invited me in when I dropped him off and we ended up in bed. I know I know..... Iam so cross with myself. By doing that it has sent mixed messages. I know!!!!!!! and . He was doing the ' just go then and I will be ok ' routine. I am putting it down to emotions running a mock.

So not so strong!!! Sorryyyyyyyy for not telling everything yesterday.

For gods sake I'm acting like a teenager.

fff dont attend any counselling appts with him, i fell in this trap.
thats effectively him trying to get you in a bond with him.
he'll give a muvva of a sob story to the counsellor about how bad he feels/how depressed hes got/ 'traumatic' past experiences, youll feel sorry for him and think 'so thats why hes so bad' and take him back on the offchance he might change his ways with further counselling. he wont.

my ex tried this, but i stuck to my guns. as i suspected, he stopped the 'self-help mission' and hasnt bothered since. instead hes just spread hate about how i treated him like shit its a surprisingly common ploy by many abusive man. its just to keep grip on you. youve done amazingly so far.

sorry i havent been on much, been reading lundy and come across the sexual abuse bit... it was abit hard to read... fw ex used to grab me in my private places as if they were his rightful property, randomly, which made me get the creeps, so to go through that in my mind was a bitter pill to swallow.... made me feel like scrubbing myself repeatedly in the bath so i took a few days breather and focused on my exams.

hope everyones doing well xx

Can I join you lovely ladies?

I'm having a really really tough time dealing with narc ex (got a thread about him about his refusal to communicate with re co-parenting)

I know I'm going through post separation abuse now after reading up on his behaviours.

Had the hoovering when I decided to leave,stalking,getting 'friends' and family on his side,pleading and begging and saying he would change and when that didn't work or I didn't go back to him,he refused to engage with me (ignoring me in the street,not picking up calls about our son,blanking me,alienated my son from me so i didnt see him for weeks,Disney dad syndrome,bad mouthing me,refusing mediation)I could go on and on.

I sought out legal help and now we do 50:50 shared care and he cannot control or change the goal posts although he still manages to manipulate where he can.

Worn down with it all and feeling very very low.had a year of therapy to help me through this but it feels like its never going to end.

He won't change and there isn't much I can do other than keep strong and be the bigger,better,mentally strongsane parent to my son.

Good to get this out (although I'm scared he could be stalking me on here....old timer but name changed)

paft I am sorry that despite all your efforts he is continuing to cause you so much upset. I will try and find your other post, I am still quite new and not sure how to use the site properly.
Do you still have to have a lot of contact with him? is there anything you can do to reduce that? Welcome to this thread there is a lot of great advice and support from the girls.

Only contact is handovers and if I need to call if its important -illness etc.
We tend to just text (if he bothers to respond),its his awful controlling attitude that gets to me

Thanks for the welcome

I hope to gain some strength from reading all your posts

I am not in a great place paft quick back story: my ex left me when pregnant was abusive and no loss but then it escalated when my DS was born I got a sol. he disappeared. He is back and I am going through a court case, as he wants contact with my now 8 year old DS. I know my situation would be the same as yours if I had to have any contact with him. I worry about the future for DS more.
honey sorry you have been feeling pain going back through things, it really, really hurts doesn't it. Hope the exams are going ok.

Evening all!

Am shattered this evening... too much dancing in the kitchen with dd2 being the main cause though, so am quite happy with that.

Told a couple of ppl at church today that FW and I are separating. One really supportive (knew she would be; she's great); the other actually already knew and she started the conversation. Assumed she would 'get' it as she left an EA relationship herself, but instead she told me to "think of the children, because they will be affected" and told that she'd managed 38 years before leaving her marriage!!! Thought of the right replies to give later... but decided I'm not going to give her any more of my time on the subject!

Evening charlotte the dancing sounds fun. Sorry to hear you has a mixed reaction at church but glad the first person you spoke to was great. Think I am having an early night with my book got a few tough weeks ahead.