Support for those in Emotionally Abusive relationships: 23

[CharlotteCollinsismovingon]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you?re dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans - He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples' therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change:
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials This is a site containing material for men who want to change - please don?t give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

Hello again,
Just wanted to speak to sane people. It's happening again. The word salads, slamming, stomping and guess what? I start my job on Monday. My first work after serious depression / ptsd and two years off. That's how much he gives a shit. Apparently I am in a bad mood. Could've fooled me. Im really scared he's going to try and fuck this up for me.

Thank you for the welcome

I will try to get stuck in but I am still working on my courage, hopefully I'll get there.

Onwards and upwards hey.

ChaosCatt I wonder if he feels threatened by you working again - not liking the independence it may bring? Is there somewhere you can go to be away from him for even a bit if you need to? Are you safe there?

Miss It can take time to work up the courage, especially if you mean to leave. Little steps, always inching a bit forward. But always be prepared to leave quickly if it's needed.

bounty I am glad you have emailed your counsellor, I was advised before I started that I may feel worse before I felt better and that I mustn't dwell too much on what is said at first until I could think straight. I would stick with it a few more times. Glad you can chat to her Monday and hope you feel better after the email, it sounds like you do, I hate that not knowing what to do...it is totally understandable. FW has put so much pressure on you, take the pressure off yourself that you can. Nothing needs to be decided today and no decision means forever you get to decide.
chaos I don't know your story but you sound like you are moving forward and he is trying to pull you back. I have just been doing the freedom programme on line and the thing that struck me was when they describe the nice person, the friend and I had forgotten just what nice people would do... you should be being given encouragement and support with what you are doing, you deserve it.

chaos my H is a great one for slamming and stomping. I always know when I have 'done something wrong' because his knees lose the ability to bend.

It happens more and more these days

bounty - Also I suppose really there are only 3 decisions - stay the same, stay but insist on change or go.
You already have insisted on change. And he couldn't manage it for more than a week or so before backsliding. So that only leaves staying the same or going. Your thoughts on not drinking so you can go immediately are good. Thinking of you this weekend. Really glad you emailed your counsellor though, that was brave, and a good outcome to speak to her again on Monday.

better my cling-on is in bed now, thankfully, and dosed up on hayfever medicine so I'm hoping for a full night's sleep!!!!

baby that sounds hard. But really, would he have been any help if he had been here? He'd have made things worse, you'd have to be just as strong but in a different way.

ChaosCatt - he is trying to ruin it for you. I predict that this will be a very difficult weekend for you. I think Alice is right, maybe you could have a plan to go somewhere?

MissAlice: I always know when I have 'done something wrong' because his knees lose the ability to bend. YYY!!!

Chaos - well done for getting back to work after your illness. This is fantastic news. Such a big step and very brave. You must be really nervous. You really do need to have a calm and peaceful weekend without any stresses.

Bounty- well done on your email. I agree that must have taken some courage.

After an anxious start to the day it has got easier. Except the phone hasn't stopped. How news travels. I don't want to go over the story as to why he has left... Is it for good.... What's happened.... Please just go away.....

H has asked if I would go out tomorrow evening to talk. On neutral ground. Mmmmmm what to do????

chaos Congratulations on the job. That is really important - doing something for you. Is there any way he actually interfere and mess it up for you or do you think he will just be sulky and more awkward at home as he is not happy. I agree with others that this attitude suggets that he is insecure that you will have your own income etc. Also work is the one place where I have always felt respected and that does do something for your confidence.

FFF I would advise saying no to talking just yet, so early on, before you have really had chance to find yourself. Even as I type that I know that I would be incredibly tempted to go, but I suspect you'll regret it afterwards, Because what could be achieved? I suppose you could just agree how to move forward separately but stll supporting DS. But I expect the real agenda will be your H trying to win you back.

pony yes you are right - although he hasn't slid right back into the worst of the name slinging and still seems to be trying to be pleasant (too little too late I know ...... and still no apology, I think he really does not think that calling me fat and ugly for so long could have actually hurt me at all. I'm tempted to tell him just how much it has hurt and that it nearly broke me, but that it hasn't, but don't suppose it will achieve much more than crocodile tears)

better thanks for sharing that you thought that it was worse rather than helpful originally. I'm trying not to think about the session now. I suspect I have picked on a few things and made them bigger than they were. I do think the counsellor was shocked by how much I have put up with (she didn't say this but did seem to take a deep intake of breath)

missalice onwards and upwards is a good start :)

i am just home from beer festival. last bus and i turn into a pumpkin or something like that. lovely night out. much beer.

missalice welcome. hi to everyone else

fi mine brings them back when it suits him and new girlfriend.

the more I read the more glad I am he refused to go to counselling when I asked him ( tge penultimate time) he dugfested it last time but as do often too little too late.

FFF It might be a good idea to give yourself some time before speaking to him. I suspect he doesn't want the dust to settle and to allow you time to clear your head. A good wait before talking about things gives you a chance for spaghetti head to clear as well as making it very clear to him that you do not need him. Shifts the balance of power slightly IYSWIM.

what i don't even know what that last sentence is meant to say. too much beer. can't even blame Bernard as I switched himoff.
am eating tunnocks tea cakes under my duvet.

dugfested? sounds very New Model Army.
think it is meant to say suggested.
night all before I get worse.

FFF, regarding news travelling, there will be a difference between those who are phoning because they are concerned, want to make sure you are okay, support you, and those who want the gossip. I shall not forget when a friend who was always too busy to text, phone, see me turned up in my office within 24 hours of finding out, literally falling off the edge of her seat with curiosity wanting to know what was going on. Draw on the supportive friends, give the gossips a wide berth. The supportive friends will understand you don't want to go into details, if you don't, and be there for you.
As for talkingto your h, the main question is do you want to? It seems very, very soon.

pink, the lovely lady here to help your friend, I hope i have the right name, your list sent a chill down my spine. I think I agree with pony, i think, who suggested labeklling individual types of behaviour, but also asking her what she thinks, so, that seems quite controlling to me, what do you think? Some of the things people said afterwards to me, you did not seem happy, you always seemed stressed, you always seemed to be going really far to accomodate him, that was controlling behaviour, but not one soul said a single word when we were together. My best friend of 20 years, bless her, even said after we split that she had wondered if I was happy to be getting married. Say something, as gentle as you like, so that she has the opportunity if she wishes to give voice to her own doubts.

Otherwise, hello to new posters, and strength to all. I am sorry not to post to everyone, extremely tired. Have been pondering the question of being stronger. Had a reasonable text exchange with FW this evening, the first since we split, and I caught the thought, maybe if I had tried harder, it would have been okay. WTF. I was on the floor, I was ill with stress, and still the demands and strops kept coming. So why does that thought even get headspace?

Wishing you all a restful night.

That took me so long to write I missed beery Bernard. Loving dugfested, sounds just like a FW type of suggestion to me, digging heels in and festering.

Hello everyone, thanks for your sanity and support. He wouldn't be so obvious as to directly interfere - would deny until blue, but he will make this weekend a difficult one. There's always a reason to have a go. I don't think I'm unsafe, but thank you for thinking about me. Just longing for when he clears off tomorrow for golf, I just hate the way that the man I love(d) can't help but spoil any "joy" I get. He can only spoil this job for me if I let him - but it's so hard x

It is definitely too soon but I don't know how to say no.

The thing is I DO want to be with him. BUT not as he is. I want a happy, content, peaceful, non abusive version of him.

So I agree what can we talk about. It will be like a date.

We don't have to discuss children as they are 23 and 18.

All of his family assume that he has cheated. How sad is that.

I don't know what to do for the best really.

Sorry me me me ! I'm embarrassed about the whole situation,

FFF I want a happy, content, peaceful, non abusive version of him I want this too. But ... I'm not sure that it exists really outside of my head. And even if it does exist I'm not sure I would allow myself to totally and utterly commit and submerge myself in that ... just in case it is an illusion and I am hurt again. And then you can't have a fantastic marriage if you're always holding something back.

I think only you could decide whether to go or not. I don't think it would be wrong to say "it's still too painful and raw to meet just now" or something along those lines. It doesn't totally close of communication but means you are doing it on his terms. If he is willing to change then he needs to give you space to sort your head and feelings out. It might be that with time you realise that actually you are happier on your own and that you don't want to be with him, but you can't make that decision yet.

I personally would be a little nervous about a 'date' scenario and a safe topic list. I suspect that this could be a lovely fun evening that would serve little purpose other than him showing you just what you are leaving behind. It is very easy to be funny and charming for one night, especially when you are only talking about safe things, small talk etc. And presumably he was funny, charming, pleasant to be with at the start otherwise you would have never married him.

Again typing this out I'm thinking that I really need to take my own advice. So much easier to say than do. We'll be here whatever your decide x

oops it's late:

close off communication ...... doing it on your terms

Thank you bounty it makes complete sense xx

Sorry I've been absent - I've been reading but it's moving so fast and life has been at 100 mph recently that I keep hesitating to jump in...

FW is being very pleasant, except tonight when mask slipped. I have had some surprising and hurtful toxicity from dsis.

Having told fw I am divorcing (big step) I am now gulping down deep breaths to take the final stage of presenting him with papers. Please could I request a kindly kick up the arse - I've moved on so much but every step still sometimes feels like the first....

and to all.

FFF This: It is definitely too soon but I don't know how to say no.

Stand in front of a mirror. Few deep breaths. Sooth all the frown lines out or worry from your face. Here we go. Say it. "No."

That's it. That is ALL you need to say. No explanations, no justifications, nothing extra that he will only try to punch holes in or wrangle past. Just "No."

Warning - the first time, there's this panic of "oh my god, I need to explain." But tamp it down and remind yourself that actually, no you do NOT need to explain. At all. Then there's this giddy feeling of "oooooh I did it!" followed by a bit of an eyebrow raise moment of "well, the earth didn't come crashing in...." Don't be drawn into discussing it, if he continues to ask, just say "no" one more time and walk away (or hang up or ignore further texts).

I want a happy, content, peaceful, non abusive version of him

The only way we get this is to give in completely - give them everything they want - and sadly, we also know that even THAT doesn't work. They will still find something to be angry about.

He will spend the entire time pushing boundaries (if you say certain things are off limits), insisting you need to come back (or demanding), using every bit of emotional blackmail in the book. He's looking to put the meeting like a date "to talk in neutral place" is most likely dinner out together - to put a romantic "oh see how nice it could be again" spin on it.

Fly oh goodness, that must be quite stressful. I am nowhere near that stage yet. I'm not even sure what the legal requirements are for filing as I haven't researched any of it yet. Hang in there! Another step towards freedom, really.

Alice, love your description of saying no, just no, for the first time. So true.

breathe, think about where you want to be in a year's time. This is a step to getting there. Handholding.

breathe you have come this far. finish line is in sight...and on the other side life begins anew on your own terms. like sweetpea says look to the future.

alice wow. I really must practise that for life in general. I cannot even imagine saying that to anyone grown up. going to get mirror out now.

fff i agree with the others. he is rushing you. take some time read the Lundy bit on space and on change.

anyway. now regretting beer fest and must go chase butterflies.