Support for those in Emotionally Abusive relationships: 23

[CharlotteCollinsismovingon]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you?re dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans - He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples' therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change:
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials This is a site containing material for men who want to change - please don?t give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

Hi ladies

Sorry not been here for a few days. I have had a read through your posts though to keep me up to date, wow this thread moves so fast. So many of us in similar situations

I had vertigo for a few days which was awful. Tablets working now so other than the pressure in my ears am feeling much better.

It's nearly 4 weeks since h left. We had second counselling session this week. Before we went I told him that I didn't see any point in going if he wasn't going to be 100% honest which meant he needed to admit to EA and FA and his general moody negative behaviour. To my surprise he told the counsellor!
I know that he feels that he has made a connection with the counsellor and he thinks she is on 'his side'. Iykwim
He has surprised me but I can't help but wonder if its all for real.

I have surprised myself at how strong and detached I am. The house is calm, quiet, peaceful which is nice. I have told him this.
When I see him I can't help but feel that physical attraction. And if course he isn't being moody or controlling ATM because I only see him for short periods of time.
I am sure he thought I would be a blubbering wreck. I usually am. But amazed myself at how strong I have been. I think you get to a point where you will not accept shit behaviour any more. I am at that point.

Haha it's only taken 22 years!!

Hello, I'm just dipping in for a bit of a vent...

I've struggled a bit today. I miss being in love, I miss sex with FW. I haven't cried for weeks until today, I don't know why it's hit me like it has. I'm having so much fun and I'm generally happier. But something doesn't feel right.

I went to the gym today. The last time I went was two months ago. It was on my walk home from the gym that I caught FW having a drink with OW. I feel like going to the gym that day saved me (from what, I don't know) but at the same time, im sad. I'm excited about so much, all my future and my freedom. But I'm scared too, scared of never loving or being loved (I know FW didn't love me) and scared of never having a connection with someone, sex and everything.

Sorry to be me, me, me. I was anticipating a bit of a comedown after the last few weeks...and here it is

Hi Colin

Sorry you have had a bad day.

I can understand that feeling of wondering whether you will feel loved again. And of course the answer is yes. Definitely yes yes yes.

Hope that you manage to sleep. Hugs to you

And well done for getting to the gymxx

neither the rs you ate describing sounds very like my perception of my rs with my x. but eventually i realised i was angry and i was arguing bit i was NOT verbally abusing him. i labelled his behaviour. i fought back. i stood my ground. but i did not actually call him the vile and abusive things he called me. and it was only him confusing me that had me convinced we were both to blame.
i decided to end it anyway because either way. he was abusing me or we were both abusive/angry/unable to communicate and it was visibly damaging our children.

your experience / dynamic may be different although it may be worth considering whether you need to be together while you sort out your issues.
also when he apologises does he do it on terms of i am sorry i did this it was wrong or does he say i am sorry i did this but i only did it because you did x? i.e. does his apology include dumping any blame on you or asking you to be nicer etc.
because there are apologies and then there are apologies hovering

sadly any doubts i had about me and my x just being maladaptive behaviour patterns have totally evaporated in the face of some of the things he has done/ texts and emails he has sent since we split.
he uses the guise of his feelings i.e. how hurt he is as an excuse to call me all sorts of things and to treat our children in an emotionally cruel manner.

i am not saying there is no possibility that you are emotionally abusive. but abuse is very confusing. it can make you think you are things you are not and couples counselling likes to habeas with parties take blame...when he sometimes that is nite appropriate.

another thing to consider is who is frightened/intimidated. what the power balance is. and who is trying to exert control.

my x was too big to be scared of me.
he held more of the cards than i did so the power dynamic was such that although he would claim i was controlling (actually canned into policing him) he was the one who had choices and i had very few other than the ultimate choice to leave when i realised he would not change.

this may nite be relevant to your situation but i am.putting it out there because girls a long time i thought it was me or at least half me.
i did do things wrong i am very human and fallible but now see i am not abusive.

sorry for the typos too numerous to correct.
hovering....hoovering.

FW once claimed to be terrified of me.

Yet another reason for me to leave: for the sake of the poor downtrodden man! :o

Nini, you lurking? Not heard from you for a while, hope you're ok.

Thanks for the replies. Yes it is hard to know where abuse starts and ends and where it is just bad practice. Take for instance the other night.

We went to the local park for a walk to see a specific area. Its a big park and I knew the general direction we were heading. I am a walker and dh is more of an observer and likes to hang back and look at trees or water or fish. Dd was on her blades and we were going through a forest part and I was holding her hand. Dh and ds were behind us. At one stage I looked behind and couldnt see them. In my head I was saying, why does he always do this when we are out? We walked on until we reached a cross roads and I waited for a few minutes and no sign of them. As we were going straight on I said to dd that we would check to make sure we were going the right way and then head back towards them. We found where we were looking for and then doubled back to meet dh and ds. We couldnt find them. I text and they were miles away had gone a completely different direction. We ended up going back to the car and met them there. I was annoyed. Dh said there was no point in being annoyed that I had walked on ahead. I said I didnt walk on ahead but that he got distracted by something and was always doing it. I said it was ridiculous that we couldnt go out as a family for a walk without him doing his own thing and ended up having a row. I was quite annoyed and he ended up getting annoyed too.

I was driving home and I was about 5-6 on the anger scale. I told him I was annoyed that we couldnt do something simple together with the kids. He told me not to speak to him and I said that I could speak all I wanted and that if he could choose not to speak to me rather than making it out that it was all my fault. (childish I know)

We were due to go to couselling that evening and we made up and went. In the session I ended the relationship again as I was annoyed that he would not take any responsibility for his part in the argument or the way our walk turned out.

Later that evening I apologised for bringing the relationship to that point. He was closed off at this stage and tired and I wanted to talk. While I was talking it became apparant that I get quite anxious when we are out together and get separated. He is able to just go about what he is doing and meet up later whereas I get panicky and cant relax until I know where he is and what the plan for meeting up is. We were able to identify a number of other occassions where this had happened and where I expressed my anxiety but getting annoyed with him

We went to bed with things unresolved.

The following morning I got a text from him saying:
I now understand what you were talking about when you mentioned that you have anxiety when we may be apart when out etc.. and did so understand last night but too tired and confused to do anything with the information - if you want me to be your husband I will and I will be more available once I understand why and what you are reacting to if you want me to leave I will - does seem so trivial a matter to sort - if we get separated in the woods I will see you shortly or rescue you!

Sorry for the long post but I was just trying to relay an argument and show the dynamic that is present when we argue and where it goes to.

Phew... I don't know that I have much wisdom on that, neither. It sounds like my H with the going off a different way - in his case, that'd be passive-aggressiveness because he wasn't in charge.

One thing I noticed was that twice you talked when he didn't want to. Do you know whether he would usually be willing to talk later, or whether he uses this as a tactic to shut down arguments?

The end of his text also sounds like my H - attempting to sound understanding but I would end up feeling inadequate for the anxiety.

Has he apologised for making you anxious on the walk or said what he will do differently next time?

It's interesting that you keep ending the relationship and then retracting it, because that's what my H seems to think I should do, to tell him how serious things have got. He's annoyed because when I said it was over, it was and is and he thinks I should've given him more warning!

Thanks for replying to me I know my post was very detailed and quite niggly (if thats even a word).

He doesnt like to talk he uses every tactic in the book to avoid it. I often end up feeling exhausted after I try to talk. Afterwards he is glad we have talked but he always goes into defense mode if I approach him to talk. I feel that I want to get to the nub of the matter. I feel he does everything to avoid it but dont understand why someone would do that. It doesnt make alot of sense to me. It is something we have discussed during counselling. The advice given to me was that If I have a problem or am feeling hurt over something he said or did then I need to say it, to respect my own feelings and to let him know that I am upset.

I think I need to take responsibility for my anxiety. Its not his fault I feel anxious. He didnt know up until now that that is how I feel. I dont think I really acknowledged it myself. I think I just got annoyed with himn for wandering off rather than realising that it was because I get anxious.

We agreed to do the same walk the following evening and it all went well and we went out again the following day and stuck together.

It is interesting what you say about his going a different way because he wasnt in charge. There may be a bit of that but he is quite a wanderer. He is easily distracted and likes nature whereas I like a good walk. We were going to see the tooth fairy tree in the forest and he didnt know where it was. He stopped to let ds have a wee and on our subsequent walk admitted that he had climbed a tree with ds also and stopped to look at the trees that had fallen down and also at the pond. When they got to the crossroads they called for us and then they just went a different way. He was fine about it and said he enjoyed being with ds.

See I knew he would fall behind its what he does and I made a decision to go on ahead. But maybe I should have went back or waited as I am the one that gets anxious so maybe I was the one being controlling??

See I think I have problems with boundaries in that I never know which is right.

I decided myself that I should have had more compassion and empathy and patience for him as I know he likes to ramble and observe instead of getting impatient and going on ahead. And maybe he should have text me to see where I had gone but he didnt realise I was anxious so maybe next time he will.

ifyou're walking ahead at regular pace and he's stopped or wandered off, how can you know! Only he can let you know that, and you're the one in front that he can see. You were stopping to check where he was then he'd gone. As a one-off doesn't seem an issue.

Charlotte spot on with passive-aggressive. Typical of that type of interactive behaviour to not speak and then be angry about result or take steps to ensure the outcome affected you adversely, whilst feeling smug themselves. Were you far enough away that he really called you and you wouldn't hear?

I think agreeing a shared experience another time seems the way forward? I can't see the point in all getting lost in the woods. Its like you weren't there? Or he takes the boys, if you aren't so keen on the woods rambling, and you all do a something else together instead?

Sounds like you are making progress on awareness tho, in the counselling. that he's trying to shut you down each time you have any concerns and is blocking your attempts to communicate your feelings to him, but then not sharing his either?!

Its not possible to run a relationship from one side, and he sit back and accuse you of bein controlling?

FFF you sound in a good place - the vertigo you have had almost sounds like it is your body imitating your life. The room has stopped spinning you can see it clearer. Keep going, you don't have to decide how you are going to spend the rest of your life today - the counselling seems to be helping. His admission is really good but just a first step as you know.
Colin you are still grieving for what you thought you had. Even in a good relationship we have a bad day - it's great just to let is all out sometimes - good for you.
neither it is very difficult to know what to do when you just don't feel like things are right. I waited too long to really even think about it, I just tried to muddle through. It is when it becomes more of a pattern you see it. You can't stop what he chooses to do, just think about how you respond. When they first do it I think it is natural to get angry. The anger inside you tells you something is wrong, it your warning signal. I didn't realise that and I would jump in with a response. The more I didn't the bigger shock tactics he would use to get my attention and then it was obvious and I could decide what I wanted to do long term.
I was in court yesterday - went ok but the FWitery was off the scale - I will post a bit more shortly need to get DS to bed, I would be really interested to know what you insightful ladies would have made of it. I was actually very concerned for his mental state and very glad I don't have it day to day. Only back in court just before Christmas - so it isn't over but I can have a breather.

Well, the FW well and truly surfaced tonight. Charming. He left in a strop, so I'll have to email him before next visit.

Going to incognito bingo to rant. lol

you know what? no, not going to incognito bingo. Will just do a itty bitty rant here.

I offered him something from the house, which I can use, but I thought he might use more frequently (trying to be nice). He said no, he wouldn't use it. Okay, so I keep it and figure, that's fine, I'll use said item, no worries.

Then he rings me the other day saying he wants said item after all. Not for him, but to give to a relative of his. I say we'll have to talk about it. So we talk about it today and I say actually, I'd rather keep it, since you've told me you're not going to use it. And he stewed over this throughout the visit, then because he was angry, he just ignored whatever I said towards the end of the visit, and I asked him what the problem was and he said it was because of this item.

His comment? "I let you keep this and that... (and on and on)... but then you won't give me this item!" Reiterate to him - it's something I can use, but I offered it to him thinking he might use it more, he said NO. So I'm keeping it to use. And now he's mad because he's changed his mind and wants to give it to someone else?!?! How does that even make sense?

He was also, I think, annoyed because I told him there was no point in him coming over to visit if he was going to spend the day being unpleasant.

and breathe........... I did offer to discuss it further, without sniping or arguing, as I'm baffled about the whole situation, but he got nasty and left.

we won't even discuss the fact that he pissed and moaned because I asked him to help out with school run 2 days a week (he doesn't want "to be tied down").

Alice how nice to be unencumbered. i suppose he thinks you tap dance every morning when you do the school run. i wish FW had them overnight just do occasionally he could do the morning thing.

mink I could tap dance, actually. I do know how. But no, generally I don't.

Alice after we had split and I was pregnant your incident is exactly what used to send me into rage...you trying to be nice and him somehow making you the evil one out of the smallest incidental. How they have the time to think up these things is beyond me. I just limited the conversation more and more and now I am unable to speak one word to him (as a million would never be enough to explain anything ever).

I experienced his first big attempt to get to me (since years ago) whilst we were in ear shot of each other yesterday. He has been waiting a long time for this opportunity and he took it. Whilst the judge was deliberating we had to stay put. For and I kid you not, 20 mins he ranted, barley taking a breath to his lawyer, about me. I didn't hear much AS for the first time I chose to zone out and just not listen and I didn't even feel an increase in my breath and to feel it not having an effect on me was liberating. I just felt pity for a man who is so wound up and desperate. I do not and will not ever speak to this FW again. Later he tried to intimidate my friends by posturing at them down a corridor. They were shocked but as with the mania he displayed earlier to me, it is concerning but as Lundy says to him this is war....he was still going on and on as he left court to his friend. His friend in the end walked away from him.

Alice you know how a FW loves to get their own way. And don't you know, they can change their mind whever it pleases them. Regardless of what we think

I fancy a bit of bingo tonight

Very well put bounty You have reminded me I must follow their rules until such time they decide to change the rules, they may or may not have informed me of the rule change, I may have to work out the rules have changed myself and if I have not managed to work all that out - then it is of course .......my fault .

I guess I'm still trying to figure out why he thinks I should give him an item I can use (not a cheap item btw) so he can give it to a relative of his.

better I hope you are feeling better for getting through the court. Well done. needed. I think zoning out for the 20 minute rant was a big step. After all whatever he says or thinks means nothing to you now. It does sound like he is mentally unstable. I'm glad I'm not his friends bet your FW loved his friend walking off At least you have 6 months or so to regroup now.

alice any one normal cannot see why you would want to give something away to a relative that you can still use yourself. A FW is a different breed. Same thing in a different situation. I had suggested we go somewhere as a family one day last year. FW was moaning about it. He didn't want to go. My parents invited us to theirs that day for something else. I thought well we might as well go as FW doesn't want to do the family thing anyway. As soon as he hears the change of plans then suddenly there is Nothing On This Earth that he would rather do than go to the family day out that he'd been moaning about.

Now you want the item there is nothing on this earth that he wants more than to give the said item as a generous gift to a relative. It doesn't matter that last visit he doesn't want it. He has Changed His Mind and you are expected to jump.

Wouldn't "What a FW says and what they really mean" be a great book. Almost a translation guide for FW speak?

better that's brilliant news, that you were able to zone him out and not pay attention to his drivel - I know you were worried about being there and seeing him, but you have shown yourself to be someone who is far more resilient and resourceful that he could imagine. You're an amazing lady! Bet that pissed him off no end! Glad you have a bit of a breather till Christmas now (I take it from that amount of time that he didn't get what he wanted then?).

Alice - that's just pure FWittery. It's his rules, and should you not agree with them, you are automatically in the wrong. He thinks you should give it to him simply because he now wants it. What a shame he doesn't want to be 'tied down' to two mornings a week for half an hour a time. Tough!!!!

He has Changed His Mind and you are expected to jump.
Brilliant! Exactly.

bounty your story about the day out reminded me of a similar situation with my FW. It was DS1's birthday on the Saturday, he didn't want to do anything 'birthdayish' with DS1 as a family because his daughters were going home on the Saturday morning for a party. He decreed that we'd do birthday celebrations on the Friday night while they were there, but he had no interest in doing anything with DS1 on the Saturday, no matter what I suggested. So when my mum said we (me and the boys) could go over and spend the day with her and my niece, we'd have a mini-party, I thought 'great'. FW didn't say anything much when I told him.
But the night before DS1's birthday, after we'd done the stuff with his daughters there, he started getting very agitated about me going. Said he didn't want me 'taking DS2 away from him all afternoon' (I was breastfeeding). Anyway, that was the night he first properly assaulted me, ended up yanking me about the bed, spluttering bile and fury right into my face, poking me hard (to emphasise his point, a la Nigella ), slapping my leg. I was shaking with fear, I think my body went into shock. It was awful. But there was no logic. He had changed his mind - or objected to me doing something that didn't involve him - and me not jumping to do what he wanted made him furious, it was like a challenge to his authority I think.
During the assault, I of course promised I would only go for an hour (he told me 'or else'). I went and stayed all afternoon. I told him I was on the verge of leaving. He was completely repentant and that was supposed to be the start of him 'sorting himself out'.