Support for those in Emotionally Abusive relationships: 23

[CharlotteCollinsismovingon]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you?re dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans - He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples' therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change:
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials This is a site containing material for men who want to change - please don?t give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

Well done Fi and thank you for giving me the details , I hope you didn't mind me asking. Your judge sounds like the one I need great. You are being more reasonable that I think I would if I am being honest. I would have taken no contact and run out of the court.
yes fox you deserve to celebrate.
Lots of strong ladies around tonight.
I was thinking the same as pony bounty how are you? I am still so thankful for your advice the other night, it has helped me stay calmer this weekend thinking of him being scared

loving the wild and independent fabulousfoxgloves lets see a twirl

thinking of you too bounty sending hugs.

It is truly crazy isn't it when you can be in a place of feeling the centre of everything wrong, and yet always being called 'so reasonable'

No, not atall Better - the ushers were very kind and said they were going to ask this particular one for me. I also asked to go into a room away from everyone, as I did find it very emotional writing it all out in a statement for evidence.

the contact order would involve a CAFCASS (7 report?) something like that. Wasn't ready to face any more right then, and can't see any reason for FW to flout injunction - they are 97% effective way of saying NO!

Yes, the problem with foxgloves, however, is that they are also poisonous. I have just realised they may be the FWs of the flower world. Though digitalis also has theraputic qualities, whereas FWs have none.

And no-one could accuse a foxglove of being charming. Far too brazen for that.

X-posts, sorry. It is defiance at the moment, I think, rather than anything else.
I have cause to wonder what on earth women did before Mumsnet. I am enormously grateful for this thread, for supportive fellow travellers, and for other place.

other places, I mean.

Hi all. Thanks for the messages. I'm ok. Feel like I'm treading water a bit but I suppose my head's above water so that's something.

I'm really mad with myself for engaging with him and replying to his emails the other week. I feel suckered back in. Fw is generally being nice. If he was genuinely like this then life would be ok. Good even. But I'm struggling cos it feels so fake.

He's come up with thus action plan to improve things which include some changes at home plus counselling. He has conveniently forgotten that 12 mo ago I suggested it (before I knew it was a bad idea) and he point blank refused.

So now he has switched from wanting to do nothing as a family and telling me I'm fat and ugly to now coming along to every event, trying to hold my hand, hug and kiss me and then saying at the end of each day what a lovely time he's had.

I feel so sad that it's taken me wanting to leave to get him to put any effort in. But it feels like an act and I'm actually angry that he can switch do easily. I mean why not always be like this as I'm sure life must feel nicer for him. For me I think it's too late. Plus I don't think he's really changed.

We had one discussion about a childcare issue today and now I think about it we seem to have decided what he wanted.

And he now seems to think that now he's being nice that all is fine. He's not even mentioned counselling again.

It's a risky strategy but I'm actually sorting a session with the person he wanted to see. I really think that they will be shocked by his behaviour. And even if they're not then I think if I came back here for a debrief you lot would help me clear the fog of fwittery!

I know in the past when we've reached this sort of truce I've drifted away from here and then let things slide until something big happens and I realise I've wasted another 6 months. So that's why I came on tonight. Just to keep my head clear and to keep in touch.

bounty stay strong. and remember if you do got to counselling do not get sucked into talking about now he feels. it us what he things that is wrong. i know quoting Lundy again but it all makes sense.

I'm actually angry that he can switch do easily. exactly: he could have been like this. he chose not to and he will no doubt choose not to again. I have just posted an essay on how to determine whether someone has really changed on this thread. Trust your gut instincts...and there is no harm in exploring so long a you can stay detached and observe the behaviour and protect yourself.

Don't be cross with yourself...we have all invested such a lot in these men it is hard to believe that they really are this bad...that's why we give them so many chances.

Thanks fool. Just skimmed through but can say no to a couple of things. One being that he justifies his abuse as I've hurt him too. And there was another that I immediately thought no to but am too tired now to remember. Off to bed but will read properly tomorrow.

Yy he loves telling me how he feels not thinks. Will watch for that. Thanks

keep strong Bounty I think you're right, its sounding like he's being fake, and as you say, that you don't think he's really changed.

hoovering. ... hooovering... hoovering.. I hear the hum of the hoover.

Glad to hear you do feel more in control, despite his physical and emotional lurches at you (the kissing and handholding.... are these wanted physical approaches? or are you feeling you must tolerate this for some reason - not to answer here, just a thought for you, thats ok if you are actually appreciating them, cos it feels quite icky for me to consider those things when in ours - it was also the only time he would do those things too, and it made me feel I didn't have a choice about him invading me that way just because he thought that would do the trick - umm... projection warning there!).

Hope you slept well.

yes fabulousF digitalis is a killer, but its not used that way. You have a lovely association with it of wild and independent. Its powerful and strong, and to be treated with care. It won't be walked underfoot, and it stands tall and proud, and very beautiful.

xxx

fi. I am in need of kind words and reminding where I want to be. You are absolutely spot on. Thank you.

digitalis is also a life saver....for a heart condition....poison for some, life for another...it all depends what you need!

It IS demoralising to see how quickly they can change when they sense it will benefit them. When I was getting the "nice act" I just reminded myself of all the times that he was raging at me, then literally like flipping a switch he was all smiles and nice to someone else that either rang or showed up at the house.

I've spent some time this morning doing some work on the garden. Therapeutic. Although I've gone the other direction than some - rather than letting things grow, I'm ripping out most of it and clearing it back. I'm hoping to change the landscape to something I like.

I'm also doing little DIY jobs in the house and getting ready to do a fair bit of decorating inside. Making it mine IYSWIM. It makes me feel more positive.

I will admit that sometimes things are a struggle, and it's times like those that I really am angry at EH for putting me in this position, instead of being the man he could be so that we could be a family. But realistically speaking, I can't change it, so I just plan on making the best of it. I'd say at least I have sole ownership of the telly remote, but with children in the house, we all know that's not true either.

I can't believe Alice that switch in them, I know. I look back sometimes and recall scenes that left me sobbing in the bedroom, with new baby whilst I heard him downstairs full of chatter, charm and witty banter.

His mother does stay put tho and came up to see me and was horrified. A few years later I reminded her of the scene and told her what led up to it... she told me I should leave him. Could kick myself REALLLY hard for not doing that back then.

Changing landscapes couldn't be more appropriate very cathartic I imagine xxx

yy FabulousF in good measure digitalis saves lives... glad you feelin stronger and back on track. xxx

Hi everyone, I haven't been on the thread for a while, since I was doing really well at trying not to give dp any more headspace and recovering from depression. But the last few weeks I have gone backwards.

I recently went away for a week to recharge and have a break, but came back to a letter from ex's solicitor saying that he is going for residency of our dd who is 20 months. I know he has no chance, but it is still terrifying, and sent me into a total panic.

Ex had dd for 6 days while I was away, but when he came to drop her home he mumbled something about needing some stuff, and while I was distracted with dd, headed off upstairs. Obviously he needed nothing, just wanted a poke about, and got what he wanted since he saw new dp's slippers by my bed. He and dp then proceeded to have a row, when ex said 'so how is sleeping with my wife?'. Ex claims that all of the abuse and stuff is me making things up, that I tricked him into having a baby he never wanted (dd who he now wants to live with him?!), that I am an unfit mother due to all of this and having depression. He was so unbelievably nasty, dp was quite shaken up. They used to be friends.

Now ex is not speaking to me, not answering his phone, not replying to messages. I had a few questions about dd which he didn't reply to. I really don't think this is on. I really don't want dd to go to his this weekend, but I don't think I have any right to stop contact. I just feel very uncomfortable giving her to someone who is so nasty and who obviously has no interest in communicating or doing what is best for our daughter. She is always happy to go with him, although she comes home exhausted (he doesn't bother with naptimes) and sometimes hungry having not had an afternoon snack. None of the previous emotional abuse/physical incidents have been reported to anyone so I know he is likely to get contact. I just have no idea what is best. I know this is more gameplaying, but I can't just ignore it when it's involving dd.

Hi G so sorry...

wrt contact: Unless you have a contact order, as the resident parent you have the right to stop or vary contact for the sake of you daughter at any time. your primary duty of care is to her, her wellbeing and safety. The question is whether the row would actually affect the way he looks after his daughter.

when you have decided what should happen i would consider how you are communicating with your EX. you are in a new relationship, you should give your ex the MINIMUM attention you can and that would mean brief and factual discussion preferably by email or another indirect method. if he doesn;t answer then say you will take his silence as agreement with you.

residency: collect evidence of how he is with you. decide what your bottom line is and get some good legal advice.

best wishes

like you say, he has no chance at residency. Stick with the facts. You don't consent to anything you don't want to... thats it.

To have been so highly abusive and shaken two fully grown capable adults, one can only imagine the effects on your LO. To wilfully neglect her needs, basic fundamental needs for care and wellbeing, of food and rest. He shows no thought for her.

Now your DPs friend has shown his true colours huh? All to the good.

You can ignore what he says, as you know its all bollox, it usually is...

What he says means nothing to you, you know the truth, you know the caring and safe space your DD has in your home, and you know the feelings you have are direct result of his crushing abuses.

Put up your shields and respond by changing contact to ensure your DD is not subjected to this again. You will be acting in her best interests for her future wellbeing.

You can list [on your email to him detailing the changes in contact] your clear reasons. One of them being that he refuses to speak to you regarding the shared welfare of your daughter - tick
Last contact he was highly abusive to you both - tick (this is highly abusive to DD)... you have a long list to work on

depression often stems from the feeling stuck under it all. You have the support of your DP, and the kitchen utensil army of ladies on here... put your shields up and utensils at the ready!

xxxx

how quickly they can change when they sense it will benefit them.

YY exactly, Alice. And I agree, it's v v nice being able to chose what you can watch without FWs around! Sounds like you are doing some great physical and emotional clearing, good for the soul all round.

bounty, am glad you can see that he is perfectly capable of adjusting his behaviour, he has just chosen not to up till now. It used to make me very angry, seeing FW do the same, because it's upsetting to think that they do it through choice, but they do. They could not be like that. They don't want to, because it gets them what they need. Fi, I remember the same, sobbing in a heap upstairs and hearing him whistling downstairs and making jokes with his daughters. Made me feel that everyone got on so much better when I wasn't around, but no doubt that was part of the point.
Stay strong, lovely Bounty, you'll get there. You have already made such fantastic leaps.

Glabella I'm really sorry to hear what an absolute FW your ex is being. Re contact: my solicitor has always said that if I felt uncomfortable with contact, ie I had any suspicions that he may not return DS2 (since he did try to snatch him once) then not to send him. (Just read fool's message - what she said!) But if he's not letting her nap, that's not in DD's best interests at all. Have you spoken to a solicitor yourself about all this? What about your HV? Mine has been wonderfully helpful, and would be able to testify how affected I have been by FW's abuse in the relationship, and also how my being on anti-D medication in no way compromises me in my ability to be a good mum.
You also now have a witness to his abuse in DP. And from now on, all exchanges of DD should happen in the doorstep (or at the car) since he cannot be trusted to come back into the house.

Oh, yes, and definitely document everything that happens, every abusive phonecall, text, DD handover time. Everything.

just to add, you can just enforce these things yourself and do it by email, and then don't meet him anywhere he might feel he can repeat that behaviour. You would have had every right to call the police to get him out of your house. email should state clearly to stay out and away from your house in future to prevent a recurrence.

Pull away in direct response to each and every attack by him... putting protective measures in place for your DD. The law, will support you in this. If he's not happy and he won't be. He can take you to court. Speak to WA they will absolutely support you in maintaining your position on this, and could be with you in court. If he has access tho, and its done safely.. what will he be taking you to court for exactly?

Someone reminded me today of a quote I'd heard before and liked... I think I'm going to print it out nicely with artwork and put it in a frame in my room.

?Remember, no one can make you feel inferior without your consent.? ~Eleanor Roosevelt

Hi everyone. Sorry I'm still not up with everyone's backstory! I will get to know you all bit by bit.

Bounty.... Good strategy. Detachment is a process, remember, and you have got lots of practical things sorted that put you in a different bracket now.

Glabella... Sounds really stressful. I hope your new dp is supportive and sees fw for what he is.

I had an awful dream last night. It was about my first abusive boyfriend. Who I never think of. He was being sickeningly nice, but my daughters saw right through him. I had time in the dream to think no.... Why are they even meeting this monster?

I think I do need to get my head round what happened. I am disappointed that the dv course has not got back to me, after 2 weeks and 2 emails.

bounty, that is all so familiar. He seems to think that this good behaviour is all that counts - and his attitudes and beliefs can go unchallenged; the past need not even be mentioned.

Glabella, raising my potato masher and pestle (or is mortar? ) in the direction of your FW.

He seems to think that this good behaviour is all that counts - and his attitudes and beliefs can go unchallenged; the past need not even be mentioned.
That's a brilliant way to put it Charlotte.