Support for those in Emotionally Abusive relationships: 23

[CharlotteCollinsismovingon]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you?re dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans - He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples' therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change:
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials This is a site containing material for men who want to change - please don?t give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

winnie must be horrible to hear. He is a FW!! I love your story
mink I have had real problems with my sol in the past but it is starting to come together now and she was really good along side a barrister yesterday and I am regaining some strength for the hearing, on Monday I just didn't think I was going to be able to do it. I just hope the judge sees it as you do and as many friends and family have.
There are a few more things equally bizarre, a male friend who is also a phycologist trained kept saying that some of the things he has put are just `astonishing'.
It is very quiet on here today, hope everyone is ok and doing something nice. I don't think I will be awake too much longer.

Tether that's a great story!!!! And i say go for the River Song comparison, she rocks!

better You will be strong next week, I know it.

fff - detached is fine. Emotional and crumbling is fine. The early days/months are a rollercoaster. Truly, I'm not long out of that stage and I've been out over a year. Just be kind to yourself, don't beat yourself up. Everything you feel is valid.

better, the only thing I can think is that his solicitor is sympathetic to you, and wants the judge to see him for who he is. I cannot see that him admitting that he has your house monitored is going to help his case at all, it is harassment. Your sol has a generous offer on the table and his sol should then advise him to accept. End of. Fingers crossed for you.

Otherwise, yes, I think your sol is right, stand by your statement, he is trying to get a reaction, don't give him one.

Sorry, that took me ages to write as I got sidetracked googling the question of information sharing. It sounds like you have got good support better

What a great story, Winnie! Reminds me of CinderEdna, which I have only read once and never found again, where Edna is a much stronger woman than Ella next door. I won't give a spoiler as I don't remember more than that, but look out for it; I loved it!

FP was great again today. At the beginning of the course, I wasn't sure if I belonged there, but now it's my large dose of clarity to get me through the week. I fit right in! We're all more relaxed and make cynical jokes at times. I'm going to miss it when it's over!

Sorry, I'm a bit me, me, me . . .better the odd thing is I didn't even respond emotionally to anything he was saying. I was quite detached and thinking why am I not just packing a bag and going? I know I'm trying to leave in a way that has his agreement with the aim of avoiding conflict and horribleness. I also know that's probably a futile aim.

However, he is so stressed just now. Every day, he is shouting about something else (not just in relation to me and ds but also work, his family, etc,). He keeps flying off the handle and I'm a bit worried about where its heading. He's not the most stable person (duh! I guess that's obvious!).

I even wondered this morning if I should call his doctor but I think she'd tell him I'd been in touch and his response would just be that I should get up at 5am and do more (I know this because he has suggested it! Yes, I'll get up at dawn so you can play on the computer/go to bed as soon as you get in (whether it's 5pm or 8pm) leaving me to look after ds, do the washing, hang up clothes, sweep the floor, wash the dishes, check work emails, etc, etc). He doesn't even feed ds if he's up first with him in the morning never mind dress him . And tonight myself and ds were talking about being happy and FW said he wasn't happy cos he has a moany wife and ds.

His latest nonsense is to keep saying how he doesn't think people would expect his wife to look like me. They'd expect someone younger and thinner and blonder. . . I know he's just doing it to annoy me so I never respond to it but now I'm ranting on here instead - oops! sorry! . . . I've no idea where that came from . . .I actually have had a happy day with ds . . .

winnie the paperbag princess sounds great. I think I might get it as birthday presents for all the little girls that I know. Sounds refreshing and a far better message than the usual princess gumph that girls get rammed down their throat.

charlotte - good that FP has helped. I'm going to enrol on one too I think. when I email WA a couple of times they have sent some pages as attachments and a couple of the 'characters' have really resonated with me.

better you really do sound stonger already than a few weeks ago. So often we surprise ourselves with what we can cope with when we have to. It's fantastic that your sol seems to be coming good. You really need someone you can trust. I bet that has helped to boost your confidence. I'm sure it'll be horrible and tough facing him in court but as also sure that you'll do. FWIW your FW sounds scared to me!!

No news here. A nice quiet week. But FW is home tomorrow so who knows. Part of me hopes for a massive FW-itis out break and then I think I would have the strength to go (I know, I know, I don't need to wait for the abuse to re-start to leave but for now I'm treading water)

Rant away, Winnie; it's much better than pretending it's nothing and is washing over you. (Although that's the perfect approach when FW is in the room!) We get so accustomed to minimising these little barbs, but how can it not hurt a little?

I know I'm trying to leave in a way that has his agreement with the aim of avoiding conflict and horribleness. I also know that's probably a futile aim.

winnie lightbulb moment for me there - that's me too. I'm gradually realising that it won't happen this way. Also if I wait for the next blow-up then the same pattern will happen that I'll say I've had enough, he'll wait 24 hrs and then send the "I still love you, we should keep trying" text. But at this point I MUST NOT enter any discussion. I keep repeating - we have crossed a line and cannot go back. That is all I need to say. That is what I will say next time. It's funny really. each attempt where I fail to go does get me a baby step nearer as I do learn what I need to do differently the next time

I get the thinner comments too!!! Don't apologise for ranting here - it is one of the reasons for being here. He sounds vile at the moment by the way (sure you know that, living with him!)

Tether that's awful for someone (much less your P) to say that his wife should be younger, thinner, etc. Focus on yourself and ds.

Thanks, Charlotte sorry I x-posted with you earlier. It's great the FP is working so well for you. I think the confirmation and affirmation of being with other people who understand is invaluable (both at the FP and here!).
I think I do minimise a lot. Dmil made some nasty comments about me the other day and I mentioned them in passing to my dm. (tbh they are par for the course from dmil and I minimise and don't respond). However dm was very angry when I mentioned it. Her anger made me pause for thought as I realised I can't have told her all the other stuff dmil says as this week's comments were pretty mild by comparison! It also made me realise how much I accept without response or even much anger.

bounty I think every attempt and every conversation is worthwhile and does take us a step closer. I know for me the counsellor has helped too as I can trace back to childhood where I learnt to have such low expectations of people that say they love you. (because, of course, even whilst nsdh is being a complete FW at the moment, he is still making oblique comments about 'not liking people but still loving them'
I'm going to make a plan with timescales and then try to get him to agree to some of the logistics. And I'm going to add a bit more to the finances spreadsheet (I did start it but then got distracted) and finally go to see a solicitor. I keep trying to get myself together so I can make it through a solicitor's appointment without crying but I'm such a crier (always have been - books/films/music). I think I'll have to resign myself to the fact I'm probably going to cry and that's no reason not to go!

Thanks for having confidence in me ladies.
Bounty what do you think he is scared of? and I cry like a baby all the time at the sols, my eyes are still bad from yesterday - I think it is best to get it out there in that environment that in a way it's departmentalised.
Winnie and bounty I really would do what is best for you in terms of how you leave or if you leave. All these years later my FW makes it up as he goes along and changes his story on official court documents each time we have a hearing. They care not of what really happened anyway, no matter what you do you will be wrong and they will have been totally reasonable.

winnie he is AWFUL! I'm indignant on your behalf. BTW I had a 1/2 hour session via telephone with a solicitor yesterday, I sat in the car (kids were home) and did get viciously tearful a few times but I felt more in control being on the phone... may be a start for you to try?

I have had a day of being called LAZY because the house isn't spotless. Honestly it isn't that bad. I just started agreeing with him, told him I was no good at cleaning and he may be better off getting rid of me and getting himself a better wife I even offered to find him one on the internet!

I had a real deja vu experience this evening. We all sat at the table for dinner (unusual for us) and he 'controlled' with his bad mood any time one of us (DS, DD, me) broached a light topic of conversation, he brought it around to something negative ie, DD very excited about trip to Tenerife tomorrow with friends, H said how he never got to go on holiday (glaring at me) and how no one cared about him... etc, etc... and I realized that he is EXACTLY like my mother in this respect, she did this when I was growing up and all the family emotional energy was spent on trying to jolly her along and keep her from having one of her meltdowns. When she was happy, we were all happy just like with H, but as with him, we weren't genuinely happy, just relieved that she wasn't being depressing as hell for a few minutes. Interesting I've married my mother! (BTW mother is now on serious prozac and actually tolerable for short periods of time... but she lives in the USA and we never get over to visit)

better I think he is scared that his usual emotional manipulation and threatening behaviour that used to work on you will not be effective in court. That a judge will see through him. That he doesn't know any normal negotiating tactics and if the bullying doesn't work then he won't get his own way.

Things like accusing a witness of collusion and the head teacher of not being impartial just smack of desperation and clutching at straws to discredit other people. And then all the rubbish about friends watching your every move and trying to involve neighbours. He definitely sounds worried to me (and so he should be because you are going to fight for you and your DS)

thats I shouldn't smile but `I have married my Mother' made me - dinner sounds terrible, to deliberately do that to other people is terrible. He must very secure that you are not going to leave, do you ever talk about your mother and what she used to be like? do you think it would spark any realisation?

better you are entirely right. We do need to do what's best for us and they will rewrite history anyway. FW was already saying what he would tell people and I said 'you know that's not true' and he said 'I said it's what I'd tell people not that it was true'

thats if it's any consolation my house is never spotless so you could send your FW to mine to see how he coped in a messy house! I'm constantly leaving bits and pieces to see if FW will actually do something but he never does. I'm laughing at you offering to find him a new wife. FW has been going on about how he would marry again but has now decided (in the last 24 hours) that he won't because of some research that said happy, lasting marriages are ones where the husband helps at home. As he has no intention of ever lifting a finger, he can't have a happy relationship. Although I'm sure he'll forget that moment of clarity when the first gullible female comes along.

Thanks so much bounty my barrister said it felt very desperate, I didn't get chance to ask her to expand but you have put it so well thank you. How fast can Barristers read!!

thats, yy, I came to MN thinking my issues were narc mother/alcoholic father, but I had been more or less NC with them for a while,then I slowly realised FW used the same ways of control and manipulation. What you say about moods, totally get it. One of my motivations for leaving was to give dd some chance of a 'normal' emotional landscape growing up. A happy, laughter filled home, where bad moods come, and just as quickly, are discussed and go.

bounty, winnie, baby steps get you there, courage.

Am going to bed,

winnie I think that is why I feel strangely calmer today - his threats and manipulation of what other people will say and think and maybe do or what he is going to do are not having the effect on me that they used to.
I will give the barrister and sol a lot of credit for what they said to me yesterday. But I think I might be getting through this.. and actually healing some very old wounds. To stand firm and say `I don't care what you tell people or what anyone thinks or what you can coercive other people to say/do to me as I am comfortable about who I am and what happened' it very liberating - I am pretty sure this will not stay will me but I think I am feeling it for the first time, I don't want the feeling to go away. You all help me so much. I am so glad I found this thread.

Night Night sweetpea I can see your DD's smiling face, the smiles you make.

Thank you, yes, she is happier and freer to be herself.

You are sounding stronger, and your legal team sound on the ball. Totally rooting for you.

Am def going now!

sweetpea a happy, laughter filled home THIS is what life should be, and it is so within our grasps... it's like that around here when H isn't around but as he keeps reminding us he provides the money (so we can sit around on our lazy ar$es)... he asked us tonight to imagine what life would be like when he 'turned off the money tap' which he threatens he is going to do soon time to GO methinks!

better don't worry... he's dug his hole. I do wonder if the solicitors secretly enjoy that part of their jobs-- where they are handed on a plate something so ridiculous that they just get to rip it to pieces.

thats I hope so his money tap is not the only one, he is clinging onto the wrong forcet, what a FW he is.
I am going to bed now too - night everyone.

sweetpea being free to be yourself must be the best gift you can give to your DD. If you are yourself then everything else will fall into place. No wonder she is happier. Yes my baby steps will get there eventually. You can walk miles in baby steps, it just takes a long time and there may be some wobbles and tumbles on the way. My current inertia is just a wobble. I will get there.

The thread feels to be in quite a happy, strong place tonight. Despite the FWery trying to grind us down. So on that cheerful note I'm off to bed too. Night all.