Support for those in Emotionally Abusive relationships: 23

[CharlotteCollinsismovingon]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you?re dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans - He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples' therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change:
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials This is a site containing material for men who want to change - please don?t give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

Tis so sorry for this news, I have appreciated your advice so much and found you a tremendous source of inspiration. So glad you've taken control of your life now, sorry that others are making it so difficult for you. All the best to you, for the future. And I echo what others are saying, you will be truly missed.

Best of luck to others as well, cannot think straight as I'm having a terrible time of it right now, am still crying angry tears because H shouted at me this morning-- because I was stupid enough to tell him how much I'd earned doing my bit of work that I totally enjoyed doing, he said it isn't enough to bother with (about £1k which I was proud of and FFS it's better than nothing!) and I wasn't capable of earning any real money and how would I exist if he didn't earn all the money. WTF?? I suspect I can live quite happily on a few meager £'s per week if he F's off out of my life!

But someone just put a card through our door asking if we wanted to sell our house think they sell quick in our area and I have a telephone conversation booked with a solicitor to pre-discuss divorce proceedings, maybe all the fates are conspiring in my favour!

Go thats! My FW also yelled at me over my 'pittance' freelancer wage, told me I was being walked over and making a fool of myself by charging so little industry standard, demanded to see my invoices etc. It was just another way to a) put me back down in my rightful place, and b) get further control of my finances by suggesting I was mismanaging my invoices so he needed to do it for me. (I wouldn't let him though, so I got punished by him refusing for us to have a joint account, which meant I had to pay for all the household outgoings bar the small mortgage.)

Get ye to that solicitor. You'll feel loads better for it.

Hugs to all the panic attackees - it's not something I've ever had, but have seen a colleague have one, and it was awful.

Better can you start preparing yourself now for next week, so it doesn't come as quite such a shock to the system? I don't know how, but maybe sit and visualise yourself in the courtroom, then add FW there, and visualise yourself being calm and collected and speaking? Sounds a bit mad, but these things can help.

Tis :( I naively hoped your stalkers would lose interest. So sorry to see you go - you are an inspiration. How anyone could twist your words in an effort to undermine you after all you've been through for years is beyond me. Give them no air space! Hope, as pony says, that you can cut them out of your lives.

In one sense, I can empathise with Nosy Parker as I do think it's impossible to understand if you haven't lived with it over time. My sil still thinks there is a way through this and I've not yet tried to convince her that her brother isn't willing to do the work involved. What is so horrible about Nosy Parker, though, is her entitled assumption that she knows better about Tis's life than Tis herself. That really is insulting. If you don't understand someone else's situation, and that person is not a close friend who is confiding in you, then BUTT OUT AND GO LIVE YOUR OWN LIFE!

I probably didn't always do that myself, though. Perhaps Nosy Parker is 13yo...

Charlotte I am mindful of what i read in Lundy last night. that is anyone tries to stay neutral in this situation or 'sees both sides' then they are in fact carrying the flag for the abuser as the neutral ground benefits them and as such they are condoning what they have done. there is no neutral ground, mo two sides to everything. This shifts some of the blame which is rightfully all the abusers on to their target.

abuse is wrong. there is no middle ground. anyone who thinks there are two sides needs to get off the fence and realise that they are condoning abuse. which does not mean they need to confront the abuser but it does mean they need to stop telling the survivor what to do and start listening instead. and get their flaming judgy pants off.

I am so glad Lundy says that, as it makes it easier to believe. There is still a part of me that is very very uncomfortable with saying I am not to blame for this but he is. Partly, I think, because I still struggle to put into words what exactly is/was wrong. I think I've grasped it, but it slips through my fingers when I try to explain it to someone.

That's the other thing I was going to say about Tis's farewell. That you can twist just about anything into what you want, if you want to. My friend said recently that she thinks FW could charm anyone into believing anything. No wonder I don't know what to think any more; I'm used to someone else doing the thinking for me.

FW could charm anyone into believing anything. No wonder I don't know what to think any more; I'm used to someone else doing the thinking for me.

Which leads to the situation described by mink ember.... Where people are incapable of actually making a judgement.... The gas lighting grinds down the ability to see clearly and make correct judgements about what is really going on.

Tis, I have not been on here long, so I don't know you, but I wish freedom for you.

Nosy Parker, please, keep reading, perhaps you will learn how you also have been manipulated.

I've been thinking a lot about this issue over the last few days, having watched the link that Fi (I think it was) posted and then the Patrick Stewart link that I posted. Both of these talked about how DA is a men's issue, but most men don't see it as such, and don't consider themselves to be part of the problem. Not in my back yard. It's kind of linked to the issue of neutral ground that mink mentions, and the idea that if you are not against it, you support it by omission of action, which I think is a huge problem regarding DA (which includes EA).

I am not sure I am explaining myself very well. One thought I had was that no-one ever suggests that a child might be at fault in child abuse cases, that there are two sides to the story. No-one ever suggests that child abuse is a children's issue so therefore it's something the kids need to sort out, 'we're not affected so we don't need to do anything' kind of approach. As adults, we are all responsible for policing how we talk to kids, how we interact appropriately with them and what we teach them. As a society, we utterly do not condone abuse towards children. But towards women? Hmmmm, it's all a bit greyer, isn't it. As a society, DA is a 'women's issue' so mostly only women/men who have been affected have to think about it. But we are where we are because of societal views as a whole, yet society as a whole takes no forward responsibility for making it better. Not really.

This week, my DSis is up in arms that her 7yo daughter (and my 7yo son) has been taught the words 'penis' and 'vagina' as names for body parts at school as part of their v gentle (and wholly appropriate, imo) introduction to sex education further up the school. But sees nothing wrong with letting her daughter watch Beauty and the Beast and take in the message that 'just because someone kidnaps you, is horrible to you and forces you to do things against your will, doesn't mean they are a bad person'. (that's maybe not the best example, but you know what I mean, I hope)

Wow, just read that back, it comes across much rantier than I intended! Just thinking out loud in a safe place, I guess.

pony what you say deserves more consideration than I can give it right now (migraine)

But my initial thought is that women and children are different (women are adults) and this is used to 'victim blame'. Children generally cannot leave, women (theoretically) can (although we all know it is not that easy). That is the first point. This shifts the responsibility from men for their behaviour.

The second is that children are obviously powerless in society, having no access to independent money, lives etc and dependent on their parents/society. That again, is recognisable. Whereas women are put in this position where it is now dressed up as 'choice' - you have the 'choice' to be a SAHM or to retain an income. If you give up your income, you immediately become vulnerable, but no-one makes that argument because society and economic development depend on unpaid childcare. So, society needs women to be vulnerable (and again shifts responsiblity because it is their 'choice').

But working, independent, powerful women get abused too (Nigella Lawson), so the issue is really men's rights to abuse women, as a way of asserting power. It is about power. Most men don't see themselves as part of the problem because a) they are genuinely nice guys and/or b) they benefit from the power structures which perpetuate the problem.

This: Which leads to the situation described by mink.... Where people are incapable of actually making a judgement.... The gas lighting grinds down the ability to see clearly and make correct judgements about what is really going on.

You're telling me! A decision around shopping I ask you, has just taken me 5 days, I think, or was it 4... maybe only 3.. Oh I dunno...

totally getting the Beauty & the beast scenario, we all just lived that, minus the love. At the end of the day the men can threaten violence or beat the shit outta/throttle ya to intimidate/scare and get their controlling way... (any reading, you know who you are). Most women that might try to over control, with the underlying intent of causing emotional pain and distress would struggle on one level just due to shear physical ability, anyway, I'm not even talkin about women as they are such a small minority in abusing terms. It is the women/children that die at the hands of the males, and yes, it is a male issue. (I did post one of the links back there to 'abuse is a male issue').

and absolutely yy to Pants off Mink [judgey ones of course]

that was meant to be sheer of course. oops..

thats be proud of your work and ignore your FW. My H also tells me that I'm underpaid and walked all over by work. Wonder why I let others walk all over me ??!? (plus am paid the market rate) BUt he still tried to make me go to management demanding more money

charlotte My FW def thinks that I am at least half to blame. Am struggling with the concept of it's not my fault and that abuse is never wrong. I believe it, I really do, but am struggling with applying it to my life. It is good to see it written down.

pony I agree with both parts. And that Disney has a lot of explaning to do.

fi ha ha I wish you'd keep your shears out for my FW

tis sorry to see you leave and also want to add that I don't care about the misguided views of spies and lurkers, so don't feel you need to leave to protect us. Raising a in thanks for all your wisdom and support.

Rubbish, stressful day here where I told nsdh mid-argument that my plan for the summer was to leave him and move out. It is my plan but I didn't want to tell him in anger with so much still to put in place. I'm guessing he'll either pretend I didn't say it or try to be nice to reel me back in. So tired of this cycle. Sorry, I'm just thinking out loud. . .

pony yy to the negative programming of Disney, fairytales, etc. Have you ever read the Paperbag Princess? It's a great reversal of traditional tales (and includes the word 'bum' which makes it feel doubly subversive!) .

tether - no I haven't read that book, must get it! Fingers crossed he'll just pretend you didn't say it, but don't bank on it.

Tis Don't know what to say other than "we'll miss you" and of course, wish you all the best. Don't let them erode all your support - if you can't be here, then please make sure you find another source of support.

Sorry I haven't been on much lately - I've been swamped with things to take care of, then falling asleep in the evening as I'm so tired. I've had a few things that I've had to bring up to H, and he took it well, so that's at least positive. A few more things I need to iron out with him, and I've noticed his patience with the DCs is slipping during visits, so I'm going to take some time (with another person present) to speak to him about it.

I'll have to read back to catch up, which may take me some time. But I hope that everyone is okay and safe.

y y Bounty I think it was one of those freudian moments

Intrigued by the paperbag princess tether

sorry to hear of the FW struggles going on... peace and safety to all xx

Hey

Just over 2 weeks now since h left. I'm surprised how detached I feel. I thought I would be devastated. I'm not upset at all. Don't feel at all stressed.
I do get anxious when I think of practicalities if we stay separated. Money, housing etc.
but oddly I don't miss him at all. 22 years together and really our relationship was purely based on passion.

I have been thinking about our counselling session and I believe he thinks the counsellor was on his side.

He is doing all the things I predicted he would do. Flowers, texts, calling round on the pretext of jobs needing doing around the house. Suggesting days out and weekends away. I do feel bad for him..... Mad I know. It's just all a little too late. But nothing seems natural.

The house is lovely and peaceful. I do feel that a black cloud has been lifted. But I am waiting for a bolt of lightning to rock me.

Any words of wisdom anyone. Is it normal to feel detached like this?

Hi FFF, your mind and body are probably just enjoying the space and lack of tension in the house. There is not a script which you need to follow in terms of feelings, it is very much individual. So devastation is not necessary. I had a range of feelings, still do, but these did not include devastation or missing him, except very fleetingly. More like slowly getting myself back.

Thank you sweetpea

Anxiety is through the roof this morning. Dizzy, sick nausea, sweats etc. really thought I had it under control.

What was I saying about waiting for the lightning to strike? Aghhhhhhh

FFF sorry for the anxiety today but it was so nice to read your post from last night re: the black cloud lifting!

I'm in such a bad state this morning... heart is pounding etc. And I feel guilty as if it's my fault. So many abusive things going on. H yelled at me this morning because I hadn't woken him up by 11:00, I took him a cup of coffee about 9 but he was still asleep so I left it, we were out last night and he complained he didn't feel well when we got back so I figured he wanted to sleep in this morning, I waited up for DD to get back from her school prom (2AM) then i fell asleep on the sofa, could have gone up to bed but didn't feel like risking waking him up, so I had a bad nights sleep. So this morning he had a complete fit at me for ignoring him, only thinking about myself and never about him, how I'd been late to the function last night (I wasn't but had texted him previously to ask if I could be a bit late as wanted to drop DD off at friend's house as she'd be wearing her prom dress and didn't want to take bus) when he said NO YOU CANNOT BE LATE I dropped her off and went straight to function (meaning I was v rushed) so WASN'T too late but just because I ASKED he was angry!

This morning I have been hatching an evil plan there may be some people interested in buying our house and I've been talking to them without telling H. They want to come around and see it so I told him it's not really a bad idea, they may not like it anyway and even so we could still list it with agents. Of course he is not having that... wants to do tons of DIY before we put it on the market and said he was going to get some contract cleaners in because I was not capable of cleaning the house. That of course hurts my feelings... plus he says I've done such a sh*t job (or lack of) on the garden that he's going to have to come in and do it... I don't really believe that these things are going to add much to the sale price of the house!

I spoke to the solicitor yesterday... sat in the car, I did cry a few times as I went through the details so was glad it wasn't face to face...

Bounty I thought your story of renting the flat to have a place to go sounded such a good exit strategy... I am now thinking about doing the same... just wondering how 'legal' it is to borrow 'equity' money off of our joint mortgage to do it with. I think I need to get some space away from him. We could have this house sold in a week or two but he's going to drag it out all summer .

Massive hugs to you all today, it must be the gloomy weather not helping either. FFF I hate that naughty anxiety when it just seems to come out of knowhere and you think `I was ok yesterday'. I try and think it is my mind processing things and it comes on and then goes. Hope it goes again very soon.
Thats I saw my sol yesterday and it went really well but I came out with very sore eyes. I think it is good to let it out, it's true what you are saying and it hurts having to talk about it. Sorry you have had a rubbish morning, hate having a bad nights sleep, I only managed 3 hours but think adrenalin has kicked in as I'm ok at the mo - it will hit me later.
Rose he isn't going to go is he? I just hope you can find somewhere soon.
Exp has put in his latest fairy tale without a happy ending statement. It is very confrontational and I don't know how much I should post on here but I can't believe he actually says in it that his friend who lives near me would see who went in and out of my house and informed him about it WTF! How does he think that is appropriate behaviour. He has acussed an official witness in the case of coluding with me regarding her statement (and at the same time filed random statements from people who are not official court ordered witnesses but he has managed to coerice into lying for him - those Lundy Allies strike again) I am pretty sure the judge would have to dismiss those? and he has even accussed my DS's head teacher (who runs a large school and has many, many years expereince in these matters) of being biased towards me and over criticle of him. There is so much more and prob said too much already but he has sent a copy of my statement to a friend of his and I am waiting to hear back from my sol. about this as it has private info in about DS, I think that is illegal?

better what an awful situation. Solicitor should be able to advise but can you get anything like a restraining order as it sounds like harassment? Stay strong!

They have shown themselves for what they are. My sol gave me good advice for the purposes of the next hearing which is very soon - don't rise to it - just stand by my statement, we have an offer on the table that I am comfortable with - we will make that offer and if they say no she said we take it to the judge. She explained the reasons she would give for that offer and why no more than that and I felt it was fair - slightly more than I wanted but a good way forward. We now must hope and pray. Otherwise this will not end well -FW is denmostrating just what he is capable of and he would continue this, I predict is would get worse. The sooner cold water can be poured on this the better - my exp is excalating a situation by involving my neighbours - how he thinks this will benefit DS I have no idea. I've lent Lundy out and I need to read the allies secton grrr. Waiting to hear back from my sol regarding the legalities of the statement being passed on and private information shared.

pony he asked this morning if I'd meant what I said or if I was just saying it. I asked if he honestly thought we could fix this relationship and he said no, and that he didn't want to try because he neither likes or respects me anymore, etc, etc (more critical comments).

As for the Paperbag Princess SPOILERS (Ooh! I feel just like River Song!) . A prince comes to woo a princess but the castle is attacked by a dragon who burns everything to the ground and kidnaps the prince. The only thing left for the princess to wear is a paper bag. She sets off to rescue the prince, travelling far and then tricking the dragon so he has no energy or fire left, and she can lead the prince to safety. However, the prince (rather than being grateful and awed by her strength, commitment and intellect) starts to criticise her for wearing a paper bag and not looking like a princess. In return she calls him a bum and goes home alone. He's a FW and she's amazing!

better it just seems to go on and on and he is definitely turning the legal system for the purposes of abuse. that whole bit about watching you in his statement is so bizarre. it is as if either he cannot see he is making himself look insane or he really doesn't care as long as he gets to get at you.

glad your sol is giving good advice. as he is going fir a reaction i think this is best. (((hugs)))

fff i know what you mean about feeling very detached. i think the panic is that you cannot yet clearly see how the future will pan out. it will ease of gradually. do you have valium to get you through an emergency? (obviously not advisable regularly but i find even knowing it is there if i need it helps)

rose hope the call to landlord goes well.