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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Support for those in Emotionally Abusive relationships: 23

999 replies

CharlotteCollinsismovingon · 12/06/2013 23:32

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you?re dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans - He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples' therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change:
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials This is a site containing material for men who want to change - please don?t give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

OP posts:
ScrewIt · 20/06/2013 22:41

Hi can I join please? I'm in a bit of a mess & just need something, I'm not really sure what.

I'm 5 months pregnant, my P really pushed for the pregnancy, it was planned & happened really fast. Anyway about 5 weeks ago he changed & I'm really confused about what's going on.

He told me its over but he's still there & hasn't moved out. He says pregnancy made me lazy & boring & we just weren't having fun anymore. I was taking the piss expecting him to do too much & wasn't being attentive enough. Anyway my behaviour made him fall out of love with me so it's all my fault it's over.

He swings between saying he'll take the baby from me & I should have an abortion (as the baby would be better off dead than with me for a mother). He says he'll do everything in his power to ruin my life.

He says my feelings don't matter, as this is entirely about how unhappy he is with me. Anything I perceive him to have done wrong is nothing more than my reasons to make him not love me.

There's loads more besides, it really kicked off & I left the house & have gone away for a couple of weeks.

He's still there though. If he feels that way why doesn't he just go? Is this just one giant head-fk & he thinks he can treat me like this cause I'm pregnant? I really don't understand what's happening, I thought we were happy. How can someone change so much so fast?

Sorry for the long post, I did try to be brief. Also sorry for not being up to speed on your thread I hope that's ok.

FairyFi · 20/06/2013 22:49

please try to congratulat eyourself on your huge efforts of today! You have done sooo much I can't believe you're not talking about a week's activity or a month.... Its probably just too much to take in in one go! all that in one day. Its amazing you have done all that.

.... and its sad... and you will be ready for it whenyou are ready. To shield the vulnerable, we do numb? does that make sense?

There's nothing to do til you are ready then, and sounds like you have lovely support for when you are.

We'll hang back on the party poppers til then (ooops a couple just went off for today's big steps!) ... well done xxx

FairyFi · 20/06/2013 22:50

ooops x-posted Screw Blush that last for Bounty

Verygentlydoesit · 20/06/2013 22:56

bounty you've done brilliantly well today my lovely, you really really have. I am so proud of you, we all are.

Please don't give yourself a hard time for not moving anything from home that he might miss, or moving yourself in. You've taken huge strides today. You will go when you are ready. Be kind to yourself, recognise how hard this process is, you are doing so very well.

I think I can understand what you are feeling about the quietness of your new place. You have yet to 'bond' with it, it feels unfamiliar and the lack of noise and having none your own familiar things will be emphasising this.

I believe you will bond with it though- helped along by having your stuff there, a good dose of mess, the radio on etc.. Is there anything homely or lovely but inexpensive that you could get for it? I bought myself a flowery patchwork type quilt thing last week. I've always had a soft spot for this kind of thing, it is rather twee but I love it and believe it or not, snuggling under it with the cat has been really nice Blush.

Hang on in there, keep swimming.

Noregrets78 · 20/06/2013 23:00

oo lavender big red flags, reminds me a lot of my FW. A mere 20 year age gap here, but I can see now why he targeted me when I was young and impressionable and flattered. Favours all round for everyone, rapid declarations of love and commitment, all sucks you in... what can you complain about? That someone's fallen for you so quickly? Or that someone's being too nice? But it sounds as though you know all that already. So difficult. You could try to test the water, but if she's resistant to hearing bad things about him, then you really have to try not to slag him off too much or she'll withdraw and refuse to talk to you about it. I really feel for you. The last 15 years have been horrible for me, but my mother feels so guilty that she wasn't able to do anything about it.

bounty you've made huge strides today, don't beat yourself up about not taking that final step.

ah screw what a knob you have my sympathies. You have my blood boiling. That child will grow up just fine with you as a mother, and hopefully will never know that his / her father suggested an abortion. He sounds like a classic FW and he has no chance taking baby away. I'm so so glad you've already escaped, I really hope you're able to cut him off for the remainder of your pregnancy and just enjoy the special time.

Sorry I haven't replied to everyone I just can't keep up with the pace!

My FW is still a FW. We agreed finances verbally a couple of weeks ago - saw my sol today to start drawing up the consent order. Phoned DH to check he was still planning on signing it as it will be sent straight to him, and got a total rant - apparently the abusive phone call I received a while back including the phrase 'I'm not sticking to anything I've ever agreed to' meant he would not be going ahead with the finances, and I need to go and see him and start from scratch. In return for agreeing what we were doing, I gave him my spare cash so get him out of debt, on the basis I would not be spending so much on a solicitor. He is a total cock lodger and I'm fuming. I'm going to get it drawn up anyway, stick it under his nose and say sign it, or I'll take you to court and you'll get less (I'm currently being generous). Couldn't care less if it costs me an arm and a leg I'm sooooooo sick of him grrrrrrrrrr

FairyFi · 20/06/2013 23:01

... and so sorry to hear your tale ScrewIt

I just wonder if you are his first pregnant gf? Only because his change has been so drastic and fast! Well done for getting out so quick. Are you safe where you are? I don't have experience of this, but didn't want to just read & leave.

Just to say, I hope you are ignoring his words completely? That how you feel is just as important here, and actually more important as you are pregnant but out of your home.

No need to apologise, sounds like there is a lot more that you might need to get out too, so really just to say very welcome from me, and I'm sorry tohear ... sending you warmest wishes and hoping that you will keep posting and feel you can settle right in here hun... xxx

ScrewIt · 20/06/2013 23:16

Yes I'm his first pregnant gf Fairy I'm safe where I am & a little anxious about what I'll be returning home to a week Monday. I do know the way he is is wrong, I just can't understand how he doesn't? Do they not see it or just not admit it?

Thanks NR78 I'm not worried about him taking the baby away. He's basically living off me at the minute so that worries me that he won't go without a fight, despite the fact he doesn't seem to want to stay.

Sorry for not commenting on anyone else, I'm sure I'll slowly get up to speed.

bountyicecream · 20/06/2013 23:28

screw - welcome and sorry you're here. Abuse often starts in pregnancy or just after a baby is born so your partner is classic there although he seems to have escalated pretty quickly (which is good in a way as you can see it clearly, whereas when it is very slow to increase it starts to feel normal).

I would focus on practical things a bit as it gives your head chance to come to terms with it. Number one thing is that you will be fine as a single Mum and in fact your baby will be much better without him in your lives. Number two - there is zero chance of him getting the baby off you. You could see a solicitor for 30 mins free advice if you wanted more legal advice. Also I'd talk to your midwife too. I'd bet you won't be the only lady she has dealt with in this situation.

Is the house yours, his or joint? and rented or owned? Because you need to get your own space where you can prepare for your baby and also be free of the horrible things he's saying to you.

I'd also be a little prepared that he may appear to change his mind totally and say he was just nervous about the baby coming and appear to become a doting dad and partner. Try not to let him sucker you back in as this is the classical cycle of abuse. nasty-nice-nasty. When they say they've changed and they're sorry, they are lying just to get you to take them back.

I really hope you have lots of good supportive friends and family in RL. Stay here and you'll get lots of great virtual friends too.

fi/very/noregrets thanks for making me feel better about progress.

very that makes sense about bonding with the house. I'd actually bought these lovely cushions for the sofa that i love and H would hate. The amazing thing is that I'd not seen the sofa for a long time before today but they match perfectly. I think normal lived in clutter will help too (and I'll need to live there to generate it ;) ) at the mo it is a bit 'show home' - but won't be for long once DD and Ddog arrive!!!

noregrets what an idiot your FW is being. And starting from scratch will achieve what? Confused I like your 'go for it anyway' attitude. sometimes a little less cash is money well spent if it means being free

CharlotteCollinsismovingon · 20/06/2013 23:31

lavender - wow, that must be terrifying, seeing it all happen so fast with 'danger' written all over it! I think the important thing to do is to be in it for the long haul for her: she may not see clearly for years and may (have to) cut you off before she does, so definitely tell her repeatedly that you are always there for her and love her and support her no matter what. You could try showing her this rather fabulous article as it is easier to hear hard things from a stranger than family. There are so many things on that list that my very-respectably-abusive H did in the early days; I'm sure her fiance will be there repeatedly. She may dismiss it, though. It's a tough one. :(

Welcome, ScrewIt. Sorry you have to be here. That sounds horrible, and disorienting, with the speed of his change.

OP posts:
CharlotteCollinsismovingon · 20/06/2013 23:32

bounty, echoing "wows" of respect at what you've accomplished today - pat yourself on the back and put the rest aside till you feel strong enough again.

OP posts:
bountyicecream · 20/06/2013 23:36

I do know the way he is is wrong, I just can't understand how he doesn't? Do they not see it or just not admit it?

A difficult question. My FW has just written me an email kind of admitting that some of the things he's done are not right but then justifying them in response to things that I'd said or done. It that makes sense.

Like "I know I shouldn't hurt you by saying x but I had to in order to protect myself because I'm hurting so much too"

But has never said sorry.

So I think that they don't see it in the same way as a normal person would, but the bits which they may admit are wrong they will have a good reason (in their mind, obviously not really a good reason)

Does he say similar things to you if you have other people around. A lot of the things my FW says to me he wouldn never say in company which tells me he must at least realise that most people would see it as wrong, even if he can explain away why he needs to do it.

minkembernard · 20/06/2013 23:45

bounty Thanks and hugs. your house will become a home when you are in it. deep breath. you'll be more than fine.
good idea from sol re.email.

screwit so sorry you find yourself here and such a vulnerable time. everyone is right you will be better off without him but that does nite make it any less unfair ire any less scary to be pg to someone who should be supporting you and who is behaving like a total headcase.
sounds like he thought if you were pg he would have you where he wanted you, tied to him and he could carry on cocklodging. but then he realised that he easy not going to be star of the show anymore.
abusive men only think if their own needs. if he wo't go can you kick him out?
and log everything nasty he says or ddoes you my need it later.

but mostly, big hugs what a rotten situation to be in. however once you have your dc it will be hard...but wonderful just the to of you and your extended family.

topknob · 20/06/2013 23:46

I just need to get this down before I forget it all tomorrow. He didn't wank over porn at a previous address although I caught him at at. He didn't turn me down constantly whilst still watching porn whilst I was pg with dd2. I turned him down once, as he mentioned tonight. He used the kids against me tonight. DD2 facetimed him to ask us to stop arguing. he becomes dad of the year in asking me to tell her everything is ok, when it isn't I end up looking the bad one as I refuse t say all is ok. Then my almost 15 year old comes down and asks us to stop, he says everything is fine, I said it isn't I get ignored. Is it me??? please be honest, I hate him so much at the moment, is it normal to feel this unwanted and useless?

topknob · 20/06/2013 23:51

And now he is all comfortable in bed and I am on the sofa again. I just wanted to feel wanted.

Noregrets78 · 21/06/2013 00:02

screwit yes you have a cocklodger! I must say I'm quite experienced in that field, although not very successful in dealing with it...... If I was placing a bet: He won't go, he'll have to be forced out with a crowbar. Don't assume that talking him round will achieve any results, or appealing to his better nature, he won't do a thing that's not in his best interests. Is the house in your name, or his, if you can't legally get him out, then try to move out yourself. Knobs.

minkembernard · 21/06/2013 00:16

lavendar there is also a book recommended by lundy for supporting people in abusive relationships. sorry can't find my lundy just now though.
i did refer to it somewhere in previous thread- it has storm in the title.
must be very worrying for you.

BreatheandFlyAway · 21/06/2013 00:23

Bounty wow, congratulations, you have made a wonderful step, even if you move in a bit later than expected, it's there and it's a fantastic future. It's natural it doesn't feel like home and home does, but your perspective on your p/t hours and how that turned out is spot on. I am in awe of your strength.

Screw welcome though so sorry you have to be here. top very sorry indeed you are feeling down.

My STBX is being a very charming hoover right now. I am distanced and couldn't contemplate a return to him but it's blurring the motivating anger IYSWIM?

Fool, pony and all dear thread friends, hello Smile I am fighting some depression but came off the ADs a month ago and am not (yet!) contemplating going back on. I have resorted to excercise Grin not my usual style but boy do I need to do something to shift lard and shift me.

NotSuchASmugMarriedNow · 21/06/2013 00:51

FairyFi thank you so much for that link

Here is another decent man who regularly comes to the UK to lecture -

In fact I think i'll put another thread up next time I know he's in the uk I need to advertise him more

sweetpeasunday · 21/06/2013 06:59

bounty, the bit of the email you quoted, I had to do this, because you did that. Two wrongs do not make a right, and we all have responsibility for our own behaviour.
My first serious bf was a FW, when I tried to end it, he threatened suicide. When I did end it, he locked me in a room, beat me to the floor and threatened to kill me because I had hurt him so much.
My mother did something appalling when I was pregnant, which would be identifying to hostile lurkers, she recently justified it by saying she felt badly treated Hmm not sure how as she was emotionally abusive most of my life and I kept coming back for more.
FW blamed me in ways too numerous to mention, I did x because you did y.
It is NOT an admission that the things they have done are not right, it is more abuse, because they are saying, you deserved it.
There is nowhere to go from there. Except beyond the crap.

breathe, hugs lovely lady. Strength. Exercise is good for the soul. See RL friends. Celebrate the small things you enjoy. This bad patch will pass. It is in a way a natural response to what is happening, so go gentle on yourself, we can only take so much.

I am also struggling, so am going to take my own advice. Thanks to all and apologies for not replying to everyone. I am going to take a deep breath and face the day.

AliceDoesntLiveHereAnymore · 21/06/2013 07:23

Screw welcome, although sorry you're going through such a difficult time right now. You have a few positive things right away in your favour - you say "partner" so I assume you're not married? That makes things a bit less sticky right there legally. Whatever you do, do NOT let him talk you into putting his name on the birth certificate - it will make things unbelievably more complicated for you! He won't be able to take the baby from you. Is the house a rental? Yours or his? Well done for getting away from him so you can be safe. I agree with bounty that seeing a solicitor will probably be quite helpful. Removing him from the house is doable, but it depends on your set up (rental, etc) and who is on the paperwork. Again, a solicitor can help you there.

Bounty wow! You've done loads already! Well done! That initial move (or having him move out) seems like such a huge hurdle, but I found the longer I put it off, the harder it looked. Once it was done and I had a few days to get used to it, I was thinking "I should have done this sooner." My silly comment of the day? Your new place isn't going to seem like home and look "lived in" until... well... you're living in it. Grin I have made myself a goal of doing something once a week (minimum) to make the house "mine" whether it be putting up a new decoration or picture or (in my instance where I haven't moved) changing the furniture around. Doing something to create new memories in the house. New recipe to try, new game for the dcs, anything different from the norm, really. It has made quite a difference for me. But honestly, you'll go there when you're ready.

lavender I know where you're coming from on this one. I do know a couple with this dynamic, except the male isn't her boss. She is in her 20s and he is in his late 60s. We didn't want to openly discourage it, but could definitely foresee some problems with it. A few years later now, he is having health problems (related to age and poor lifestyle), he is very possessive of her (as he is worried she'll meet a man more her age and leave him), he cannot get her pregnant (again due to age and health issues) so she now cannot have children in this relationship. It's frustrating to watch. Have you had an honest discussion with her about the drawbacks of these types of relationships? This is sexual harassment at work as well IMO, as he is using his position and authority over her to influence her. Can his behaviour be reported anywhere? If he is not owner of business, then to HR or actual owner? If he is owner, then is there any type of standards organisation he belongs to? Just tossing ideas out there, in case any helps.

Noregrets how aggravating that he is backing out of agreements. Glad that you're able to call him on it and keep things in check though. What a relief it'll be when it's all sorted!

Bounty had to laugh when I read your comments about the email with the excuses. H is like that "I'm sorry, but..." or "I shouldn't have done that, but..." the minute I hear "but" after any type of apology, I know it's useless. He isn't sorry, he's just doing lip service and justifying his actions. And H will also say things to me that he'd never say to someone else or in front of someone else.

topknob What he's doing is horrible, but typical, I'm afraid. Your 15yo may take it at face value initially, but they must be working it out that he is lying. 15yos are pretty observant IMO and understand the dynamics much better than younger children might. Can you talk to your dcs when he is not present and perhaps discuss the situation with them? Not the details, but go over how they are feeling and such.

AliceDoesntLiveHereAnymore · 21/06/2013 07:24

Fly mine is in charming mode right now, after some slippage the other day. Always makes me a bit edgy. Hmm

FairyFi · 21/06/2013 08:28

breathe wafting over happy vibes for you lovely and some uplifting [smiles] to try on Smile .. and some other stuff to make you feel good and warm inside Smile lotsof love xxx

Thank you for the man on the 'man box' link NotA - somehow it is sooo validating when you hear men speaking out about it.

horsetowater · 21/06/2013 08:31

In 5 minutes I'm off to the GP to talk about how I feel... I really don't want to go on anti-depressants. Been here before but my problems are definitely related to the fact that I've been with a FW for nearly 30 years.

horsetowater · 21/06/2013 08:32

By the way I've been here loads about 10 threads ago! I think I was on the first one!

horsetowater · 21/06/2013 08:33

Blimey we're on thread 23 already!

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