Support for those in Emotionally Abusive relationships: 23

[CharlotteCollinsismovingon]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you?re dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans - He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples' therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change:
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials This is a site containing material for men who want to change - please don?t give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

Please someone tell me that this is abusive. Yesterday H 'told me off' for anything he could think of starting with

1. we were leaving (involves transport by boat, long story) and he said I hadn't put the boat cover on straight, I went and straightened it up and he sent me back again because he said it wasn't on right at the back... then
2. I had a small bag of rubbish which I put in the back of the car. He went ballistic at me because the council should have delivered a bin already (sort of my fault as I hadn't chased them up about it, called them a few weeks ago) and he said 'I should make you EAT that bag of rubbish because you haven't done your job'.... then
3. he started thinking about all the things I hadn't done and shouted at me because I hadn't printed something out for him, that he'd asked a week ago, an inquiry into planning for a neighbour, but to be honest I hadn't put it as a high priority and he hadn't reminded me
4. (this was in the space of a 30 minute car journey) the fact that we had £6 overdraft fees because I'd gone overdrawn for 6 days and not transferred in money fast enough, we have an agreed overdraft but they charge £1 day for being overdrawn... it was unfortunate but really not a big deal...( he had found the letter in the post and accused me of mismanagement, as he never checks the accounts, I deal with all things money related with it it would have been OK if he hadn't found out)

so he went on and on, reaching into the far corners of his mind to find examples of things I had done wrong...

I cannot see straight, DD's last A2 exam is tomorrow and I always said I'd keep things calm until then. What I'm really disturbed by is the way his mind jumped to 'EAT' the bag of rubbish, WTF? He's not violent but this is the way he thinks. He is getting worse... right??

Sorry for the rant. High tension here due to exams.

Oh and I told him I am going out to a concert with friends (not him) on Saturday so it may be latent anger expressing ... I told him 2 days ago and his reaction to me telling him was 'I don't f-ing care. Do whatever you want, you always do. You only think about yourself and never think about me... blah blah' Well I AM going, concert at Wembley, and I've never been and plan to need the most of it despite him HATING me for it!

BloomingRose Calling you names is abusive. And two violent incidents is two incidents too many!! It sounds like he likes to put you down and then because your self-esteem is lowered, he knows he can push the blame on you and you won't fight back. Please remember - if you're not happy, you have every right to leave. It doesn't have to fit someone's textbook example of abuse - abuse comes in many shapes and sizes, unfortunately. Don't try to understand his behaviour - you will wear yourself out in the process. Decide if it's the way you want to live - if it's not, start thinking about making changes for yourself.

thatsnot He told you he should make you EAT that bag of rubbish because you haven't done your job?!?! Horrible git! I agree, it does sound like he's angry that you're going out without him and he's determined to take it out on you and make you miserable. As far as printing something out for him, please check - he has hands, they work and all? Can't he print it out for himself - you're not his PA. It sounds like he expects you to take care of everything yourself, but then sits back and criticises how it's done. If he is not willing to do the job himself, he has no right to criticise IMO. Enjoy your concert!!!

Thatsnot OMG, the more I read, the more I wanted to cry and it amazing me that they think it is totally aceptable.
sweetpea this is exaclty how I see it with my exfw, especially the bit about thikking I could cope with it... but then the bar kept being raised for me too See, this is the thing, I think FW always had the qualities which made him a FW in the end, I just did not recognise them, or thought I could cope with them and it would be fine.

Thatsnot I think you're right that its getting worse and will soon try to make you EAT said bag of rubbish.

I got aware of this kind of 'goading' a long time ago, and would try to get 'under' it, its something teens do, and kids generally, in learning to own their feelings, but what I found was that there wasn't any amount of reasoning or rationalising or understanding or bringing back to the point, to be done, it was relentless and steam trainish, unswerving in its determination to drive home the chaos causing/head mess causing effect, or reaction from you to then give him carte blanche (or so he thinks) to let rip. .. and of course, goading, is abuse.

He sounds like the 'withholder/stonewaller' and 'water torturer' and is maintaining control by denying, and or blaming you, Rose and a big hello again xx

There is not one post on here that makes me think that ANY of you are in appropriate or "normal" relationships...It takes a long time to see the wood for the trees sometimes but trust yourself you will.

Dashing in from a (sadly unproductive day at work) to say I'm thinking of you all, especially bounty- I really hope things have gone as you hoped today bounty.

We are all here to offer you support, whatever the outcome of today.

fool I have started the freedom programme and for me the most effective part that makes me see what you say, is when they talk about that "normal" relationship/ the friend.
Now when I think `that doesn't seem right' I see the friend in my mind and I see it clearer, the friend would not do that.

I think it's today been established that we have to keep the visit limit to what we had set. H came over today for a brief time (confirmed with me ahead of time), lost his temper repeatedly, and really stressed out the dcs. I told him that this wasn't going to happen anymore as it wasn't fair on the dcs or me (and obviously he can't retain control of his behaviour for that many hours in a week ). By the time he'd left, I was feeling that same level of frustration I was feeling daily when he was here. I could never live like that again.

alice I am so sorry to hear that this has happened to you and your DC.

oh Alice - you are making it different now tho, so it can't happen again. The distance makes it such a shock when you suddenly experience it again, it has a lot more force, than when in the FOG of the relationship. Its just showing how much you have moved on from it yourself, and the DC will see you acting to protect & support them in knowing its wrong.

The distance makes it such a shock when you suddenly experience it again, it has a lot more force, than when in the FOG of the relationship.

This, definitely, Fi.

And there is one word that resonates for all of us: Boundaries...these FWs don't respect them and we don't have the skills to trust ourselves and maintain them. It it IS ok to have boundaries and for them to be strong and immutable and that does not make you or me unreasonable...whatever our mixed up brains and emotions might tell us.

Fi thanks so much for that link. I think I want to marry that man.

Hey Rose, nice to see you posting again.

Alice - I think it's only when you get out that you really realise how awful it was, and wonder how you were able to put up with it. I'm sooooo glad you are on the other side now.

fool still always fab to see you posting on here. Hope you are doing ok.

pony i second that.

did anyone notice him slip in 'perpetrator is an ordinary man' ?? I'm not sure about that atall, unless he's meaning you can't tell them apart from the 'real' men?

That's what I took that as meaning, Fi.

:) nice to see you too.

Life is a bit tricky but I pop in regularly to keep up, although may not have the energy to post. have watched you all grow and mature like a proud elder sibling (is that patronising?) and suspect you will be accelerating past me as your lives flourish without the FWs. I make progress but oh so slowly.

fool I am sorry that things are moving slowly. I always think how kind you were when I joined.

My daughter is entering into a relationship (already engaged!)which my family and her friends are very worried about. she recently (5 weeks ago) started a new job as a secretary to the sole propreiter of a business. He has already promised to make her partner, wants to marry her and have children! He has a very bad reputation about young women and heard rumours of sexual abuse. he has bought her many things, one of which a puppy, and even offered to pay off her debts, this is not a comment to say that she is a gold digger but that he is making it difficult for her to say no to him, feeling indebted or something? he also made a big thing about becoming involved in our family and employing her best friend, trying to gain her trust? He is already showing signs of jealousy and more and more red flags are coming up. not to mention the fact that my daughter is 24 and very vulnerable as she was seriously ill with ME and he is 69! Does anyone have any advice on what we should do to prevent relationship or just to be supportive? anything would be appreciated. thanks xx

oh Fool You have your hands so full of babies! not sure what my excuse is Are you getting enough help with it all?? I hope you have a good rest tonight and feel some more energy in the morning.

Your life too will flourish lovely amazing supportive Fool... it all changes doesn't it xx

thats, I think the eating the rubbish comment is dehumanising and extremely offensive. It must have been extremely stressful to have been stuck in the car, with him berating you. Do you have a plan for after dd's exams?. I can't remember, but I hope so.

Rose, I second Alice in so far as what matters here is you, and how you want to live, not trying to understand him.

Alice, so sorry you are having to deal with this. Remember you can set boundaries, though it sounds like you are already doing everything you can. Are his/your parents around? Anyone to help/be there during contact? I am guessing you are staying during what are already brief visits to make sure he does not kick off. Which means you do not get a break and the onus is all on you two make sure he behaves. How do dcs feel, do they talk once he is gone. Do you think less contact would upset them?

fool, always wise and well chosen words. I am sorry things are slow for you.

I am having a wobbly day today, thinking it must have been me, but then I wrote down all the things he said about me, and put together it was relentless. Obviously, he didn't say them all at once, more drip, drip, and when I was not doing what he wanted, and then the things he said about dd, and about my friends, and then you think, well, if I was all those things, why did he stay? So, the answer would be dc2, but we didn't always have dc2, and he wasn't sure if he wanted dc2, so why? Because he could not do better, because his previous relationship had failed and I walked into his life with a big sign saying damaged, no need to care. But I was actually okay, I was doing fine, I was achieving a lot. So, the sign was well-hidden, if it was there. So, why? And why keep going?

Definitely need sleep here, I think. It is like I want to think I imagined it, because then it is okay, but actually I didn't and it is not. Gah.

lavender, wow, that is a difficult one, I think you can be supportive of her, but still express concerns about the relationship. In my own experience, trying to prevent the relationship means she may withdraw from your confidence, or he may use it to isolate her, so keep an open door. What friends does she have? What kind of relationships are they in? Can you have a general conversation about marriage and children, how she envisaged it before she met him, what kind of things she values, where she sees herself in ten years time? In other words, broader points, rather than negative about him.

But yes, he is abusing his position and you are right to be uneasy, regardless of the age gap. Although I think the age gap makes it more obvious.

lavender hi. That sounds so worry especially as a mother. Has she only known this man for 5 weeks? That in itself would be a huge red flag if they are already talking marriage and children. And the age gap is very large. And working together, him being the boss etc is certainly lots of control.

Is her self esteem low? I wonder whether having (?had) ME makes her think that this is as good as it gets and it is her only chance of marriage and a family. Does she have many friends of her own age? Does she get out much?

Advice is tricky. I suppose you could go down the practical route of gently suggesting how old a father he will be and that any children will have more of a grandfather (and then probably no father and an early age)

I think the big thing is not to be too pushy or to be seen to actively try to split them up. If he is EA he will likely be keen to isolate her from you and the family, and use evidence of your disliking him as a way to do that. Are you close now?

I would read the Lundy book (why does he do that?) yourself as it does have lots of advice and helps you understand the condition more. The main thing would be to keep or channels of communication open with you, build up her self esteem so she knows she can do better, encourage her to keep up with and see friends of her own age again so she is not isolated.

That is all I can think for now. I'm sure others will be here with more advice. I've had a long day

So onto me. Some good points and some not so good.

Lets start positive:

Good

1. Went to the solicitor. Took my Mum. The sol was great. Very kind but confident. Told me exactly what I needed to know. Put my mind at rest about the biggest issues and threats that FW had said to me (he's talking out of his bottom , surprise surprise) . We went through the whole divorce process, what to expect etc and it seems do-able. She actually said that I'd be best telling him by email and then going as this means there is written evidence of the communication rather than 'he said, she said' or even 'she never said'. She ended by looking me in the eye and said 'You need to get out. if not for you but for your daughter. You may be taking her away from her father but you're also giving her the gift of the chance of a normal relationship in the future'

1. Went to the estate agents and now have a 6 month let on my very own house!!!!!!!

1. Moved in pretty much all the furniture I will need as my parents are lending it to me. Put up some pictures and photos.

1. Met the landlord who lives nearby and seemed nice and also a very chatty (poss a bit too chatty!!!) neighbour who said it was lovely that someone was moving in.

1. The house (although minus a few fairly nec things such as fridge and slightly less nec eg washing machine and telly) could be rushed to without notice.

Bad

1. Didn't have the guts to move anything from our house which he will miss and therefore alert him to the fact that I am leaving. I could have taken everything and sent the email now but I couldn't do it today. Feel really about that. Nearly decided not to come on here and not admit it but then thought whats the point in that as I need the support to actually do it.

1. Most worrying thing in a way was I sat on the sofa with my Mum once we'd made the beds up and hung the pictures and thought 'this doesn't feel like home'. It's too quiet (although no TV or radio yet). Doesn't feel like mine. I suppose things like DDs toys lying around, the dog at my feet, mugs on the side will make it more homely. But I could have stood there and wept. Now I'm sat in silence in our home and it does not feel too quiet although there is no noise. Does that sound crazy??

Anyway as my lovely Mum says. It's there and ready to go. I can call them anytime and they'll rush over to move my clothes, the telly and fridge etc. At least I've got it. Maybe it just needs to sink in. I remember feeling flat after arranging my PT hours and now I wouldn't change that for the earth. It's the best decision I ever made.

Thanks so much for everyones support. One day (soon) I'll be here with the party poppers saying I'm out.... but sadly not today :(