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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

is this fair?

251 replies

wallaby65 · 12/06/2013 18:02

I need some advice. I have a male friend. we are both in our mid 40s. he has DCs (15 & 12yr) and a very unhappy marriage (Before you start telling me I am naive, I am sure this is the truth rather than some "my wife dont not understand me" BS btw). his wife has threathened divorce numerous times and is nasty and bullying woman. she has made usual "the script" threats about taking children and the home, money etc etc. hes been trying to stick it out for the kids but their marriage is dead in the water ...
anyway we have know each other c 3 or 4 years and over last 1 or 2 years become very close friends. we just have coffee in the mornings or take his dog for a walk but we enjoy each others company and just like to laugh and have fun together in a simple way. hes a wonderful kind person and we know each other well now.
also I have been alone for 8 years (once widowed and once divorced) and the more I hear about his home life the more I cant help but think that she just does not deserve him and he deserves much much better ie a woman who loves him and gives him respect and kindness and in fact just a chance to be happy.
we have not discussed more than friendship but I know he would leave her for me if I asked as I can tell how much he loves me too.
shes again told him his week she wants to divorce and has secretly booked a holiday for two weeks to "consider her options".
should I made my feeling known to him and ask him to tell his wife he also wants to divorce when she returns so we can be together?

OP posts:
hollyisalovelyname · 13/06/2013 09:11

I agree with Bogey and Futter.

cjel · 13/06/2013 10:36

Garlic, yyy to all you say. I have such personal experience of this . they really can delude themselves can't they. My ex 'couldn't talk' to me, but our business was failing and i knew the situation, she didn't so has listened to his fantasies of having am multi million pound business within a year (2yrs on its nearly bankrupt) he' deserved to be happy and it had been hard for him living with me and my depressions'! the rape, bullying and strangling, financial abuse had nothing to do with my breakdowns. OW thinks i am a nightmare. I just left and she will learn!!!

IUsedtobeMe · 13/06/2013 11:17

OP - Have you changed details such as number of kids and who's dog it is you walk?

simplesusan · 13/06/2013 17:29

Excellent post garlic.

LessMissAbs · 13/06/2013 18:10

You do realise OP that the man who is in court today charged with abducting his 15 year old pupil at school, is on record as having told the girl that his wife was violent towards him, abusive, etc..

Yet the evidence shows that he had had numerous affairs, the wife was a perfectly reasonable person and he was the one who ran off to France with a 15 year old girl due to sit exams.

This is not an unknown pattern of behaviour by cheating men.

Original poster
wallaby65 · 13/06/2013 18:20

well thanks for all your advise and comments overnight. sorry to hear all about morris's mum! and bit bemused as to the too-much-daily-mail readers suggesting self-inflicted bruises as part of my seduction and that I walk dogs but don't know who they belong to ...
Anyway there seems to be two schools of thought: the "black and white" vulture/ martyr wifey / hes having an EA and shes trying to communicate with him (Not sure how this is compatible with her refusal to go to Relate last year or violence...). But have to reject all this as either seems to be MNers projecting own relationship failures or the smug married: a minority of whom seem to be set to bully rather than persuade (CP well done for holding your own!) ...
and that leaves the more grey viewpoint which is basically he / situation sounds like trouble and at best wait it out and see. Well that has more credibility and I will think it through.
Will let you know what happens!

OP posts:
Original poster
wallaby65 · 13/06/2013 18:24

ps if a woman alleged DV, would your immediate response be to call her a liar??? but that's ok if its a man??? umm..........

OP posts:
Original poster
wallaby65 · 13/06/2013 18:25

or is it just if a man is "cheating" violent assault is justified?

OP posts:
garlicgrump · 13/06/2013 18:33

If someone I knew to be a liar, capable of misleading others for their own purposes, alleged violence in a situation where they hoped to gain sympathy, I'd consider doubting them. Irrespective of their sex.

LessMissAbs · 13/06/2013 18:39

But have to reject all this as either seems to be MNers projecting own relationship failures or the smug married: a minority of whom seem to be set to bully rather than persuade (CP well done for holding your own!

Well in my case its because I've had to fend off several married/attached men over the years who conveniently keep silent about the existence of a woman in their life until they have you hooked. Except I have an aversion to sleazy men, and I never am stupid enough to get hooked. Then the girlfriend/wife tends to make a miraculous appearance.

The type that complains the other party in the relationship abuses them, hence they need to have an affair (emotional or otherwise) is a special type. One wonders why they do not just leave such a relationship, but invariably they stay for financial reasons (usually "abuse" too) or the kids.

Its all just attention seeking. Trouble might follow some people around but generally not in the manner you have described. I have to say you sound completely under this man's control OP.

AgathaF · 13/06/2013 18:45

You say he is trying to stick it out for the kids. Why is that? Does he feel that staying in an allegedly volatile relationship with a "nasty and bullying" wife is a good environement for the children to thrive?

AnyFucker · 13/06/2013 19:02

You are going to let us know how it goes
you say?

Nah thanks, don't put yourself to any trouble

CatherineofMumbles · 13/06/2013 19:07

Agree with AF - no axe to grind, but seems a pretty simple rule to follow - do not date married or co-habiting men...

CatherineofMumbles · 13/06/2013 19:08

And if he is 'staying for the kids' Hmm good for him, let him!

simplesusan · 13/06/2013 20:12

How do you know he is trelling the truth. Have you heard it from her side? And if you have spoken to her in detail then you should clearly stay away as she thinks of you as a friend.

Bogeyface · 13/06/2013 20:23

Anyway there seems to be two schools of thought: the "black and white" vulture/ martyr wifey / hes having an EA and shes trying to communicate with him (Not sure how this is compatible with her refusal to go to Relate last year or violence...). But have to reject all this as either seems to be MNers projecting own relationship failures or the smug married

Of course you have to reject it because that would mean that you are either being played for a fool or you are the predator mentioned last night. Whether he is being abused or not has no relevance. Your plan is to persuade a man who until now has shown no indication of leaving, to dump his wife and kids for you. The fact that you can square this in your head frankly disgusts me.

Either you are a friend to him, in which case listen, support and be there for him no matter what choice he makes. Or you are romantically interested in him in which back the hell off and wait until he is free to be with you. Anything else IS an emotional affair, no matter how you try to persuade yourself differently.

Ask yourself this, if it isnt an affair, why doesnt his wife know about your friendship and feelings for each other?

Heartbrokenmum73 · 13/06/2013 21:02

OP, what you DO notice on here about anyone talking about being in an abusive relationship is that that's ALL they talk about. There's never any mention of affairs outside their relationship because they're usually just coping with the shitty relationship they're currently.

I'm very lucky in that I've never been in an abusive relationship, but I can imagine it's bloody scary (and I know that's an understatement) and that it takes everything out of you. Don't know that I'd be thinking 'right, better line someone else up for when I walk away from this'. Generally, I would think it would be day to day, trying to get through and thinking about how to live.

And, again, you're taking HIS word for all of this - she refused to go to Relate, says he. She's violent, says he.

Heartbrokenmum73 · 13/06/2013 21:03

Ask yourself this, if it isnt an affair, why doesnt his wife know about your friendship and feelings for each other?

This. Isn't this one of the key indicators of whether something is an affair or not? If it's just a 'friendship' why the secrecy?

fortyplus · 13/06/2013 21:32

Anyone who has ever mentioned problems with their marriage to me (whether male or female) has always said 'Of course I understand you're only hearing my side of the story'. I've always felt that they were telling me about it because in their heart they wanted to make things better. Does he do that? If he genuinely wanted relationship advice from a trusted friend then I wouldn't have a problem with it. OP you need to take a step back from this while he sorts himself out. If he leaves and sets himself up in a single situation then that's the time to mention that you have feelings for him and would like to be more than just friends. I don't think your conscience would ever be clear if you felt that you'd tipped him over the edge to leave his wife.

Bogeyface · 13/06/2013 21:37

I don't think your conscience would ever be clear if you felt that you'd tipped him over the edge to leave his wife.

Forty I agree with everything you said, expect ^^^^ that. Sadly I dont think the OP has any major conscience issues, if she did she wouldnt be considering this course of action and then getting stroppy when people tell her is the wrong thing to do.

Bogeyface · 13/06/2013 21:41

except.....highlight fail....Hmm

fortyplus · 13/06/2013 22:02

Hmmm... maybe reword it to 'You'd have to live with the guilt forever if you felt that you'd tipped him over the edge to leave his wife.'

AnyFucker · 13/06/2013 22:27

what bogey said

Op appears to think she is blame free and this thread hasn't changed that delusion one jot

Bogeyface · 13/06/2013 22:31

Tbh Forty I dont think rewording it would make any difference. She doesnt feel guilty suggesting he has a nice new life awaiting him if he leaves his wife and children. So why would she feel guilty if he did and she has got what she wants?

I think the only time she would have any regret at all would be if he did leave and then cheat on her too.

MisguidedAngel · 14/06/2013 08:10

I don't know whether this will be helpful, just an account from a slightly different angle. My OH was a "serial rescuer". He was attracted to women who had been physically/emotionally abused and had left or been left by their abusive partners. He picked them up, was a shoulder to cry on, boosted their confidence and self-esteem - and then they moved on, grateful for his help. He was in effect a 'transitional object' for these women.

When we met I had been divorced after 27 years (he left me) and then had a five year relationship with my own transitional object - a lovely younger man who had long had a crush on me and helped me feel attractive and sexy again. I left him, but we both knew the relationship had run its course. Then I met OH. He went into automatic, assuming I needed rescuing. It took me a while to disabuse him of this perception - done that, been there, using the t-shirt as a floor cloth. Once he started treating me as an equal, the relationship took off and we've been together now for 15 years.

OP, you could end up being this man's transitional object, helping him recover from EA, then he will, gratefully, move on. Don't do it.