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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

is this fair?

251 replies

wallaby65 · 12/06/2013 18:02

I need some advice. I have a male friend. we are both in our mid 40s. he has DCs (15 & 12yr) and a very unhappy marriage (Before you start telling me I am naive, I am sure this is the truth rather than some "my wife dont not understand me" BS btw). his wife has threathened divorce numerous times and is nasty and bullying woman. she has made usual "the script" threats about taking children and the home, money etc etc. hes been trying to stick it out for the kids but their marriage is dead in the water ...
anyway we have know each other c 3 or 4 years and over last 1 or 2 years become very close friends. we just have coffee in the mornings or take his dog for a walk but we enjoy each others company and just like to laugh and have fun together in a simple way. hes a wonderful kind person and we know each other well now.
also I have been alone for 8 years (once widowed and once divorced) and the more I hear about his home life the more I cant help but think that she just does not deserve him and he deserves much much better ie a woman who loves him and gives him respect and kindness and in fact just a chance to be happy.
we have not discussed more than friendship but I know he would leave her for me if I asked as I can tell how much he loves me too.
shes again told him his week she wants to divorce and has secretly booked a holiday for two weeks to "consider her options".
should I made my feeling known to him and ask him to tell his wife he also wants to divorce when she returns so we can be together?

OP posts:
MorrisZapp · 13/06/2013 00:05

Ok, its my fault for mentioning my mother but I feel I can't win. Listen to all the husband stealing pish or give an example of relationships in the real world then have my adored mother criticised by a stranger.

I know you didn't say the b word, but its my mum, so I don't take the criticism kindly.

As for reading into it and the issue being mine, well that could explain many peoples motives on this odd thread. I guess OP isn't coming back anyway.

Bogeyface · 13/06/2013 00:05

You dont see "predatory" in the OP waving her lovely home and lifestyle at him like a lollipop when he is with his unhappy wife, whinging kids and mundane life?

I hate the word "seduction" but frankly it does fit here! And a man who could be so easily seduced (barf) is no prize!

MorrisZapp · 13/06/2013 00:07

'getting into my pants and getting me to scrub his'.

Here, that deserves a large flapjack.

clippedphoenix1 · 13/06/2013 00:07

Im saying that the OP has listened to this for a very long time and she is asking whether to push the situation or not. she may however have fancied him etc. for the same amount of time, so what? If he was happy in what he was in this would never have come about in the first place.

Selba · 13/06/2013 00:08

He's my friend. As a rule I believe what my friends tell me. Funny that.

Selba · 13/06/2013 00:10

Thanks Morris. I'll accept a biscuit in liu of flapjack Biscuit

Bogeyface · 13/06/2013 00:11

MOrris I was simply trying to say that one act in a life can be very selfish and hurtful, I felt very much for your father when you described what happened. I have been your father, and for him to be able to have friendship with your mother and stepfather makes me admire him very much. I was not saying she is a bad person, a bad mother or a bitch, I really wasnt.

Of course we are bringing our own issues here. I am not at all forgiving of affairs because I have been the wife who had her life and family destroyed by one, so yes I do judge. Walk a mile in my shoes and you would too.

clippedphoenix1 · 13/06/2013 00:12

I dont believe everything my friends tell me either. People tell you what they want to either believe themselves or what they think you want to hear sometimes. Theyre still my friends though.

Futterby · 13/06/2013 00:13

To be honest, I think this is a pointless post because you'll do whatever you want regardless of what someone you don't know on a random internet forum thinks about it. I think you should stay well back but you know yourself what you want to do and more than likely you'll do it.

Bogeyface · 13/06/2013 00:14

Confused!

Selba are you the OP?

In answer to your question, yes I do believe he is spinning you a line, even if it is a line that he believes himself. Cheating spouses will often create situations in order to justify what they are doing. They will pick fights and then say "We fight ALL the time, so no wonder I want to be with X" or make unreasonable sexual demands which they know will be rebuffed in order to say that they cant live in a sexless relationship. Lies lies lies. Whether he knows they are lies or not is a whole other discussion.

clippedphoenix1 · 13/06/2013 00:14

Always remember in any situation you can never "make" anyone do anything therefore we are all responsibe for our own actions.

Bogeyface · 13/06/2013 00:16

One Q

Does he tell you that he can talk to you in a way he can never talk to his wife?

clippedphoenix1 · 13/06/2013 00:18

Yeah but he probably can.

I couldnt talk to my ex the same way i can talk to my current. thats a massive reason why im happier now.

MorrisZapp · 13/06/2013 00:18

Thanks bogey. Night all x

retrome · 13/06/2013 00:19

Bogeyface said: My feelings about married men who have any sort of affair are well known on MN but to clarify, I think they are lying cheating pieces of shit.

Surely, in fairness to the sexes ,she will have to apply this equally to women if they have any sort of affair?

Morris's mother had an affair. So what does that make her in Bogey's opinion?

Bogeyface · 13/06/2013 00:24

retome if you are goading me into further enflaming Morris then you are going to be disappointed.

I feel that anyone who involves themselves in an affair is selfish and a liar. However, the "piece of shit" was used to show my strength of feeling, not a literal description.

Bogeyface · 13/06/2013 00:27

CP of course he can because his wife doesnt understand him the way the OP does! Probably she understands him only too well.....

I am not saying that they shouldnt be together or that the OP shouldnt consider a relationship with him, but to use her relationship with him as leverage in order for him to end his marriage is very very wrong. If he left his wife tomorrow, of his own violition and with no expectations from the OP then no one would have any objection to them getting together. But that isnt whats happening here, that THAT is the issue.

clippedphoenix1 · 13/06/2013 00:30

therefore morris's mother was a selfish liar? wow bogeyface. Youve done that all on your own and why project onto another poster?

Bogeyface · 13/06/2013 00:32

Yes she was! She lied to her husband and had an affair, which by its very nature is selfish.

Am I missing something? Or did having an affair suddenly become the last word in altruism?

Bogeyface · 13/06/2013 00:34

I didnt project anything, I responded to Morris mentioning what her mother did. To those of us who have been where her father was all those years ago, it is incredibly offensive to suggest that we should all be happy for the affair couple simply because they are still blissful all those years later.

At no point did I say her mother was a bad person or a bitch. I said that she did a selfish thing, once. And affairs involves lies, so ........

clippedphoenix1 · 13/06/2013 00:35

Bogeyface i think you are a very moral person, but life is not that cut and dried sometimes, it really isnt. Having those views is also rather blinkered and unrealistic, dare i say non charitable as people do things that given the same circumstances you may do....

Bogeyface · 13/06/2013 00:44

Thats made me smile CP, because believe me I do know about grey! I am very moral,but there are things you just dont do. It took me being on the very very edge of an affair myself before I realised that. So yes, I do know how easy it is and how hard it is to step back. But thats the point, you can step back. People who choose not to step back do the easy thing, not the right thing and they must accept that they will be judged by others.

Futterby · 13/06/2013 01:03

An affair is wrong Hmm why are people not getting this? Anyone, male or female, who takes part in an affair is just disgusting if you ask me.

jessjessjess · 13/06/2013 01:10

I haven't read all the posts. I just wondered why the OP is so sure a) he will leave his wife for you - how can you just know that, are you telepathic? - and b) he's not full of shit,

My ex told his bit on the side and umpteen other people, including all of our mutual friends, that I was treating him terribly.

In actual fact he was emotionally and financially abusing me, along with sexual violence. He left me with £3000 of debt he ran up in my name, shattered self-confidence, and PTSD.

There are two sides to every story.

garlicgrump · 13/06/2013 01:45

Wallaby, you read threads on here, yes? I'm sure you've heard the pain of Mumsnetters realising their husbands are having emotional affairs. They suffer the particularly sharp loneliness of living with, and sleeping with, a partner whose thoughts and feelings are elsewhere. They're confused because, when they beg their partner to tell them what's wrong - does he want to end the marriage? - he says No, I love you and the kids and this is my home. I will never leave you. While saying this, he's still checking out emotionally every so often, stealing time and energy from the family he swears he loves. No wonder she's confused. He gets ratty with her: criticisms that make no sense except as comparisons with some other woman. Perhaps he's distancing from the kids, blowing hot and cold; leaving them needy.

She pours it all out on here, and we say Yes, it's hard to face but he is having an emotional affair. It's like a crush, he thinks she understands him like no other. You must feel bereft. I feel confused, she replies, he swears he loves me! We still have sex! But he's not altogether 'here' :(

We advise her, don't we, to take some time away from him. We say it will help to clear her mind.

It's likely he will tell his other woman that his wife's taking a "secret holiday" preparatory to divorce. He would say that, wouldn't he? It feels good, for him, to have OW's sympathy poured over him like honey. It's far easier than making an effort to engage in the talks his wife has anxiously requested. OW is flattering, undemanding, easy - and he is lazy.

That's you, that is: flattering, undemanding and easy. His wife's going away for some head space, because her husband is selfish and emotionally lazy. She's stopped being "easy", so he turns to you.

If you're okay with being the easy option, go for it. Frankly I think you may as well have sex with him; it won't make much difference to the other relationship now. And you'd better be prepared to be undemanding, easy, and so on for the duration of your time with him. Because you know what he's like, don't you, now?