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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Support for those in Emotionally Abusive relationships:22

999 replies

foolonthehill · 23/05/2013 18:05

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
a check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violenceAre you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

what couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
should I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

OP posts:
AliceDoesntLiveHereAnymore · 05/06/2013 06:42

Is EH happy? I don't know. He certainly seems happier than he was with us. I'm not sure if that's an accurate assessment, though, as (like the general public previously) I'm only seeing the "public persona" for the most part now. I think he probably isn't any happier now, mainly because I've noticed when I took the dcs for a visit (and it was just us), he fairly quickly began to slide right back into the old behaviour patterns. Or does that mean he's just not happy around us? Confused LOL It's a "which came first, the chicken or the egg" situation, isn't it?

I admit I haven't spent much time worrying about whether or not EH is happy. I focus more on whether or not the dcs are happy and on feeling happy myself.

heghog · 05/06/2013 10:14

My x will be his version of happy at the moment. he is luvved up with the new gf. she will of course be brilliant. he will be telling her how relieved he is to be with her and away from me and all the awful stress and nagging and constant demands and about all the wonderful things he will be able to do once he has sorted out his house/life/money which of course he could not do because of me dragging him down all these years.Hmm and how he gave me children and i am not grateful and nothing he ever did was enough.

right now he will be in the rewriting history and promising the moon phase and it will all be such great fun. and he has got someone to help him with the kids so he can live up to his self image of being a great dad.

By now he has probably convinced himself he was the one who left me. because I made him miserable (a common complaint when we were together- i was making his life a misery- and yet even during all the things he did I never accused him of that- my life, my responsibility to make it happy or otherwise).

he will be so pleased to finally be free and with someone he deserves.

(this all make me quite Angry but I need to let go as there is nothing I can do about it other than think FW Hmm)

it is funny reading the Lundy book though because I had my lightbulb moment before i kicked him out when i suddenly realised this is not about what he does or why he does it- this is about how he thinks and who he thinks I am (and by extension all women)

although in the Lundy diagram- big circle for Men, smaller for women, tiny for kids. I think his is big circle entitled ME tiny circle with everyone else written in it. he does not particularly respect other men either.

and that being the case his happiness won't last. new gf will make the 'mistake' of organising a holiday or Christmas will roll around and the real FW will crawl out from under his cloak.

lemon on another thread suggested that people behave differently with different partners. I do think some people bring out the worst in you (and I certainly don't like the way I have become, mostly Angry) and maybe he will be happy with someone else but surely that cannot be true. because if that is true then it means it was my fault and somehow it is because I am me that he abused me. I prefer to believe he just is abusive and will eventually do it to everybody because it has worked in the past and the only thing that will make a difference is how long any individual gf will put up with it which is probably down to their personalty and previous life experience.

his very abusive dad eventually after strings of women ended up on his own. and I think he may have realised that he had brought it on himself.

and I have realised you should not put up with this kind of thing (although of course i put up with it because I initially thought I caused at least half of it- i did not leave because of his abuse because I failed to realise that that is what it was. i wonder if my PND counsellor knew- if she did I wish she had spelled it out to me)

sorry long post. lots of mulling.

NiniLegsInTheAir · 05/06/2013 10:31

Can I have a hug please? I'm so tired. Sad

TheSilveryPussycat · 05/06/2013 10:42

heghog it isn't really a question of blame, exactly. For many of us, early experiences have made us eager to please, quick to accept faults as our own, and therefore vulnerable. This is where the interaction with partner comes into it. Because we are not vulnerable to nice men!! We are (or have been) vulnerable to FWs and FWittery.

Hi nini hugs and a nice Brew. Sit ye down, rest ye.

CharlotteCollinsismovingon · 05/06/2013 11:28

Hey Nini, been thinking of you. ((hugs)) and a Brew.

heghog · 05/06/2013 11:28

((nini))
It does get tiringSad
anything in particular up or just the relentlessness of it all?

ColinCaterpillar · 05/06/2013 11:36

Heghog you've saved me the bother of typing my own story...

My x will be his version of happy at the moment. he is luvved up with the new gf. she will of course be brilliant. he will be telling her how relieved he is to be with her and away from me and all the awful stress and nagging and constant demands and about all the wonderful things he will be able to do once he has sorted out his house/life/money which of course he could not do because of me dragging him down all these years...i am not grateful and nothing he ever did was enough All I can add there is that I thought the worst of him, he can get a job without me dragging him down and I'm obviously shagging his mate anyway.

right now he will be in the rewriting history and promising the moon phase and it will all be such great fun

By now he has probably convinced himself he was the one who left me. because I made him miserable (a common complaint when we were together- i was making his life a misery- and yet even during all the things he did I never accused him of that- my life, my responsibility to make it happy or otherwise) - not that I caught him with his OW and that he left me for her because he was caught. His emails definitely state that he is the injured party

he will be so pleased to finally be free and with someone he deserves Yes, he has REAL love now

(this all make me quite Angrybut I need to let go as there is nothing I can do about it other than think FW)

and that being the case his happiness won't last. new gf will make the 'mistake' of organising a holiday or Christmas will roll around and the real FW will crawl out from under his cloak I can't see this happening even though he abuses everyone, I am convinced that I did
bring out the worst in him and he definitely brought out the worst in me but I am convinced he will be happy with someone else - I too I prefer to believe he just is abusive and will eventually do it to everybody and it hingest on whether she puts up with it or not.

his very abusive dad eventually after strings of women ended up on his own FWs dad is on Thai bride number 2. I can see FW ending up like that in the future.

I've had a crappy few days - back to being completely fed up and willing FWs return but am savouring the moments when I see a bit of light - like when my nephew smiles at me or when one of my lovely friends calls me. FW doesn't have a nice family and FW doesn't have nice telephone conversations with nice friends. So ner.

Hugs to you nini

sweetpea I think you are right. I thought he was weird at first, then read on here about narcs, then my counsellor handed me a list of 'mr nice' and the other (is it a Freedom programme resource? I forget) and I made the jump to emotional abuse with the help of a friend who had been trying to get me to see it, but without MN I don't think I would have seen it.

heghog · 05/06/2013 11:42

silvery I think that is true but I think if FW found someone who was not eager to please, he would either move on and find someone easier to bend or else she would tell him to hit the road.

what I don't think would happen is that he would find someone who would refuse to meet what he sees as his needs and who would stand up for herself and think oh well I will just have to stop being an abusive twunt and learn to behave.

I really believe he won't change no matter who is with.
his life has taught him if you don't get what you want you can move on. he has never had any trouble getting gfs or in finding OW. he has never been single for more than a few months and has often had several women on the go at one time.

why change what works?

the only thing he has changed is that he swears he would never marry again as he knows if you fuck up your marriage there are consequences.

honey86 · 05/06/2013 11:47

heghog you wrote that in the most exquisite way Grin that is my ex in a nutshell, an excellent and precise and very real discription of the things he does Smile i dont even think i could say it better myself!

FWittery at its finest right there xx

heghog · 05/06/2013 12:19

FWIW I think my x does suffer quite a lot of cognitive dissonance because the way he behaves is at odds with what he professes and because of the constant uncertainty in his personal rs makes him stressed (he thinks women are unreliable and he is unfaithful because he is never sure when the current gf is going to bin him off for her own completely irrational and infuriating reasons Hmm he can come and go as he pleases but it is completely unfair of his partner to think that she can)

he has yet to work out that he is the common factor in all these relationship breakdowns.

and he has yet to meet his holy grail which is a woman who will put up uncomplainingly with any shit he chooses to throw at her, who will expect nothing from him in return and who enjoys being shouted at just because he feels like shouting....
and even if he did I suspect it would not be enough. I suspect he would be unable to respect someone like that and would find someone 'better'.
he is classic demand man and as such his demands cannot be met.

ColinCaterpillar · 05/06/2013 12:22

he has yet to work out that he is the common factor in all these relationship breakdowns

YES this completely. I have pointed this out before, it was not well received.

verygentlydoesit · 05/06/2013 13:06

Hi all, I have to be quick as I'm at work......

I've just had an email to say my Lundy book has arrived. I can't wait to get stuck in this evening. I really really hope it backs up my feelings that P is selfish bordering on abusive at the the very least.

He is back tomorrow, I woke up feeling anxious for the first time in days. I think it was because I'm dreading having to rub along under the same roof until he finds somewhere to go. At least he's away for a few days next monday.

I'll post properly later, was just so excited that my book is here that I had to post.

heghog · 05/06/2013 13:30

FW favourite question was - why don't you go and shout at your friends?

why would I? they were not shouting at me.

he never seemed to notice that i don't argue with other people. to the point I am known for it. I have opinions and will debate but i don't fall out.

in fact when i first met FW he did remark 'god, do you ever get angry about anything?'

whereas he falls out with people on an alarmingly regular basis. and the solution to this 1) blame your gf 2) take it out on your gf

I must give him a giant mirror for father's day.

heghog · 05/06/2013 13:36

very enjoy. if that is the right word.
it is helpful book though.

but in some ways it makes me sad. because it makes me think right FW now I understand you a lot better. if only I could make you understand yourself a bit better you would not be such a total and utter FW.

I know. futile.

I just wish that both I and he value myself highly enough that losing me would be a proper comeuppance for him. but it isn't because after the first couple of weeks where he painted himself as a victim he will now be thinking he is actually better off.

I need to really work on reminding myself that i did not do it because it was what he deserved but because living a life free from him is what I deserve.

he will never be punished but at least I am not being punished on a regular basis for not doing what he wants.

(although as the punishment was usually the withdrawal of childcare in order to prevent me leaving the house in another way I am being punished all the timeSad)

aorry i will stop rambling on now, i am filling up the whole thread with my moaning. he is gone already. onwards and upwards.

CharlotteCollinsismovingon · 05/06/2013 13:38

:o very - that is exciting. Take a pencil and underline bits that seem relevant as you go along... I think you will find he is firmly in the abusive camp, nowhere near the borders!

I'm expecting that FW will hook up with another woman fairly quickly as he's rarely been single since he was about 13, and sometimes had two on the go at once (oh, like me and previous gf for example, although I didn't realise at the time). Hard to imagine, though, with his current boaky declarations of love!

CharlotteCollinsismovingon · 05/06/2013 13:44

yy to the futility of making him see who he is. FW found a book about narcs on my kindle during the holiday where we got back together (weird snooping fw) and said he thought it was a crazy book and nothing like him. Hmm I thought it described him very clearly!

:( heg about ongoing punishment. They won't be young for long. Before you know it they'll be off on sleepovers and school trips and the like and evenings will gradually become less like prison sentences.

NiniLegsInTheAir · 05/06/2013 13:54

Just a small word of advice very - you might want to read Lundy in chunks. I found it was much like being hit with a succession of bombs, one after the other, and too much to read a large amount in one go. Even now I only dip in and out of it (I've had the book a year and still havn't read it all!).

Having a tough month so far and it will only get tougher. My next exam is at the beginning of July so I'm stressed out up to my eyeballs with that. I'm also stressing about Father's Day - not sure if anyone remembers but I had nothing except a card on Mother's Day (DD too little to buy anything herself) so in a fit of pettiness I only got him a card for his birthday the week after. He was very upset and has told all and sundry about it, and pretty much everyone has agreed with him and told me birthdays are more important than parents' days. He then bought me a tub of sweets that I don't like for my birthday so now I'm in a total quandry about what to get him. He's been giving demands for expensive things he wants.

Also, saturday after next is evil FIL's godawful hellish birthday party where I'm going to have to meet FW's estranged sister for the first time - I have to go, I'm stressed about meeting her, I'm stressed about how FW is going to react (probably abandon me so I have to deal with pressure from both her and FIL about why FW won't see his mother who I have also never met), and I'm stressed about exposing DD to it. I've already told FW I don't want to go and he completely threw a fit and threatened to take DD anyway, and I need to protect her.

I'm still hurt that FW deceived me about taking FIL to a show for his birthday which clashes with our wedding anniversary - I'm not allowed to be angry that he deliberately didn't tell me. He says we'll 'do something' the weekend after as that's what we did last year the reason for that, which he has conveniently forgotten is because he'd just fucking hit me this time last year. And I'm hurt that he's laid out all these elaborate things for FIL's birthday when he doesn't give a toss about me.

And I just redecorated the dining room all by myself, he didn't even lift a finger. He even had the nerve to tell me I was 'overdoing it' as he opened his next can of beer and got comfortable on the sofa.

I hate him so much, and I'm so tired.

CharlotteCollinsismovingon · 05/06/2013 14:02

I really don't like your FW, Nini. Angry on your behalf. Give him the tub of sweets, and who cares what anyone else thinks. It can be beautifully wrapped by dd with your help, and she can present it to him if she wants, with a homemade card if she likes that sort of thing. Thoughtful, really from dd, something he's bound to like (otherwise why did he buy it for you? Hmm) and, best of all, almost free.

NiniLegsInTheAir · 05/06/2013 14:24

Hey Charlotte. Unfortunately I've chucked the sweets away - not expecting anyone to remember this bit but after he hit me last year he 'apologised' by buying me a bag of jelly babies (his favourite sweets that I hate) and this tub of birthday sweets was also jelly babies. Couldn't even look at them it brought too much back.

I'm just worn out and can't figure out why I won't accept that as a relationship this is totally dead. Sad

Hope you're doing ok btw Thanks

heghog · 05/06/2013 14:34

nini my plan for father's day is to give the x a lovely picture of his children. what could be more apt for fathers day. it is to remind him what it is actually all about Grin

I feel your pain re. exams i feel constant pressure to be doing something just now and cannot wait until it stops.

I am even thinking, that once I have exams out of the way and I have splashed some paint around the living room, i may even ask one of the school mums round for a bottle of wine. she seems like a right laugh and at the worst she will just have other plans.

in the meantime nini Thanks and if you have the opportunity buy yourself some real flowers in lieu of the mothers day present you never got.

NiniLegsInTheAir · 05/06/2013 14:39

A bottle of wine with a friend sounds lovely heghog, I feel your pain about being stuck at home, even without the studies I have nobody to go out with. Hope you enjoy it Smile

I've decided while I'm all alone (with DD of course) on our wedding anniversary I'm going to treat myself to a rare takeaway. Whatever I feel like having for a change!

thatsnotmynamereally · 05/06/2013 14:42

Nini I think Charlotte's got a great idea there-- something small from DD, personalized with a card etc 'helped' by her, after all it is the thought that counts. Unless of course he would think he deserved a better present (for father's day??) and show his displeasure to DD! FFS. If he wants a particular gift can he not buy it for himself? That's what I always do!

H has gone away to visit his parents, for 2 nights, he took DS with him who is home from uni for the summer. It took 2 hours to get him out of the house, he kept thinking of more things I needed to pack for him, and quizzing me on what I'd packed, I questioned whether he really needed to take towels and he got very stressed and told me to shut up and behave myself, wandered around saying 'why does she never do what I say...' I think he is in some stage of losing his mind.

I packed some clothes for DS but when he came downstairs he'd already packed his own bag, seemed utterly surprised that I would even consider packing for him! I am so pleased that he is so NORMAL (and such a lovely boy) but I'm sure having a FW for a father has affected him. All my fault of course Sad for.. not standing up to FW? I just wonder, I suppose I should have left him years ago but until I found this site/read Lundy B/etc I honestly had no idea that it was his problem not mine... DD and I are going to look at a flat this afternoon, it's too early for me to make offers on property but we're just going to get the feel of the place, to see if 'we' could see ourselves living there, I'll be ready when H decides it's time to sell our house. DD had her first (of 6) A2 exams yesterday and by all accounts it was really tough... calmness must prevail!

thatsnotmynamereally · 05/06/2013 14:50

Nini Shock jelly babies?? really?? how utterly awful, thoughtless in the extreme!

and Flowers for you, and Flowers for you too Heg BEST of luck with all your exams!

heghog · 05/06/2013 15:04

nini it is worse than thoughtless actually. I suspect he may have consciously or unconsciously bought jelly babies to show you that a) what he likes is more important than what you like and b) to remind you if you step out of line he can hit you.

sorry if that is an unpleasant thought but going on my interpretation of Lundy they do these things on purpose. they don't forget they have hit you they just want you to not talk about it and they think itis a trivial as a packet of sweeties.

and it is the perfect gift ambush because what kind of person complain about a gift. right. Hmm

(well actually my FW did about pretty much everything i ever bought him. and I watched him pick up a pile of birthday present from his dcs and got through them saying shit, shit, shit one after another as he dropped them on the floor. when I pulled him up on it he said they didn't buy them anyway, she did (their mum) presents was one of the most stressful things about being with him. him buying me presents was also extremely stressful)

hence the suggestion of a nice photo. only a total FW could complain about a photo of his dc. no? my theory on parent day presents is you get in proportion to what you do.

NiniLegsInTheAir · 05/06/2013 15:11

You're right about it being gift ambush, heghog, he did the same with my xmas present.

Photo in a frame sounds like a good idea actually - I have a small old frame lying around. At least it will be a cheap present too Wink.

Hope you have a nice FW-free two days thatsnot Smile

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