Support for those in Emotionally Abusive relationships:22

[foolonthehill]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
a check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violenceAre you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

what couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
should I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

By the way, the expression greasy bloater is right up there with boaky tongues.

In being eeewww, i mean

bit sad he could not have just kept on making an effort

It is, isn't it? FW here doesn't seem able to shake the feeling that I am being unfair, cos I didn't tell him there was a "deadline" to be met. ie make an effort or you might not have a marriage one day. I have said more than once it'd be a pretty poor marriage if I had to threaten separation in order to be listened to.

Glad things still going well, Silvery. Think that's probably important, to be happy being by yourself first.

eeeeeeeewwww - and put "greasy bloater" and "boaky tongues" together as I just did.

FW is a miserable sod whichever way you look at it. Having the job of his dreams didn't make him happy. Having a wife who loved him and his daughters, and a lovely step-son, didn't make him happy. Having a nice house and a nice life didn't make him happy. Nothing ever will.

Another one echoing this line. It summarises my FW far better than I ever could (minus the lovely step-son)

My nsdh always looks miserable and grumpy yet always says he is happy. I don't know what that's about. He was really surprised when he saw himself in a photograph and looked like a miserable git. I think he thinks he skips about like a veritable little sunbeam.

bounty exactly. We can't change them, and they obviously are not interested in changing themselves. So we need to focus on doing what is best for us (and our dcs).

I allowed myself a short amount of time to vent today, and then put it aside to focus on myself and dcs. It helped. I refuse to spend all my time focusing on EH, when I spent the last number of years doing just that - to avoid setting him off or the dcs setting him off or just trying to put out fires. I used to try to figure out why he behaved that way. Now I find myself not caring why, because the why doesn't really matter. What matters is that he did not feel we were important enough to change it. I'm holding on to that, and reminding when I find myself pondering it that I'll probably never know and it's pointless to dwell on it.

I have a few things to take care of, however, I am trying to prioritise them and pace myself.

Thoughts to those still planning - it was a terrifying step, but oh so worth it! Hang in there!

I think that is it, Alice, the not being important enough to change for. But then, it is also true, I think, that people fundamentally do not change. But really glad you are sounding so positive

... and forgot to mention DS2 in my list of things that should make FW happy but didn't! I gave him the son he longed for, after two daughters. Still not enough. I think they are all the same, you could pour your whole self into trying to make them happy and it wouldn't actually work. It's exhausting. It's like that bloke from Greek mythology pushing that blasted rock up the hill every day, only for it to roll back to the bottom, every day, yet he still carries on trying to get it to the top.

sweetpea: I kind of see it a bit like a tide, where waves ebb and flow, but gradually the shore empties, it is almost imperceptible.
I almost said the same thing, but would not have said it so eloquently, so thank you! That's how I feel at the moment, I'm in a flow moment, and after the text I got on Thursday I realised that - how differently I would have felt and reacted before. I feel good at the moment. I feel more on top of things. I am grateful for that, because I've been out for over a year now, and am only just starting to feel like that.

charlotte I am still in awe of your FW's determination to stick his fingers in his ears and go 'lalalala', and not make any real acknowledgement of anything actually being wrong with him, even in the face of couples counselling.

Alice: the why doesn't really matter. What matters is that he did not feel we were important enough to change it. YYY!

winnie at FW thinking he is a ray of sushine.

charlotte re it would be poor marriage if you had to threaten separation everytime you wanted to be listened too.

but that is exactly what a FW would do when they feel their needs are not being met.

ex did it repeatedly until he started to find the door was smacking him on the arse on his way out.

Thinking about it it was not all miserable. after he went off in a huff 18months ago and I ignored him for a month things were so good for about 6 months we were actually thinking of moving in together. so I suppose i shall stop viewing it as 7 entirely wasted years and view it as an overcast period with frequent showers, brief sunny spells and occasional thunder storms.

current weather slightly overcast but settled. and the forecast will just have to wait.

Alice you sound resolute and very rational. true about trying to work out why being pointless.

Hi all, thank you for all your thoughts about my fears related to the post divorce thread last night. I'm going to hide the thread because this split appears to be out of my hands, all I can do us try to minimise the fall out on DS (and painful as it is to read, that thread has given me great advice as to how to do this).

bounty made the valid point that the thread probably attracted a disproportionate amount of people with negative experiences. sweet thank you for sharing your experience of your damaging 2 parent family, I'm so sorry that you had to live through that as a child, it is thought provoking to realise that dysfunctional families exist in many forms.

I should say that my own parents are divorced, happened when I was 4, I don't remember them being together. I don't think it damaged me, but it is hard to be sure. I do have some self esteem issues but I think they relate to my controlling, fragile, abusive mother who hit me when she lost control, and a step mother who hated me, more than from my parents divorce.

I have ordered Lundy's why does he do that but it has an ETA of 14th June so I have a while to wait. I am a bit worried that I can't really clearly 'see' P in the types of men in the Lundy link. I'm confident that he is selfish, and didn't show me anything like a reasonable amount of consideration, never mind love. But he doesn't seem to be as abusive as some, which I know is a good thing, but it makes me feel more worried that I overreacted to his behaviour, and less confident that I deserved better.

I bumped into a mutual friend today. She had seen P on Saturday, and she told me he had said that we were "over". I was oddly shocked and winded to hear that he had said that, I must have looked like a nutter, trying to act normally but crying on the inside. Silly really, he's said he's leaving, so I shouldn't have fallen apart when I heard what he had said.

P had left the house really messy for DS' and my return, I found some energy from somewhere last night and did loads of tidying, cleaning, washing, and little jobs that have needed doing for months. I think I wish he wasn't coming back on thurs, and that he had found somewhere to go already.

Babyseal I would really really appreciate anything you can tell me about telling your DS4. I will attempt to PM you as you suggested, thank you. I am sorry that you had a horrid weekend, I hope the week has been a bit better?

heghog you are right it's not at all fair. Oh to have a warm comforting man hug. I must be honest though and admit to myself that it is a very very long time since P held me in his arms in a 'making things better' way. It's not his style. Joining in with pony to send you a hug over the ether.

Hooray for silvery, hooray that you no longer need the thread. Top tips for detatching and mending gratefully received .

alice, I need to try to get to the place where you are where I am no longer trying to work out why P behaves in a certain way. That would save a lot of confusion on my part. You are so very right when you say that what matters is that he doesn't think I am important enough to change.

I have rambled on and on again, apologies. Wishing everyone a peaceful night.

sweetpea actually we have many great family days out just the 3 of us ( and always did) and others with a good friend of mine- no man hugs but lots of help and support. he is the kind of man i wish FW had been. he is not perfect but he is v good company.

that 'actually' was to remind me not to forget the good things without him btw and not to contradict what you had said sweetpea. you are quite right.
and life goes on often much as it did before as he was often absent.
I shall wait for the tide to go out again :-)

Sisyphus! That's who it was, Greek bloke with rock. (Thanks, Google!) Hence a Sisyphean task: Endlessly laborious or futile.
Yep, just about sums it up!

(Note: I mainly remember this Greek mythology story from the episode of the 80s cartoon Ulysses, whose theme tune is still imprinted on my brain: Ulysseeeeees, Ulyssee-eeees, Soaring through all the galaxieeeeeees... )

pony nooo! that is worse than the theme to kung fu dino posse.

right onwards and upwards. what doesn't kill you makes you thinner.

I remember that too Pony

verygently when I first read Lundy I could see H in it everywhere. Now he is in nice mode I'm struggling to see it and am questioning whether I overreacted. But if I read back my journal to remind myself exactly how he can be then I find he starts popping up again. Also some of Lundy has quite extreme cases of severe assault or murder which weren't relevant to me (thank God) but then there are plenty of sections where he says either not all men will act like this or areas of less extreme behaviour which are still abusive. The man who won't let his wife go into their baby (who is awake but in bed) because they had 'agreed' together on the bedtime and she was too late home always sends shivers down my spine. No violence, no shouting, not even any name calling, actually just a quiet conversation but still abusive.

sweetpea thank you for your words. It?s lovely that we all have eachother and understand eachother

Heghog lots of smiles at your mum?s zany sense of humour she sounds great! And her comment was very sage too. (Can you send her round my way ? having said that, my dm, since we?ve all grown up and she?s out of her own ea r/s is fantastic )

sweetpea yyyyy re not seeing fw spontaneously laugh or be fun or anything. He can let out a genuine albeit sideways smile at dcs? antics or sayings, but should I make a jokey remark, he either takes offence, ignores or requires lengthy explanations not a lot of fun, quite aside from the ea.

pony exactly. My fw came from quite a deprived start in his adult life and my family helped him with loads of stuff, we lived in MY flat, the house we have is because of MY business (though he works hard now, 15 years ago he was lying around the house while I provided the home ? cocklodger in short ? how I wish I?d had MN and you lot then [wistful])

babyseal thanks for your insights about telling dcs. I?m so sorry you've had a hard weekend.

Alice yay for a good day

heghog all the times he just assumed I would organise everything while he sat on his arse and sulked if we weren't ready OMG yyyyy Re the man thing and it being not fair (sympathetic and ) ? what is in our favour is that we are sane and are not fws. Thank God I am me not him, I say Re hugs ? very nice in theory but for the last 20 years they?ve just been a rare thing which have always, without any exception whatsoever, led to sex pestering, so I am cautious and actually am glad to be free of the contact (for now ? hopefully that will improve). I like hugs with kids and friends and cats and dogs though! Looking back, FW has never touched me except to request or demand sex or in anger. Fuck him, eh?

Silver just at your post, so lovely and I am so bloody glad for you!

charlotte as we are married to the same man, apparently shall we dump him together oh yyyy about having to reach rock bottom before they ?realise? the stupid fws.

bounty and tether - God yes, why are they all so fucking miserable. I remember saying to mine that he was simply too bloody difficult and life sapping ? he could not understand ? they have very poor self awareness skills ? ?skips about like veritable little sunbeam? ha ha!

Alice wise and hopeful words, thank you.

Pony I am very glad you are feeling good right now

heghog love the weather forecast ? exactly that for me too!

verygently hugs and for you, you sound like you?re making healthful progress.

pony at educamational effects of cartoons, ha ha, love it!

heg, that is the thing, we too have great family days out, me and dcs, and (at the risk of outing myself) it does not take a Herculean effort to be out the door and off enjoying ourselves at a reasonable time in the morning. Massive bone of content that family time was so precious and half of it was wasted with certain rituals. And there is no risk of super flouncing and day ruining because you happen to have waited outside on the wrong side of the cafe door. To give one example. Oh the stress.

Sisyphus. The boulder pushers. There is a rather fabulous book by Doris Lessing, I think, called The Golden Notebook where she talks about the boulder pushers. I forget the context. There was also the rather marvellous insight in there, that if you took the Biblical three score and ten as a measure of human life, and laid those lives end to end, you would need less than 30 people to get from Jesus to the end of the 20th century. Or something like that.

I will stop there, though I have developed this rather marvellous theory about FWs being slower to evolve socially, but I will spare you the details. I will sound quite mad, plus I have stuff still to do for tomorrow.

Bone of content? Contention.

sweetpea I like the sound of you evolution for fws theory

Do NOT encourage me, or I shall turn into the pub bore. Seriously, you only have to take two FW lifespans and lay them end to end to get back to the Victorian era, and look at the domestic abuse which went on there. Of course, generations are shorter, so change should happen quicker, but for one reason or another, FWs got stuck. That is my theory in a nutshell, I am working on the details.

I await your tome!

It might take a couple of years but I shall send you a copy

sweetpea your theory sounds good to me - the FW meme has been perpetuated by the very behaviour it endorses. It is only the 'environment' changing e.g. women supporting each other on MN, that will lead to it becoming a non-viable meme.

In other musings, I too was struck by this

FW is a miserable sod whichever way you look at it. Having the financial backing to do what he really wanted in life didn't make him happy (unless playing Civ for 10 years counts as being happy ). Having a wife who loved him and his two lovely children didn't make him happy. Having a nice house and a nice life (if a life not going anywhere much or doing anything much counts as nice) didn't make him happy. Nothing ever will. (I have no idea whether he is happy or not atm, mind you, maybe he is now, if so good luck to him)

[amended for my FW )