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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Support for those in Emotionally Abusive relationships:22

999 replies

foolonthehill · 23/05/2013 18:05

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
a check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violenceAre you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

what couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
should I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

OP posts:
AliceDoesntLiveHereAnymore · 02/06/2013 21:59

No. My family does not live in the area, and there are extenuating circumstances that I can't go into that would out me. It's really the only option. I think he is fine with it because when I'm there, he doesn't have to have complete responsibility for the dcs.

pegwin · 02/06/2013 22:29

*Colin' i feel for you re. internet dating. i am in very similar place.

maybe go out dancing? I would if I couldSmile
That way you don't have to make small talk if you and then find out there is nothing there when you meet. and if nothing happens at least you have had a night out/ dance.

ahhh I miss my days of pulling on the danceffloor.
FW convinced me I cannot dance.

ColinCaterpillar · 02/06/2013 22:55

I will be doing I think but I'm in one of those pity party never going to love again moods at the moment so I don't think I'll be radiating good vibes - so shan't be attracting anyone! Singledom and celibacy for me for a while at least which is a shame because a distraction helps keep me away from FW. The woman I spent the night with has blown very cold now too so that's not exactly filling me with confidence. I'll give the sites another week and if nothing comes up, I'll come off them - my heart just isn't in it. Anyway this really belongs on the dating thread and turning tavern thread! Whoops....

bountyicecream · 02/06/2013 22:59

notso another one pleased to hear that DD is home from hospital. Good luck with getting the medication into her. Sounds like trying to tablet a cat!

very It sounds like the right decision not to talk to DS yet. But I can understand the dread and wanting it to be over. Grrr at your FW for not phoning.

charlotte I really hope the DC don't have school tomorrow. They'll be exhausted.

alice hope things are looking better

colin you are brave dipping your toe in the internet dating pond. But good luck Wink

pegwin · 02/06/2013 23:01

Colin that is funny I used to find the more arsey my mood when I went out the more devastating I was Grin

I got chatted up at xmas whilst or dancing. and I was dancing badly cos the drunk i was i must have been.

i was finding opposite problem the dating was getting in the way of my distractions. Grin

feel much better now. since a walk round the pond

Funnyfishface · 02/06/2013 23:52

Hi ladies.

Trying to keep up. I do read your posts but don't always get chance to comment. Someone said we could all be married to the same guy. Reading through the thread there are elements of my h on every comment.

Alice - sorry you are having a frustrating time just now. Hand holding for you

Start - hi and welcome

Colin - I know a few friends that have tried Internet dating with great success. Just be sensible but go for it. Well done

Notso - unbelievable that h went through your personal things. How upsetting for you. My h goes through my phone and bag whenever he gets the opportunity. Glad your dd is on the mend. It is so stressful when the kids are ill.

Pony, peg, breath, very, bounty, sweet, lasing, hi to you all. Hope this week is better for you all.

My h is being very attentive. I'm on that rollercoaster ride again. He hasn't kicked off for a while. I actually want him to be nasty to me all the time because I'm waiting for it. Whilst he is being mr nice guy I feel guilty.
I'm hoping he is asleep now so I can go to bed!!

BreatheandFlyAway · 03/06/2013 00:10

Ah FFF waiting for the fw to start snoring so could go to bed safe - God I remember the grimness of that Sad. I watched every Friends episode in my late night avoidance rituals. I also know the feeling of almost needing him to start his fwittery so I could resume normal service of hating his guts Sad Angry

pegwin · 03/06/2013 00:24

Lundy A large part oddly his abusivness comes in the firm of punishments used to retaliate against you for resisting his control.

BreatheandFlyAway · 03/06/2013 00:36

YY that's how they corral us Angry

Ifeelsuchafool · 03/06/2013 06:31

Hi all. After a nerve-racking but ultimately successful day on Friday (I think, I've been asked to go back again today, anyway) have had an exhaustingly busy weekend and am spending that quiet hour before having to get DD2 up for college catching up.

verygently I hear you re contacting DS. DD2 had been hoping maybe to be invited down for a few days during half term, but no, FW sent her money instead. Sad She's says he's, "never been a proper dad, just an ATM".

notso haven't yet managed to read enough of the thread to understand your DD's problem but glad she is home and totally understand your horror at your H going through your drawers, that is exactly what my FW used to do! Sad

fff I hate that, "nice guy time" when you're just waiting for the next flare up and walking on eggshells. Sad

Charlotte hoping you're not having too stressful a morning with warn out DCs Sad

pegwin and Colin I hope your dating hopes and dreams come to fruition. Smile I can't see myself ever being in that state of mind again, but if you have found the courage to try again, I salute you! Smile

Alice I take my hat off to you. I don't think I could do what you're doing and sorry that you don't have any family nearby to help.

If there are some I haven't mentioned, I'm sorry, I'm still trying to get to "know" you all.

Have a good day, lovely ladies.

verygentlydoesit · 03/06/2013 06:50

Morning all Smile. DS and I are going home today, being away at a beautiful place has really helped me begin to detach.

I love my home but I'm dreading going back to the familiarity of it all somehow. Thank goodness P is away until Thursday.

The first thing I'm going to do is change 'our' bed sheets. I haven't slept in 'our bed' since P reacted to me saying he was selfish by saying he is leaving.

He will be back on Thursday, unless he's already found somewhere to go. Dreading Thursday, the house is small so it's hard to get the distance to detatch, I'm not sharing a bed, one of us will sleep downstairs (probably me Grin).

I hope everyone has a good day. Will be sending positive vibes for your appointment charlotte.

sweetpeasunday · 03/06/2013 07:24

very just catching up, and I note you want to tell DS without getting upset. Not sure how old he is, but I do not see a prblem with acknowledging you are upset, as long as you focus on the purpose of the conversation and listening to his concerns. I have said to dd, I find this very difficult, and I know you do too, but we need to have this conversation; also, that she does not need to take sides etc. So, I think acknowledging upset, even being upset, is okay, as long as you move the conversation along in the direction you want to go and keep your focus on ds feelings and stress that things will be okay in the long run (they will)

AliceDoesntLiveHereAnymore · 03/06/2013 07:50

FFF I think we all do that - feel ready to leave when they're being awful, but then slide back a bit when they're being nice. It is most likely the main reason it takes us so long to leave.

Ifeel of course you could do this - we ALL can do it and be free. It just seems out of our reach sometimes because we're wading through all the muck, and so busy focusing on getting through, that we tend to put off the getting out.

very would it help for you to set a date and just tell him that he needs to be out by X date? Perhaps in one week's time? You seem worried that he will never leave, and I imagine he is going to take as much time as possible, if nothing else because he knows it upsets you

Feeling a bit more positive this morning. School and all, so back to a more normal routine. Hope everyone is well.

pegwin · 03/06/2013 09:34

I am feeling a bit mince today Sad
too much on my mind.
I am feeling funny about things that I don't want to feel anything about. One of those feelings when you are not even sure what the feeling is, other than constantly chewing over things in your mind. basically I just feel generally nervy and stressed.

Part of me just wants to decide how i should feel about things and then feel that way about them. if only it were that simple.

Funnyfishface · 03/06/2013 10:53

Hi pegwin I feel the same. A bit stressed. Shoulders feel as if they have weights on them and tension headache.
I need to get myself out of the house but just feel so tired.

It's the constant chewing over isn't it? I need to declutter my mind.

Think I will take some paracetamol xx

ForSaletotheHighestBidder · 03/06/2013 10:59

hi all, haven't been on in a long time, various reasons.
just needed to spill this morning, bear with me.

last night fw and I stayed in a hotel in one of my misguided attempts to bring us closer. Long story short, I went to bed at about midnight, he said he would follow shortly. He came to bed at 5am. When I told him that this was selfish, unacceptable and upsetting, he stormed off, taking my wallet with him.

As far as I know he took a taxi home.
no idea what he told the babysitter.

I am so sick of alcohol taking first place. Then getting abused when I challenge this. I need to just leave I think. I've tried everything I can think of. Feeling very sad and lost this morning.

Funnyfishface · 03/06/2013 11:09

Forsale - I'm so sorry for you

Where had he been? In the hotel bar drinking or in the room?

What are your plans today xx

ForSaletotheHighestBidder · 03/06/2013 11:11

He was in the hotel bar with an American tourist.

I've just had breakfast and a long hot shower. I really want to just go home to my babies but I don't want to go home iykwim.

pegwin · 03/06/2013 11:18

ForSale what a typical selfish arse. made all the worse by the fact that you made an effort and he threw it back in your face and the fact that he is clearly not prepared to allow you to be annoyed with him even though he is in the wrong.

I think you know yourself he will not change and your efforts to bring you closer are pearls before swine.

sorry he is being such a twunt.

If you need to leave we are here to hold your hand Brew

FunnyFishface if i had shares in chamomile tea it would be worth a fortune. think I may have to crank it up to the roman chamomile though- the valium of the herbal tea world. although maybe not at work Wink

for me me FWex is being quite nice for reasons which have now become clear. so his behaviour towards me is for once not the problem.

I just need to hold on for a bit. I have a busy/stressful few weeks ahead which will hopefully keep me occupied and then after that I just need to take some time, relax, see friends (as much as you can as an LP). And keep reminding myself that as bruised as I am (emotionally) I am better off. not back to how I was before I met him but better off and I have my dcs.

Reading Lundy is helping me to see his behaviour more clearly and to see some of the things that went on which I should have seen at the time. which I suppose will help me set better boundaries in the future. but it is also making me really quite depressedSad. Seeing it there in black and white- you are a survivor of domestic abuse. FW is not a nice person. He is not just a bit misguided with a poor communication style. your dcs will probably have to put up with this too. He will get away scotfree. You kind of think bad people are something that happens to other unlucky people and then you find out you have had one in your life all this time and for most of it you did not even realise that they held you in contempt. so yes it is nice to be rid of him. and once you realise that is where you are the only course of action is to get free of him but I cannot help wishing it had never happened in the first place. (and although I cannot face other men just now I really wish someone nice would come along just give me a hug and remind me they are not all FWs if that makes sense. (silly me waiting to be rescued))

ponygirlcurtis · 03/06/2013 12:09

peg I am not surprised you have a lot on your mind at the moment. Go easy on yourself, there is no need to process everything right now, or reach a conclusion where by you know what you feel. And I found exactly the same when I reread Lundy after I was safely ensconced in my flat. I found it quite devastating to realise the full extent of things, that I had minimised and brushed under the (mental) carpet.
You've said before that he was FW-lite, but from the things you've told us, I really don't think he was. Sad Take time for yourself today.

Forsale he's a FW, and you know it. You shouldn't be the one making an effort. And taking your wallet. Angry Will you be able to get home home?

Alice glad you are feeling more positive today. That's it been about a week now, hasn't it? Think back to how you felt just before he left, bet you feel looooooads better!

Funnyfishface · 03/06/2013 12:31

Pegwin thanks I'm going to make a chamomile tea now good idea.

I am also reading Lundy with wide eyes!

Forsale- what a complete dick your h is. Does he admit he has a drink problem? I don't know what advise to give you. But until he gets help for his drinking I feel that you are banging your head. You can't fix him.

Xx

ForSaletotheHighestBidder · 03/06/2013 13:52

Thanks guys, we were getting the train home so I already had my return ticket in my handbag so was able to get home easily. Got back to find that DS is unwell and has been up most of the night - guilt.. Babysitter was shattered so I brought her home and am just ignoring DH and getting on with the day. Don't have the energy for another fight.

In the past he has admitted he has an issue with alcohol, has made promises and kept none of them, agreed to seek help and hasn't followed up etc. His EA behaviour is magnified x 10 after a drinking binge, he loses his temper far more easily and is physically more threatening to me (although smart enough to know that if he harmed me he would immediately lose any right to say that he is the poor put upon man who is bullied by his controlling, hormonal, nagging wife).

I keep hanging in there, you all know the pattern, I keep hoping that he will see the light, things improve dramatically when he cuts back on his drinking, it never lasts though - as one of you guys mentioned, I am on tenterhooks waiting for it all to come tumbling down again. I am at the stage where I am tolerating behaviour that others would not, because it has become normalised, or because it's not "as bad" as other previous behaviour. Spaghetti head today. How is it that normally rational, intelligent, strong women can turn into trembling, weak, indecisive, fearful women in an instant? I feel like such a failure today, I know his behaviours are his choice, but I still feel like I have failed because I can't make our marriage a good one. Idiot that I am.

Sorry for the long post about me me me. Just need to work through this. I have been saying for a long time that I will go to an AA meeting, I think this is the week to start.

Hugs to all who know how it feels to be me. I wish there weren't so many of us xx

startlife · 03/06/2013 14:20

Forsale, I'm so sorry.

I had an upsetting weekend - found out that my H has been receiving significant amounts of bonus money but has chosen not to tell me. He has allowed me to think that we have limited funds in the joint account and even on Fri he let me to pay a bill from my meagre tax refund (which I could spend many times over as I have an expensive month ahead)..then I checked and he had transferred thousands out of the joint account into a secret account. Going back through online statements I can see he's been doing this for months.

He said he couldn't pay for my new glasses..first new pair in years.

I really never ever thought he would do this to me so just trusted him. I have given up my well paid career to support him and exist on the small amount of money that he deems I can have. I think I'm still in shock.

honey86 · 03/06/2013 14:37

did anyone read the lundy types of abusive men?

www.inamaegreene.org/TypesofAbusiveMen.html

id say my ex is 'the victim' with a generous measure of 'the demand man' and 'the water torturer' finished off with a twist of 'mr always right'.

pegwin · 03/06/2013 14:52

forsale
How is it that normally rational, intelligent, strong women can turn into trembling, weak, indecisive, fearful women in an instant? I feel like such a failure today, I know his behaviours are his choice, but I still feel like I have failed because I can't make our marriage a good one. Idiot that I am.

You are not an idiot. you are not.
although I f i had a penny for every time someone on this thread said how did this happen to an intelligent rational women Angry (with FWs) they seem to only pick on woean that you would least expect to put up with this shit. it must be part of the manual.

it is shit. forsale don't put up with it. you can't fix him. you cannot make a marriage work when one partner isn't a partner in it. but you can give yourself permission to leave and realise that it is not you it is him. all him.

start what a duplicitous sneaky underhand FW. keep as much evidence as you can of all this. you may need it. have you tackled him about it? are you planning to? I am not sure that i would as he may hide it? but it depends on whether you are leaving or not.