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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Support for those in Emotionally Abusive relationships:22

999 replies

foolonthehill · 23/05/2013 18:05

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
a check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violenceAre you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

what couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
should I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

OP posts:
verygentlydoesit · 01/06/2013 22:35

bounty what you said about waiting for a blow-up to make it feel 'ok' to leave makes perfect sense to me. But as sweetpea makes a really good point that you don't need permission to leave.

Funnyfishface · 01/06/2013 22:41

This thread moves so fast it's hard to keep track of everyone. But I am thinking of you all and your support helps me. So thanks everyone.

Yesterday was awful. I had anxiety all day. Out of the blue. I met up with my sister for a catch up and cuppa. I was exhausted when I got home and slept on sofa for an hour. Dizzy, headache I know it's the anxiety. I did consider cancelling seeing sis but I know I have to tackle anxiety head on. So I was really proud of myself that I did it.

H comes home and looks at me rolling eyes ' what's the matter with you now'. I said I've been bad today with anxiety. He tuts and walks into the kitchen.

When he relays this back to me he says but I asked you if you were ok? Fw fw fw. These comments are so hurtful and distorted. Drives me crazy.

18 year old DS went out with his pals drinking and got himself in such a horrendous state he couldn't even get his key in the door. 5am passed out outside the front door. Luckily h heard him and carried him in. Sick for hours. First time he has got into a state. It's freaked me out. Can't stop thinking what could have happened to him. He is so sorry. I am so disappointed. He's a good boy. His friends have all called round today and told him off so he is really sorry.

Trying to stay calm

bountyicecream · 01/06/2013 22:48

oh I just don't know.

I suppose nothing really challenging has happened. It's quite easy to get on in the sunshine I suppose. generally better moods.

I've not really wanted to do anything that disrupts him.

I've considered trying to upset him. eg get up earlier than him which he hates. On a bad day I have been known to entertain DD for up to 2 hours (8am to 10am) in my room (he sleeps in the spare) as I know he will be in a grump for hours if woken before 10. I felt so childlike waiting to be 'allowed' out my room.

But he really seems to be nice. Has honestly not mentioned wt or eating at all. But I'm struggling to forgive him for all those years of comments. Plus he hasnt apologised. Which makes me think he's still thinking them but just not mentioning them as I said i wouldnt tolerate this any longer. Which leaves me finding it impossible to let him touch me . Ho hum ...............

ponygirlcurtis · 01/06/2013 22:52

very it's a really awful thought. And your DS probably will be upset. And then he'll probably be ok the next minute. And he'll process it in his own way.

Not the same, I know, but I allowed my DS1 (then 6yo) to go to his Nannie's funeral last year. I was so worried about how it would affect him, I thought he'd be devastated. He was upset, but he seemed to deal with it in his own way. He was crying at various points in the funeral day, but minutes later he'd be playing and chasing his cousins.
I think what I was actually worried about was that I didn't want to see him upset as it hurts me so much, I wasn't sure I could deal with seeing his grief as well as dealing with my own. But knowing that DS1 could be upset and deal with it was a great relief. He unfortunately then attended his grandad's funeral less than a year later, and again he got very upset, but not as I imagined. He asked strange questions and brought it up at weird times. Their heads process things differently to an adult's.

Not sure if any of that is helpful, I know you're dreading tell him but best to get it over with.

ponygirlcurtis · 01/06/2013 22:59

bounty that sounds so familiar. My FW would pout and create if I got up before him (or before he was ready to get up). Probably partly because then that meant he couldn't try it on with me. And no-one was allowed to make any noise at all in the house until his daughters were up - they probably weren't that bothered, but it was one of his rules. I remember him coming and turning the TV off one morning at 8am after I'd got up with DS2 and was breastfeeding him. Everything was by his rules.

But that's really, really not how you should be living. You - and DD - should be free to come and go as you like, get up when you like, go to bed when you like. The very fact that you say he's being lovely, but you are deliberately not disrupting that by saying/doing anything out of turn... You don't need to try to upset him. Just do what you would do if he wasn't there, ie ignore his special 'rules', and it'll happen.

FFF oh lordy, that sounds awful with your son (and your H). Hope you are managing to stay calm, what a hard situation.

verygentlydoesit · 01/06/2013 23:04

Thanks pony that is interesting and really helpful.

I thought it best to tell DS once P is ready to go (he's looking for somewhere to stay, should be sorted in 2 weeks). That way we can tell him exactly where P will be, when he will see him etc..

Do you think we should tell him straight away instead? While P is still at home- I thought that might be more confusing and unsettling, but maybe I'm mistaken?

I've been tempted to tell him now while we are away (without P), but I think it's just me selfishly wanting to 'get it over with' so I've stopped myself. He's had such a lovely time, it's bittersweet knowing what is coming.....

verygentlydoesit · 01/06/2013 23:08

Sorry fff I missed your post. I'm sorry to you've been anxious, sounds like you tackled it head on by going out as planned, good on you.

Maybe it was a one off for DS? I for one did this to my mum, just the once, before I understood my alcohol tolerance levels.

bountyicecream · 01/06/2013 23:11

FFF sorry about your DS. However his friends sound very responsible in telling him off rather than encouraging him so I would take that as a big positive. Peer pressure is so high and a lot of 18yr old lads would be telling him he was cool. I guess we've all done that before lots of times and hopefully he'll learn from it

ponygirlcurtis · 01/06/2013 23:14

I don't know, very. What you say about leaving it until P is ready to go makes sense. But then, so does telling him now and getting it over with, maybe gives DS time to get used to the idea that he's going, before he actually goes, he can process and ask questions. I don't think either approach is right or wrong. I think it depends on DS, and you know him best of all to make the judgement call. Whatever you decide, I know it'll be with thought of DS's best interests, and often there are no right decisions, just decisions.

bountyicecream · 01/06/2013 23:14

pony thanks good advice. I won't try to wind him up because that's kind of reverse FWery anyway. But will just plough on enjoying my new found 'freedom' and please myself whilst wearing the bomb jacket whilst I wait for the expolsion.

pegwin · 01/06/2013 23:15

very personally, i would wait. but I don't think I handled telling my dcs brilliantly. well i did not tell them. FW flounced out and took the (e fucking normous) telly with him while they were watching it.

but subsequently not done brilliant job of explaining. but it is still better for them than witnessing abuse.

pegwin · 01/06/2013 23:16

what pony said.

ponygirlcurtis · 01/06/2013 23:25

peg FW flounced out and took the telly with him while they were watching it. Shock

FW FW FW!!!!

pegwin · 01/06/2013 23:35

well it was pretty poor flouncing. it took two trips and he made a Pratt of himself because it was not exactly a telly you could carry out under your arm. 52 inch. think he thought i would beg him to stay so i could keep the telly Hmm typical man thinking it is all about size Grin

the kids asked him if he was packing for a holidaySad

but it did upset the kids it is not the optimal way to tell your kids.
. i had the old telly set up in less than half an hour because we can manage just fine without him or his telly.

have totally outed myself if he reads this though.

BreatheandFlyAway · 02/06/2013 00:33

Bloody hell, peg re the telly. What an arse!!

Funnyfishface · 02/06/2013 01:00

Very- I would wait to tell your DS. Personally speaking.

Bounty- my h is also being nice ATM. When I saw my sis yesterday she asked me what would it take for me to leave. Mmmm a black eye or affair. Sad thing is its true. How awful is that? She was mortified of course.

18year old DS is going on first lads holiday in 6 weeks. Am trying not to get worked up. I wouldn't allow him to go last year but he is working and 18 now so not much choice really. Nice bunch of lads but after last nights antics I feel very uneasy.

H is snoring now and he will be extra nice in the morning. He likes sun morning sex. Oh god. I have avoided same bed time as him all week but he is starting to get annoyed with me. .

ColinCaterpillar · 02/06/2013 03:10

very yes I would wait too. It will be hard for your boy, but the alternative will be harder for you both long term. Thank you for your kind words, it is really painful. I'm seeing my sister tomorrow and she does a good sermon in 'heres all the reasons he's a FW, here's the reasons you are fab' and it helps. Plus I get to cuddle my nephew.

I'm still wishing FW would come back but I know that's it. I've decided it's win-win either way. If he comes back, I get my fix. If he doesn't, I don't get abuse again and I get myself back.

AliceDoesntLiveHereAnymore · 02/06/2013 07:17

very I also would wait to tell him. Your FW will know right away that the 6yo knows (as he won't be able to hide it), and that will put in play all sorts of emotional blackmail that will only hurt your DS. I tried to tell our DCs calmly but H made some nasty comments about it in front of them and upset them quite a bit. It wasn't pretty and while H apologised later, the damage was still done and I was really angry that he could be so vile to the DCs when they were already upset. H still just doesn't understand that "sorry" doesn't instantly heal all the hurt, especially with children. Hmm

peg I think I would have been hoping very hard that if he was going to walk out with that big telly that he dropped it just outside the door - preferably on his foot. Grin Imagine trying not to laugh at THAT. I don't think I could have kept it in.

AliceDoesntLiveHereAnymore · 02/06/2013 07:54

Ahhhhhh. A little incognito bingo. Always good for the soul. Grin I feel better already.

thatsnotmynamereally · 02/06/2013 09:12

very it is a tricky call re: waiting, it might be good to wait even if you feel you are being less than truthful with DS and it may just delay some issues. But on the other hand, if you just tell him now it may help you and make the process a healthier one, so to speak, for both of you moving forward. Although I haven't been there, I imagine the ideal scenario would be that he just doesn't appear in your day-to-day lives for a while, DS gets used to it, then you matter-of-factly mentioned that P is living somewhere else now, but I know that there is so much more to it than that and there will be some good advice to be found on here (and in books). If only it were all easy! So much more complicated with children involved.

Alice so right about the hurt not being solved simply by 'sorry'. Because the world revolves around them and how they are feeling so when they hurt others that is only a secondary consideration.

Peg funny in a very sad way about the TV... and that you could were perfectly able to function watching the old one speaks volumes!

Pony your story of having to tiptoe (literally) around P's demands and be so quiet in the morning brought back memories for me, it was always like that and it always meant that weekends always started off badly. What's really annoying now is that as soon as H gets up he starts making huge amounts of noise, TV comes on full blast or talks loudly, feels it's OK to wake me up even if he knows I've slept badly the night before and want a lie-in (rare) to make up for it...

I had a strange couple of days... H is really 'escalating' re: the house sale/purchase. I went out with him on Friday to our other house (project which has consumed all our 'retirement' funds, I like the project house but H makes it no fun to go there, the usual reasons) and I kept saying that although I liked the house he wants to buy, because of the hateful time we've had over the past year (while renovating the 'project') I wasn't keen to pursue his new passion house, clearly pointing out to him that he behaves like a FW in that he only considers things from his own point of view and that everything is all about him.

Sorry, a bit of a me-me rant but it really helps me to write it down.

For example, we already have a house on the river (practically in it, we had problems with flooding last year, just the garden) and the new house is on a river as well. I am not wildly crazy about about rivers, more like take-it-or leave-it. But he 'likes rivers' so I have to as well, (and what really is annoying is that we have THE river house already so we don't need another) but if I say that I am ambivalent about another flood-prone house he shouts at me that I have no interests and no hobbies (FFS-- I do but he doesn't see that!).

Also the new house is two bedrooms, 2 small cottage-y bedrooms, and really too small to have more than one guest. But because he has this vision of himself living in that house he doesn't see that as a problem. And it can't really be extended, we've looked at the planning. The house is in a small village with no work prospects for me-- no problem he says, he will buy me a nice car with the money we've saved, then I can just drive into London if want to work there (hour's drive Sad). Then he suggested that we set up a firm together and I could work for him. I think the look on my face made him drop that conversation, we've worked together in the past and it's a disaster, I feel like a slimy abused PA. Anyway I framed all of my objections in such a way, that it was the bossy, selfish, controlling nature of his attitude that was making me not want to go ahead with the purchase of his dream home... Well he wasn't having any of that, naturally.

All day he acted all nasty at me, finding fault with everything, but late afternoon I tried a change of tactics-- said (almost pained me) that maybe the house was a GOOD idea, maybe I was just being too cautious, of course it was a nice house and maybe it just took some time for me to get used to the idea... guess what, instant change of his mood, he became more communicative, talking about how much fun it would be when the kids brought their grandkids around (WTF?) and how never mind about it being too small, he would build a studio in the garden etc... the sad thing is, that if he were a nice person and we had a good relationship it might be true. BUT IT ISN'T THAT WAY!

Then he got all melancholic, saying that he'd worked like f*&k over the past 20 years and hadn't enjoyed one bit of it, and now for the first time in his life he just wanted to have something (that house) that he really wanted, now that he didn't 'have' to live in London any more because we didn't need to be near schools etc, what a sacrifice he'd made for the sake of our family he'd put all his needs and desires on the back burner so he could support us... then he gave a little cough and said 'I think I might be dying. I need to get out of London [and get a house by a river], or I'm just going to die'... of course hearing that I was thinking YIPPEEE if he could promise to be dead in a year I'd agree to buy the house Grin but FFS!!

pegwin · 02/06/2013 09:55

that's at if he could promise to be dead in a year.Grin

it is hilarious isn't it they get everything their own way and still moan on about all.the sacrifices they have made.

FW's favourite was 'well what do I get of this? What is in this relationship for me'
in the end I just said you will have to work that out for yourself and if you cannot well then stop inflicting it on us.
he claimed to have been a domestic slave. he washed some dishes and once he hoovered and cleaned because i was cooking for his family.

pegwin · 02/06/2013 09:57

it is s tricky one though isn't it. how do you make sure the house sells without getting tied into buying the other?.

do you have a plan for where you go once it is sold?

AliceDoesntLiveHereAnymore · 02/06/2013 11:10

I can't imagine dealing with the stress of EA plus the stress of a house sale/buying new house as well.

It's quite an eye opener to see all the same behaviour repeating itself throughout all our relationships - it's like we're all with the same OH sometimes, isn't it? Some minor differences, obviously, but the regularity of certain behaviour is astounding. Do they get a handbook that we're not aware of?!? Hmm

ponygirlcurtis · 02/06/2013 12:47

Alice, I've done it, although it was before I realised FW was abusive, before we married, just thought he was very stressed Hmm. So I did all the work on buying the house (solicitors etc) as well as my almost full-time job, as well as looking after DS1, and as well as being pregnant, all to save him the 'stress'. It was still never enough, and I'd frequently get it in the neck for not having said the 'right' thing to the solicitor or asked the right questions.
I think the anti-Lundy comes to them in their sleep and indoctrinates them with the script, so it just seeps into their brains. Grin

Oh yes, thats, sounds familiar, all FW's rules went out the window if it was him making the noise! If we'd argued on a week night (ie just DS1 in the house), he would frequently turn the music up really loud so DS1 couldn't get to sleep. Or if he was angry with me in the mornings because I wouldn't get up and make him breakfast he'd rattle the drawers in the kitchen very loudly at 6.30am so me and DS1 woke up. Arsehole.

AliceDoesntLiveHereAnymore · 02/06/2013 16:08

ARRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH!

Yes, I am seriously agitated. Not specifically related to H, although related to the situation. Okay, a little related to H. But I can't go into detail on here. I will just say that people (not anyone on here, but people in RL) need to pull their heads out and THINK occasionally. My life is currently complicated enough without extra shit to deal with!!

Angry

and breathe.....