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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Support for those in Emotionally Abusive relationships:22

999 replies

foolonthehill · 23/05/2013 18:05

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
a check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violenceAre you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

what couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
should I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

OP posts:
verygentlydoesit · 29/05/2013 15:29

I'm writing my shit list- I'm on point 31. Feel guilty writing it.

I'm listing some eye watering stuff, but a voice inside my head keeps reminding me that I'm supposed to have forgiven him for some of it (because we agreed we couldn't move forward unless I could forgive him). Plus I'm forever trying to let him off the hook by empathising with why he did various twattish things. I'm a compete pushover!

Still it's a very very long list Blush.

pegwin · 29/05/2013 15:35

very you need to recognise these feelings of guilt etc. which you are doing. it is very healthy. you are aware of it and you are doing it anyway.
and it is only by listing all these things that you will actually move on and stay moved on.

well doneThanks

because we agreed we couldn't move forward unless I could forgive him
because it was more convenient for him if you forgave him otherwise he would actually have to do something about his twattish behaviour. was he by any chance the classic you must forgive me but I can cast up any minor misdemeanour from years ago at any point to deflect attention from my bad behaviour type of FW?

verygentlydoesit · 29/05/2013 15:56

Thank you for the encouragement pegwin, I'm glad that you think it was worthwhile to write the list despite my heart not really being in it.

Yes, he probably is that type of FW, although my misdemeanours kind of pale into insignificance next to his, so there's less to bring up IYSWIM. I have genuinely forgiven him for some of the twattish things that he did, (maybe more fool me), and he has changed- but not enough.

AliceDoesntLiveHereAnymore · 29/05/2013 16:25

because we agreed we couldn't move forward unless I could forgive him
because it was more convenient for him if you forgave him otherwise he would actually have to do something about his twattish behaviour. was he by any chance the classic you must forgive me but I can cast up any minor misdemeanour from years ago at any point to deflect attention from my bad behaviour type of FW?

Exactly this. So many times I was told that I was "dwelling" on things and that I need to "get over it" when I was upset over something. As soon as he said "sorry" then I was supposed to instantly be cheerful sweet and compliant again. (Aggravatingly, I remember telling him that my father was exactly the same way - if he deemed it was over, then it was over, and that was that and woe betide anyone who then wasn't "over it")

verygentlydoesit · 29/05/2013 17:04

Hmmm Hmm seems this tactic is part of the FW tool kit alice?!

It's dawning on me that living together for 3 weeks is going to be tough on me emotionally. Lucky we are both away a lot over the 3 weeks do that will make things easier. But for some confusing reason each time P has popped back home today (I'm off work today), I've felt really really sad- maybe it's because he's been nice ish. I asked if he had looked into somewhere to go but he said he hadn't had a chance and he's been concentrating on other stuff. I know he's no good but every time I see him my heart breaks a bit more- aaarrrggghhhh why am I so weak?!

FairyFi · 29/05/2013 17:12

keep walking Colin step by step hun.. xx

quiet shit list sounds perfect

and oh! yyy to recalibration!

FairyFi · 29/05/2013 17:13

Blush huge x-post there ooops Blush

FairyFi · 29/05/2013 17:14

heart-breaking doesn't make you weak lovely lady... it makes you human, and genuine Very xxx

AliceDoesntLiveHereAnymore · 29/05/2013 18:20

Very I feel sad when I see H now, mainly because I think what a wasteland our relationship became. It was so good for so long, and then it just slowly started to erode. I would've loved to grow old with him and raise our children and spend my life with him... but sadly I couldn't also live with the EA. I know MIL is hoping that 3-6 months apart or so and we'll get back together, but we've both told her this is for the best.

As relieved as I am that my life is on a more even path with less daily stress caused by EA, at the same time, I'm well aware that it's at the cost of my marriage.

verygentlydoesit · 29/05/2013 18:48

Thank you so much for your understanding fairy and Alice. This is all so tricky to navigate isn't it? I think it might have been easier if P had somewhere to go immediately and if he had managed to show the same rejection today that he demonstrated yesterday- I know he's not changed his mind but yesterday I felt resigned to the fact that he was leaving. Today has been trickier, and my heart strings are being pulled.

I feel guilty that I couldn't put up with his behaviour any longer. I'm sad that he's going to go away, and I am disappointed to find that I don't want him to go. I'm not going to ask him to stay though, he wouldn't anyway, and it would be terribly weak of me.

I had some therapy and we talked about how I position myself as the rescuer in relationships. I can feel it happening now- I want to rescue P, make it all better.....

I hope that I get my strength back tomorrow and turn the rescuing towards myself and DS rather than P.

I hope everyone is having a peaceful evening.

AliceDoesntLiveHereAnymore · 29/05/2013 19:04

It is tricky. Honestly, as much as I'm glad H is being cooperative, it'd almost be easier if he was being nasty. Nice behaviour always makes us question it all, doesn't it? It's so much easier to stay focused when they're not nice - makes things much more clear cut IMO.

We've obviously told some friends and family. Most on his side are surprised and sad, some on mine are as well, but my close friends suspected that this was coming - they're being supportive, which is helpful. I won't be telling my family for quite some time - they don't live nearby and won't be helpful or supportive anyway (despite having gone through similar circumstances), so there's really no point looking for support there.

LemonDrizzled · 29/05/2013 20:33

I feel guilty that I couldn't put up with his behaviour any longer.

VGDI you have summed up the difficulty we all have getting out of EA relationships. They treat us unkindly and we put up with it until eventually we snap and end the relationship, but instead of putting the blame on the person who behaved badly and caused the breakdown we blame ourselves for our failure in tolerating such treatment.

You are entitled to be treated well, with respect and consideration. You should not have to put up with less, or tolerate unkindness, or feel guilty that you cannot! The price of assertiveness is often guilt. But that doesnt make it wrong to be assertive.

You are doing so well! It is clear to us reading your posts that your eyes are open and you are seeing clearly

CharlotteCollinsismovingon · 29/05/2013 20:36

I am feeling sorry for myself. Have been talking to 3yo dd3 about going to London for a few days with FW and the other dcs. She's been looking forward to it, it seemed, and has been out just with them twice this week, both of which seemed to have gone well. But this evening she said she doesn't want to go. And I was already wondering if it was the right thing to do. But I so want to be selfish about it! Because the idea of having nearly 4 days to myself to spend completely as I like (probably a lot of staring at the wall) was at times the only thing that was getting me through this week and now it looks like I can't have it. It was already feeling like the nicest thing that's happened to me in 10 if not 15 years. And now instead I shall have a clingy dd3 who wants permanent entertaining because the house is unnaturally quiet.

I didn't want to have 4 dcs. I only had them all when I did because I thought FW was going to be a totally engaged father from the way he spoke about children beforehand. I thought I'd be more in a supporting role, learning from him. What a laugh. And then also had them when I did because he told me we couldn't afford to have more time in between them. He has a pretty screwed up approach to money - it's certainly more important than me and the dcs, he shows that all the time although he'd never admit it.

I especially hate holidays as my dcs enjoy totally different things from me. What am I talking about? I don't even know what I enjoy. I am a zombified non-entity, trying to care for my dcs without being too upset by all the arguing, whining and junior FWery that's always going on.

Sorry about that. It's all got rather on top of me tonight. DD1 asked what was wrong earlier and I said that I was feeling fed up and tired, but I'd snap out of it sooner or later so she was not to worry. Hope I'm right!

CharlotteCollinsismovingon · 29/05/2013 20:39

And I have been feeling jealous about your good friends, those of you who have them. I am feeling very alone in all this at the moment - I have a couple of supportive, understanding friends, but they're not close enough to lean on much. Goodness, I'm really on a self-destructive roll tonight - I shall try to pull myself together and at least shut up about myself!

Funnyfishface · 29/05/2013 20:40

Flowers for you Charlotte and hand holding xxx

AliceDoesntLiveHereAnymore · 29/05/2013 20:49

Charlotte If you lived nearby - I would happily come over with chocolate cake, wine, and a shoulder to lean on (or cry on if needed).

AliceDoesntLiveHereAnymore · 29/05/2013 20:51

And you don't need to stop - go ahead and vent or ramble or whatever makes you feel better. I'm popping back onto the board here and there for the next couple hours. We all understand the need to get it off our chests sometimes. Goodness, how many times have I come on here and ranted or cried or just vented (somewhat incoherently) about H? (too many to count!)

CharlotteCollinsismovingon · 29/05/2013 20:52

Yes but my rant isn't even about FW particularly! Although I suppose it is indirectly.

Funnyfishface · 29/05/2013 20:53

Ooh yes I would happily share the choccy cake and supply the other shoulder.
Are you near me - North London?

pegwin · 29/05/2013 20:54

(((Charlotte)))
Sad you are not getting your your alone. i felt totally guilty for how much i enjoyed it when they were at my mums. well not totally....Wink

lemon all of that.

LaSingeEstSurLaBranche · 29/05/2013 20:59

I've had major reminders this week of why leaving and starting divorce proceedings was the right thing to do. FWery with our dc, issues with his dds that he rang me to help him sort out. Told I don't do anything for anybody as I refused to wash his dishes for him.
Also today he confirmed I wanted him to go ahead alone with the new mortgage deal and reaffirmed that once we are divorced "it won't be like this" meaning me able to come into the house at pick ups/drop offs.
I find it staggering that he is still arrogant enough to have to check that I know what I'm doing. I know EXACTLY what I'm doing.

LemonDrizzled · 29/05/2013 21:06

Charlotte I am sorry you are feeling low and unsupported. You do realise your DD doesnt know what is best for her? Her momentary wish to stay home is not more important than your need for time off parenting to recharge your batteries. If she goes with the others she will quickly forget she didnt want to go. And her DF will have a chance to reassure her and deal with her emotions. Which is good for them both. You can stick to the plan and let her go with the others.
Have a Wine and some Thanks

AliceDoesntLiveHereAnymore · 29/05/2013 21:08

Perhaps he thinks that you are bluffing? God knows. But then when he's enjoyed control for quite some time, he's obviously loathe to give it up.

AliceDoesntLiveHereAnymore · 29/05/2013 21:13

Charlotte I have to agree with LemonDrizzled re your DD. It's really not much different than when they don't want to go to nursery - they put up a good tussle, but she'll get past it once she's engaged with something else with the others. You need to look after yourself as well - your health and happiness is just as important! A happy rested mummy can cope with children much better than a tired stressed mummy.

bountyicecream · 29/05/2013 21:16

Wow - all the talk about the feelings of guilt that you couldn't live with the EA any more, and the sense of failure at the end of marriage has really helped. That is exactly how I feel but couldn't really understand it. Also that the nice FW (who I currently have) makes the leaving so much harder - at least you know where you are with nasty FW and feel justified in your leaving.

charlotte - you do have lots of virtual friends here who totally get you. I can really understand the feeling of loss that you were looking forward to some you-time. Could you arrange for DD3 to spend a few hours with a friend or a relative just to give you a bit of space? It is important to have time to focus on you. Having 4 DCs must be really tough and it sounds like they are quite close together age wise. And with little or no support from FW too. Feel free to rant away on here. You need to let it out.

lasinge hope the FWery doesn't get too bad but maybe it's nice to know with 100% certainty that you've done the right thing?