Support for those in Emotionally Abusive relationships:22

[foolonthehill]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
a check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violenceAre you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

what couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
should I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

I so want to join in but am lurking horribly as can't keep up. Conked out on the sofa, blaming the codeine I'm on for an ear infection... Have started smoking again despite giving up 3 years ago and can't give up. Don't know why! I suspect some attempt at doing wtf I want now FW has moved out, but very cross with myself.

I'veconsidered counselling but haven't taken the plunge yet. If they made me question the brave decisions I've made I'd run for the hills! Not good. I really feel for you.

I have a shit list in the form of diaries that I've emailed myself over the years. If I feel myself minimising things I read them back, get cross, and know I'm making the right decision.

Night night all zzzzz

Snoopy hello and welcome, though sorry you are having to endure such realisations

Charlotte glad you had a decent night?s sleep ? your fw can?t be arsed to help until he feels under threat (much like mine)

Colin you don?t need a miracle, you need time and understanding. However well meaning your dsis (and mine is similar), she clearly doesn?t understand. See bounty?s friend for example of how we need our support doled out if someone cares to give it

FFF ooh the sulking and sighing re sex ? I so know what you mean. Thank God he has no claim over me any more ? I endured his guilt trips and miserable sexual roundabout for so many years?.

And FFF and pony sorry to hear you have similar difficulties with lovely but not fully understanding family. Mine are great but I would appreciate a bit more respect for my choices and journey out of ea, rather than the frustration. But, hey ho, my family (lovely though they are) are the reason I am in this pickle. Lots of EA and weirdness as a child. They?ve progressed and are much nicer now but seem surprised that I struggle with life !

fairy interesting what you say about the same road happening, a comfort in my mess of indecision. You?re right

Alice I?m so glad your ex is being reasonable about the split. Thank God for that.

pegwin hello, lovely.

Notso, thinking about you and your dd. I hope she feels better very soon. at your poor dear DP feeling stressed so not able to stay and support his DD!

Charlotte beware your counsellor. Not sure she sounds on the ball re ea at all.

tether good idea re list. It helps to clarify.

no regrets

I've reached the stage in my counselling where I am examining and attempting to tackle why the actual fuck I've put up with my fw for so many years .

breath that is always a rough one to put yourself through but i suppose it is a nettle that has to be grasped. with myself i found there were so many complicated factors it was a perfect storm.
hope you get some answers that help in the long run.

Oh my goodness, yes, the perfect storm, that is right. Food for thought. Hope you are okay breathe.

Hi everyone, may I join in? P decided enough was enough last night and is leaving in about 3 weeks, provided he can sort out somewhere to go.

Long story (aren't they all), in a nutshell he is a very selfish man, I finally faced up to the fact that it wasn't ok. I caused so much resentment in standing up to him, and by withdrawing for a few days because I didn't know what else to do.

I really don't know if I'd have had the courage to end things, but he's done it anyway now. I was very upset, but less so than I expected to be- sadly I don't think I've accepted things yet, I'm dreading the moment when I do .

I'm thinking of making a list of all the ways I've been hurt or treated badly over the years (together 9 years, one lovely DS aged 6). I'm kind of dreading making it, raking everything up, but I think maybe it's important that I remember the truth of how things have been.

I was reading Lundy's brilliant 'Should I stay or should I go'. Unfortunately, I can't face it now though as there's too much suggestion that it's possible to change things, and to not split up.

I really really would love a book aimed at someone where the relationship is over, rather than suggesting ways of staying together which is likely to tear me apart and make me wish I'd tried harder. Can anyone recommend anything please (ideally on kindle as DS and I are going away tomorrow and a delivery won't arrive before I go).

Lastly, I'm sorry that there are others here enduring the heartache of difficult relationships. Unmumsnetty hugs to you all.

Perfect storm-- so true for most of us, it all seems so clear in hindsight and it is so hard not to be sad about the wasted time, years in my case.

For me it was:

1. low self esteem, chronic in my case (thanks mum!)
2. very early on he picked up on the fact that I wasn't very confident in my uni work, 'helped' me with a project that I got top marks for then went around telling everyone he'd done the project himself when he hadn't done ANYTHING but have a chat to me about it... I helped this along by demurely saying 'oh, I couldn't have done it without H'... it all went downhill project-wise from there
3. we were 'friends' at that point and I really fancied other guys, made the mistake of sharing that with him, but he told me, confidentially, that certain people were talking about me and what a slut I was (I was NOT!) and eventually it was just easier to get into a 'relationship' with him, as it seemed to be an 'intellectual' relationship (rather than one based on me actually liking him? never had any dates, any romance)
4. moved from the USA to the UK, I had to rely on him. Bought a flat together which was very important to both of us. Got married when my work permit ran out.
5. moved back to the US when the recession hit (1990's!). Had a baby (not planned, not my fault, long story). I always think of this time as when his abusive nature came out as he was horrible to me after DS was born, I 'solved' it in the end by going back to work and becoming superwoman.
6. moved back to UK, had DD, (this was 17 years ago!) from then on has been a continuous series of events/anecdotes/etc, all down to me not being good enough. I've been desperately unhappy, known something was wrong but felt I couldn't leave because it all looked like my fault for being petty, even now if I relate incidents to friends it all sounds so petty. Yesterday I challenged H about his attitude (am getting bolder these days but trying to act normal so he won't suspect) I asked him why he was so unhappy-- he said to me that I need to try harder to make him happy. And lose 2 stone and keep the house cleaner, and get a full time job earning over 50k (am working part time from home now). I promise you, I am not that bad!

Until I found this site and read 'Why Does He Do That?' I had no idea that I was dealing with a 'type'. I just thought it was that our personalities clashed, and that it was a 50/50 blame situation. Actually I did have a lightbulb moment about a year ago when I called our Dr's to discuss my concern that he might have a brain tumour (to explain the erratic personality) and the Dr referred me to Women's Aid-- first person who ever suggested it may be down to him, not me. In the past I've tried to suggest to him counselling etc and he's refused saying I just needed to try harder. Hah! Glad we didn't now!

But... I have to say, it hasn't been all bad and I have lovely DS and DD, we have some degree of financial security through him as his (and his work partners) bullying ways have made him more money than I ever would have earned.

Sorry, this has got very long and very personal, I was just going to comment to agree with the 'perfect storm' idea of WHY you get together and stay, when it all seems so stupid when you look back.

We've got some really weird stuff going on here at the moment, H has decided it is time to sell the family house as both kids will be at uni (touching wood as I write that!) next year, he has found his 'dream' house and wants to buy it. I do not like the house he's found in a small village where I'd be all alone with him. Nor do the kids like this idea of leaving London. I don't think that you should stay or move according to the whims of your kids but.... he is showing himself to be unbelievably selfish. He's using every trick in the book to get us to side with him, I'm trying to brush it off for now as I am sticking with my plan of keeping everything v v calm until DD finishes her A2 exams, tense weeks coming up but she's working so hard on revising! So proud of her.

Please remind me to LTB!

very hi. glad you found us ok

thats you seem to have come to a rational place about how it all happened. I think the initial tendency us to think I brought this on myself a
deliberately and it is better to see it the way you do, as a set of circumstances rather than a deliberate choice. iyswim. glad you met GP sounds like a good one.

I'm not saying exactly that it was inevitable for me. I made bad choices. and I know people who would not have made those choices but it was not one choice but rather a whole series of small things. although it is important to get a idea of what this choices were to protect yourself in future.

for every professional like charlotte counsellor and Alice paed who sow doubt it us just as well there are GPs like yours it is just a shame that which type you get is yet again part of the prevailing weather to stick with the storm idea.

onwards and upwards

peg so right about most professionals saying to stick with it EVEN when there are big government ad campaigns going on about EA/DV and hidden abuse.

I've just been reading back and I'd missed that charlotte about Relate dealing with counselling for DV?? is that TRUE? I'd like to know more about that as it seems to go against all prevailing advice. But I really hope the counselling will help/consolidate/affirm your own sense of what is going on and that your H won't see it as a way to 'fix' you.

I did try Relate on my own many years ago and here is a synopsis of the session:
Me: My husband is really mean to me and calls me a bitch all the time.
Relate: Did he have a bad childhood?
Me: Yes, I suppose he did.
Relate: Maybe you could try to see things from his point of view?
Me: Ok, I'll do that.
END!? I went away £35 poorer and felt worse than ever.

very have you read 'Why Does He Do That?'? Such an eye-opener as to motivation/tactics... you may be thankful in the end that he jumped rather than you having to push him out (or run) but all strength to you now, cannot be easy. Do you think he may try to come back?

Thatsnotmyname - your h sounds like mine. I'm nodding to the wasted years. Like you though there has always been a reason to stay. Mainly the children. Mine are now 23 and 18. There are no more exams so no more excuses. AND it's not that bad all the time.
So we don't leave whilst its going well. Then we question how bad it actually is. And so the cycle continues. My h last awful rant which included calling me a fucking idiot, punching the wall etc was last Wednesday. He is been quite nice since then.
I also have low self esteem. In fact I have been suffering with panic and anxiety for two years and am on meds. My therapist says its because of him.
My family are wondering why I stay. Because I loved him. But I am questioning that now. We have been together 22 years

Verygently - welcome and sorry you are going through this. Big hugs

very I've been looking at that book on Amazon, I'm going to order it thank you for the recommendation. The trouble is I am going away tomorrow and would really love to have something to read whilst away that will help me stay 'grounded'- so ideally I need something that I can download onto my kindle.

Your Relate therapist story is shocking!

thatsnot thank you for the welcome, I'm sorry you too are trapped in the difficult cycle. P hasn't left yet, he needs a few weeks to sort somewhere to go, I'm trying to tell myself he won't come back (and most importantly that I shouldn't take him back), but I know that there's a possibility lurking in the back of my mind- trying to squash it though.

He just went out (I'm off work today), I asked him if he's out all day and if he's around this evening. He said he will be in and out and I tried to say I thought it best if we stayed out if each others way a bit- he just said I should do whatever is best. All very reasonable- which left me in floods of tears as soon as he closed the door. I'm pathetic at being brave, scared I will fall apart .

Sorry- my comments for very should have been for thatsnot, and my comments for thatsnot should have been for funnyfish.

Really sorry to muddle you up!

very don't be too afraid to have a bit of a grieve. you have to let it out. just because you are (understandably) upset at the end of your marriage does not mean it is the wrong decision. it is part of the process of moving on and healing. I cried and cried just because underlying it all it was just so unfair. I had the choice between two things neither of which i woudl have chosen and no hope of what would have been my first choice. a family life with someone who was not a twunt.

re. prefect storm:
I think the stages i have been going through:
1- realising he won't change. it is unacceptable and it is abuse.
2- wondering wtf? realising that I cannot change the (bad) decisions i made so I will just have to accept them. and also accept that just because I made bad choices does not mean I deserved it.
3- learning from those decisions and deciding although I made the wrong decisions in the past, I can make different decision in the future and I need to build better boundaries and value myself more.
4- realising I am ok. I am an ok person. sometimes I am even quite impressive.

I still have a lot of things to work out though as recent events have made clear. I need to recalibrate to more normal behaviour and the way normal people/men behave. what normal relationships are like.

Warning long post as so much to catch up on!

Very ? welcome to the thread. It?s sad we are all here but least we have each other

That?s ? well that?s typical I guess not having your needs taken into account. Do you think maybe he?s trying to isolate you? Maybe feeling threatened because the kids have meant you?d stay and now things need to change if that?s not the case.

Breathe ? thank you again. My sister has been brilliant, but yes, she doesn?t get how I?m in this state. She thinks alot of me and can?t see why I would lower myself to him. She also is very worried that he?ll come back and I will go back. That?s not a likelihood at all ? he?s happy now and he?s flicked the switch to hating me for reasons I cannot fathom so she has no worries on that front.

No regrets ? must read my shitlist then seeing as I?m feeling weak. My problem at the moment is that I don?t care about any of those things. I think they are weird, odd yes, but I find it impossible to feel hurt, even though some of them hurt at the time.

Charlotte ? yes yes you have to ?click? with your counsellor, it?s so important that you have the right one that gets your situation. Yours might not be great with EA. Mine is wonderful, she always looks horrified by my FW. I?m not sure if that?s professional or not but I think any mental health professional should be horrified by EA.

Notso ? hope your DD is ok. How stressful.

Pegwin ? regarding being dumped...well I don?t think I ever would have finished with him tbh. I knew him leaving was the only way it was going to end. But yes I?m pissed off he?s living his life merrily, shagging his new gf. Meanwhile, I?m more fed up than ever, my family are in pain having to watch me in pain. I know he doesn?t have a solid gold cock...but I suppose my mindset at the moment, he might as well because I now can?t imagine feeling attracted to anyone else (even though I did get it on with a girl recently...)

Alice ? sounds like you are firing on all cylinders! Your post about the good and bad resonated with me. I will try and bear that in mind, e.g. often felt alive and exhilarated by FW but yes he scared me too.

Fairy ? thank you for the handholding. I really need it at the moment.

I had counselling yesterday, first time in a while. I haven?t been able to afford it while I?ve had FW to support. He also used to make me late when I did go, go ?oh poor you, must be hard being able to afford counselling? or say that paying a human being for emotional support was like paying for sex (which incidentally he vacillated between saying it?s disgusting to pay for sex, to asking me to pretend to be a prostitute to telling one of our friends he was going to visit a dominatrix ? as if he had the money, though I knew he liked the idea of it). Anyway, it was somewhat helpful but never long enough. Made a few revelations. Mainly that my mum?s family are vile and at 15 I made a conscious decision to get the hell away from them all ? mum, grandparents, aunts etc. They are all grandiose, narcissistic FWs. They love drama, prone to mindgames with each other, walk in and out of each others lives. It was very very easy to ditch them. The irony that I?m pining for FW ? also grandiose, narcisstic, lover of drama (if I tell you he found 9/11 exciting that should say it all), plays mindgames etc ? is not lost.

I still cannot accept he?s gone, that I won?t see him or hear from him again...and I can?t see that as a positive thing. I wish I could move forward from this headspace ? it is hurting my sister so much (I know it?s not about her and she hasn?t said it in so many words, but I know she truly loves me and I know how she must be feeling because I?d feel the same if it were the other way around). I feel like I've moved back a step tbh.

I need to recalibrate to more normal behaviour and the way normal people/men behave. what normal relationships are like.
^^This definitely.

he said to me that I need to try harder to make him happy

If nothing else, THIS needs to be addressed. First and foremost, be very clear. You are not responsible for his happiness.

Wise words alice.

I think I maybe need to write a list of all the bad stuff about our relationship and all the stuff P did over the years. It might help me to accept how bad things really were, and to remove my very shiny rose tinted spectacles.

I'm resisting writing it for some reason, I think I barely know where to start, it all feels a bit petulant and I've spent so long being told I should leave it all in the past that I feel guilty for bringing it up.

www.tor.com/blogs/2013/05/joss-whedon-commencement-speech-transcript-2013-wesleyan

not entirely relevant but very inspiring.

I have gone round and round in my head over this happiness thing. Yes, H's behaviour was making me unhappy, and his behaviour was unacceptable. But ultimately I am responsible for my own happiness. If I'm not happy, I need to take steps to fix it. In my case, initially it was to insist that H show acceptable behaviour. As it became increasingly obvious that he wouldn't, and believe me, it took me years to get to this point, I guess my responsibility to my happiness was to take control of my life and separate from him.

I've found I'm much more relaxed with the DCs (as I'm not constantly stressed that something they say or do might set him off). And I'm eating more sensibly. (we'll hope that good exercise will follow )

Pegwin I like this that you said:

realising I am ok. I am an ok person. sometimes I am even quite impressive

I'm definitely going to remember that. I think it's important. I feel like I spent the last few years losing little pieces of myself all over the place - just being chipped away bit by bit. It whittled away at my self-confidence, my motivation, my relationship with my children. All of it. I heard people saying on here about spaghetti head or something similar, and now I know what was meant.

Colin if I may ask, what do you think it is about him that makes you push aside all the bad feelings? (I've asked myself the same question, but for me I think it came down to not wanting to believe that he thought so little of me and the DCs that he couldn't be bothered to be kind) Don't you think you're worth it or deserving of happiness? (I think I've tied a lot of guilt into it, myself, so I wondered if others do as well - that feeling that somehow you've caused it - even though I realise it's a conditioned response)

alice that I'm obsessed with him/addicted I think, that the highs are high I guess, that my love for him outweighs my feelings for myself. I don't think I'm worth very much, I didn't before I met him, and still I don't now and while many of his opinions are utterly bonkers/wrong, without approval from him life somehow feels meaningless (and I never fully got the approval I craved, but even not striving for it is a hole enough). I feel really pathetic saying that, but that genuinely is how I feel today. I have an army of friends and family telling me that I'm wonderful and beautiful. But knowing that he doesn't see me that way and never did renders what they say meaningless. God I am such a loser!

Colin that's really difficult, I can see where you are struggling with it. I agree that it is ironic that you find it difficult to let him go when he sounds so much like your mum and her family. You're not a loser. You've been through a lot and it's going to take some time to sort through it all and come out the other side healthier and happier.

I've just had a flashback (inspired by another thread actually) of us at a restaurant. We were sat outside, it was a hot day and there were some kids (probably about 7 or 8) messing around with waterballoons and we got a little bit splashed, but not much and he told them off. It was really really horrible, he was horrible. I can't remember what he said but it wasn't a reasonable 'do you mind not doing that?'. I just sat there in disbelief. What a horrible man. And to think all this morning I've been feeling profoundly sad about not having a family with him. Talk about reality check.

I've had those experiences (not many in public, as H was careful not to do so) and I just remember standing there with my mouth dropped at the suddenness of it (and the humiliation). Definitely a reality check. Whenever I waver, I need to remind myself of that.

I'm picturing that episode of Friends with Ben Stiller where he's a psycho (quite low level compared to FWs) and they all stand in shock at him shouting at the chick and the duck.