Support for those in Emotionally Abusive relationships:22

[foolonthehill]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
a check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violenceAre you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

what couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
should I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

FairyFi we actually had that happen re DD (she was 18 at the time) and FW bf. We had to bite our tongues repeatedly (this was back when H was not EA) and not say anything. She came to stay with us for a few weeks (even though he was against it) and I think that gave her the time needed to think clearly and see how he was behaving. She dumped him. (he tried the stalker psycho bf routine at that point, which only made her more determined to stay away from him)

I think the "missing him" doesn't go away for a long time. I'm trying to remind myself when I start feeling that way that I miss his good behaviour, but that the bad behaviour comes along with the good. So far, so good. It was so hard to make that break though - no way am I going to undo it. I think the biggest stresses about the split was telling people - dealing with people's reactions to it. Either uncomfortable or feeling sorry for you or shocked or (worse yet) asking why (and expecting an answer!). But it hasn't been nearly as stressful (looking back over the past few days) as the ongoing EA was. No more eggshells.

H's being quite agreeable. He has acknowledged this is a permanent split, promised not to do anything to cause problems for me or the children, and will pay what I think is fair for child maintenance. He's also agreed to split remaining bills and pay his half. His comment was "look, we're obviously better apart, and we need to be in contact regularly due to the children, so let's just try to remain friends and be civil to make it easier on the children." While I'm thrilled, obviously, I'm pleasantly surprised. Here's hoping it continues. He's even respected boundaries when he came to pick up some of his stuff by knocking, instead of using the house key (which he is giving back to me when we next see each other for the DCs visit). It's like having the "old" him back again, which is nice (sad that it took us splitting for it to show up again, but nice to deal with nice him and not mean him).

Meanwhile, I've managed to get a bunch cleaned, spent hours reorganising benefits, bills, direct debits, etc today. I'm exhausted, but a good exhausted IYSWIM.

And lest you think I'm rhapsodising too much.... my nose is plugged up, my 3yo wiped a bit of poo on the bathroom wall (can we say eewwwww?), and now he's napping, so he'll be up late tonight.

There's a bit in Lundy where he says that we can sometimes focus on some small change for the better, and not realise that this still leaves an unacceptable situation, but because it's better than it was we are so happy that it's less miserable (although still miserable)

yup it is just rearranging the parsley garnish on your greasy bloater

I am a friend of Bernard and mink IYKWIM.

been lurking but I couldn't resist a bloater gag (or indeed gagging at a bloater) (welcome and apologies to the new arrivals if that made no sense it is from thread 16 or so- a FW is like being served a greasy bloater (in a nice sauce) when you ordered something entirely different off the menu)

colin i suspect that you are mostly hurting because he not only had the gall to treat you badly but he didn't even give you the satisfaction of finishing him so you are left miserable while he gets to walk off scot free with a new gf leaving you damaged. (so it is more pain at the unfairness than actually loss) in fact he is not happy with new gf. he is a FW and they are by definition never happy. and you would never be truly happy with him. the difference is, now he has gone you have the potential to be happy in the future.

don't look back at him, looks forwards to someone nice. remember he does not have a solid gold cock. and you could go on to ahve a wonderful life with children adn everything just to spite him

bounty re texts- one of them mentioned rubber duckwit did it not? that is not a friend. that is bath=naked=a lot more than friends (sorry) also the rule is for your OH having friends of the same gender as you: if they won't introduce them to you they have something to hide. I have lots of male friends. they would all happily come to my house and look my ex in the eye (when we were together) as they and I had nothing to hide and my friends are my partners friends IYSWIM (now obviously they all think he is a twunt). whereas FW used to try to keep me and his female friends apart. so if she is just a friend then she can be your friend too or at least me you. but as you know that is not the point. he is a FW and a liar.

charlotte boo at dcs sore ear. earache is the pits. i second the alternating between calpol and brufen and trying hot waterbottles can work, also olbas oil.

catherine you could maybe say that you had heard that there is a really good book (Lundy) that might help.

I saw my FW in a social situation the other day, all perfectly pleasant, even quite amusing but realised that I kept sidling away from him whenever he came near me that the smell of him now totally freaks me out.

and finally yy to the minimising...how many times have we caught ourselves doing it even on here.

to say well done Alice. glad he is behaving. long may it continue. buy yourself some lovely freedom flowers. I still have fresh flowers all the time as i have had ever since I kicked FW into touch. and strangely it makes a difference.

yup it is just rearranging the parsley garnish on your greasy bloater

sorry but that just made me laugh so much!!

pegwin I like flowers, but the DCs are small and tend to pick at them (knock them over, depetal them lol). But my "freedom thing" is to get the house looking lovely and finished - paint, decorations, small homely touches. I am already making lists.

Pegwin x here Alice for small DC x

Charlotte hope your DD is feeling better and you've managed some sleep. My DD has been admitted to hospital poor girl. Bloods were clear so they don't know what the problem is so in for observations while she continually cries
DP has been good but has left because he's stressed

NotSoNervous oh no! I hope she's doing much better very quickly!!

Oh no, NotSo! Hope they work out what's wrong with her and start to get her feeling better soon. Poor LO!

Love that greasy bloater comment; it's a classic!

Alice, could your post-split FW talk to mine, do you think? I think he could learn a lot about taking it graciously - even if it is because he thinks you'll want him back by the end of the week!

Hi Snoopy; welcome.

Counselling individual sessions today. Much as expected. Can't really give the whole flavour of a relationship in an hour and talk about the future, too. But I don't need to convince her it's right for me to leave, do I? And I did convince her that my mind was made up. She tried quite hard to change my mind, just to see how determined I was - so I came away feeling she thought I was making a mistake, feeling a little bruised.

Oh. Have you heard this? She says Relate do now do counselling for couples in relationships with DV. And from the way she said it, the sort of counselling to help you make a stronger marriage. fool, what's your take on that? Anyone else? Have you heard that?

Notso (((hugs)) for strength and to hear something to lessen the worry soon...

This Charlotte She tried quite hard to change my mind - WOT! who, that knows anything about DV would try to even intimate that you should go back!!! does she have any idea how long it took you to get out..... run for the hills !!! (is my own opinion)... I know that couples can get counselling to separate as well as stay together, but I heard that they wouldn't do couples with DV, maybe thats changed. Mine [relate couns] read the riot act, definitions of DV, FW wouldn't go back.

That sounds like a rough ride Charlotte xx

nsn really hope your DD is getting better and they find what is wrong. Good news that the bloods are clear but must be v worrying. Are you staying in with her?

alice I'm mentally decorating and furnishing my house and I'm not even out yet. but I know how much I'm going to enjoy living in pleasant environment

Hmm.. Relate does counselling for couples with DV to help make a stronger marriage? Is that really possible?

Charlotte I'm as boggled by H's demeanor as you are. Honestly. I'm glad, obviously, as it makes things so much easier. We discussed child maintenance, and I asked him what he thought was a good figure, and he gave me a figure that was just under what the online calculator showed for his income. I think I will tell him that the amount on the online calculator will be best. It's not much more, but to me, it's the idea that I'm 24/7 with the DCs and paying for everything (even if it is mostly benefits), so as he's not got the day-to-day responsibility he should be pushing the envelope slightly to help pay for their needs. Does that make sense? If I'm going to be tired and working my bum off to make sure they're okay, then I think it's only fair he should be working harder to make sure they're supported as well.

I think its important not to feel its hard work, far from that.. fully supported and better understood by them than you.. is that the sense you got... I'm sorry hun... xx

charlotte I'm a bit at your counsellor too. Was she trying to make you feel stronger in your decision do you think? It seems slightly mean tactics though. I know I only need one throw away comment from someone who knows nothing about what's going on in my life to make me feel shaky about my decisions again.

Charlotte I'm sorry the counselling left you feeling bruised. I sometimes feel upset/unsettled after mine but only because of painful realisations not because of challenges. Remember if the counsellor isn't working for you, you can ask for a different one.

I'm that they're offering couples counselling when there's DV. I think I mentioned before we tried couples counselling and it was horrendous. (actually we've tried it twice and the Relate counsellor didn't challenge nsdh at all but the other counsellor did. Strangely enough the latter sessions weren't bruising at all to me but nsdh just made promises he didn't keep and resorted to criticising the counsellor's training )

pony I was thinking about writing my own shitlist. This will probably sound mad but I've been keeping a note of some incidents in an AIBU style, trying to work out if it's me or him. I might make a list in a quieter place on here.

notso your poor dd, and poor you. It's such a worry when they're ill. I hope they discover what is wrong and she feels better soon.

But I don't need to convince her it's right for me to leave, do I? And I did convince her that my mind was made up. She tried quite hard to change my mind, just to see how determined I was - so I came away feeling she thought I was making a mistake, feeling a little bruised.

Charlotte Oh my. I read that, but didn't click for some reason that it was your counsellor that you were talking about. (very thick emoticon here) Absolutely she handled that wrong IMO. My understanding is that their job is not to do that type of thing - it's so damaging!! She can't be that well versed in DV, can she? Anyone who was who know how long it really takes for women to reach a point where they can actually commit to a decision to leave and usually longer then to actually leave. She could set someone back months!! And in the process, actually place someone in danger.

For record... no, you shouldn't need to convince her it's right for you to leave. Hell, even if there was NO DV, you have every right to leave a relationship if you are unhappy for whatever reason. I'm quite cross on your behalf here.

It's all rather weird with the counselling, isn't it? I didn't warm to her much, but it's only one more session, so we'll see. She said that the DV couples counselling was done with a long checklist ( oh right that'll be fine then) and very strict provisos about risk of PA. WTF? I said it wasn't PA that scared me; I was much more scared by the EA. She was a bit "yes yes I can see that" but tbh she was doing that reflection thing the whole way through: "What I think you're saying is..." and it annoyed me!

Oh, she also said I seemed quite strong. As though it was a criticism: well, it can't be DV or at least that bad if you're still standing.

Quite surprised but pleased by your responses. I was quite destabilised by it all, so I was worried it wasn't real abuse (yet again!!) although - progress!! - I still thought I'm outta here anyway!

charlotte I keep worrying that it's not real abuse too.

Charlotte I don't know if you remember, but a few weeks ago, my DC's paediatrician made some passing comment about H seeming calm and relaxed to her when I had finally told her about his behaviour, she even put it in one of the reports, even though I had specifically explained that this behaviour was never in front of others only when we were home alone. It felt like a massive slap in the face to me... a big "Well, I don't believe you because look he's not shouting in the office." It really demoralised me, and I crawled right back in my shell and was in a really bad place for a few weeks after that.

It's really the same thing, isn't it? Making you doubt your own feelings and perceptions - like rewriting history - the same thing your FW is doing.

Exactly Charlotte! exactly, dangerous isn't it... talking to the supposed 'professionals' who don't own up to not knowing the deal.... and emoticons

Hi everyone, in the midst of it here, so in lurking mode, but just wanted to say, Charlotte, that my counsellor said straight up, if it is not working for you, you do not have to justify it, you have the right to leave.

Of course, you need to process it all in your head, and I think the point about abuse is you need to understand to prevent it happening again, but I found that really refreshing. She did not expect me to justify myself. But this is individual counselling, not couples counselling.

Glad to see pegwin, do give my regards to mink, have been wondering how she was doing.

Love and strength to everyone else.

For those who remember, I did go back and photograph the little garden I discovered.

I remember your lovely garden butterfly Now you can lok back on your photo when you need to feel calm and serene

Off to bed now as am exhausted. night night

butterfly I'm glad you photographed your garden. Now you can revisit your little oasis whenever you need reminding that there are brighter and calmer days ahead.
I compiled my shitlist and posted in the quieter place. There's so much more I could have written. I can't tell if that's because everything is bad or because I've lost all sense of perspective. I do know that there were some points I was too embarrassed to type . . .even anonymously . . .on the internet . . .that realisation made be feel quite sad.

hello again.
Charlotte that does round a but mince. I found that with one of my mh counsellors just did not get on. have even had the same with physios so.e you can work with others not. do you feel like you could ask for another?

butterfly glad you got a photo. i east in a beautiful garden the other day and thought of you and made sure i took a good mental image of it.

Alice. i did remember that. i was reading a thing about gas lighting today. it made me realise there was more to it than just the revising history and gist it went on more than I had realised. and after you have been through that you really don't need someone official undermining you. you are in a better place now.

anyway I am just in taking off my make up because I have been out at...the bingo.