Dating thread no 53

[Flipper924]

The Rules

1 Develop a thick skin;

1. Do not invest emotionally too soon;
2. It's all BS until it actually happens;
3. Trust your gut instinct;
4. If it is not fun, stop

Off we go...

Ooops, missed the previous posts..I'll just read.

Velvet, your experience with the abuse from your ex is awful. But I think when I said 'he would need to consistently show me through his actions who he is' is linked in with this. As you all know, I have also been in an abusive relationship, I would recognise the signs immediately now, and every time I chose not to trust my gut instinct I have felt like kicking myself.

The worst thing I think a woman could do, is to give too much of herself in a relationship...

I don't know, maybe it's different for some women. But I just know in MY experience, pursuing a man, and making 'him' central in my life, kills passion, and does not last long-term.

Actually I don't think most men do like strong, independent women. They like ones who are a bit independent, who are quite clever - but there aren't that many men who are secure enough in themselves to date a woman who is very independent and/ or better off financially, let alone more intelligent...

Maybe I have a fragile ego. I don't particularly want to get together with someone who I have to provide for financially. I don't want to be 'needed' in that sense. Part of me would wonder how much they like me for me, and how much for my bank balance. That's especially true over here where I've been told by several people that British guys are found highly desirable because generally they're much wealthier than local men, (and don't still live with their mum at the age of 30)

So I'm looking for someone who has their own job that they enjoy will understand that I like mine, and someone who can afford their own place will not need me to subsidise them. However, I do want to be needed in the old sense of emotional support, someone to talk about a bad day with, and I don't mind changing the odd lightbulb here and there.

Trying to find someone happy in their own life but wanting something more is tough - someone attractive and funny and not particularly crazy even more so. And if they're that desirable, other men will presumably be pursuing them too, so if I sit back and wait for them to contact me I'll never hear from them.

That's not to say I pursue them because I want to control them, I pursue them because I want to be with them and have to stand out, that's all.

Well I married a woman who earned more than I did, and had a PhD (I don't) - so that wasn't an issue with me. But I can see how it could be for some men who want to be more controlling than I do.

I have made big mistakes in my previous relationships. I am glad that at 26, I have finally woken up and smelled the coffee!

When I first started seeing my ex, I was strong, independent and often told (without sounding arrogant and I really hope it doesn't come across that way) I was stunning and I could get any man I wanted. Never had a problem with getting dates, or male interest, and I have never wanted the whole man providing for me thing....the idea of being a kept woman just makes me feel insecure.

Anyway, the fact that I had my 'shit' together didn't deter men from wanting to date me at all. I was unsuccessful with dating because I quickly lost my 'self' as the relationship progressed. I found myself moulding myself to what they wanted me to be. It is unattractive, and a turn-off and believe me when I say I have learnt my lesson now!!

Like I said, men don't want to feel like they are responsible for your happiness. Yes, a relationship involves an emotional connection, and being able to reciprocate love and affection, but they don't want to feel like you have no life without them.

Just my opinion of course, like I said I have made my mistakes but I certainly wont be making them again.

I completely agree with you rose

EternalRose I think I strongly disagree with your post. Mainly because I think any man who thinks someone "liking" them on an OD site amounts to chasing is a moron who reads way too much meaning into the click of a mouse.

I frequently 'like' men, got a lot of likes or messages back and it leads to dates. If I didn't do this I'd barely hear from anyone who I wanted to hear from. Maybe it's a demographic thing, but there are huge numbers of people on these sites, a lot of people can't be bothered to put in the leg work, so I am simply not going to get noticed if I sit around and wait for people to come to me.

Bant raises an interesting point, and I have wondered whether some of the people I like first go through with a date with me just for the sake of dating. But then isn't that why we meet up with anyone? Unless you're over-investing, it's always just taking a informed punt.

I suppose I subscribe to the let him chase rules to some extent as I don't initiate the first meet ups. But if I like someone I've got no qualms about suggesting a second date it just turns out that there have been hardly any I've wanted to see again who weren't already keen. I'm very aware that every long-term relationship I've had has started from a situation where my boyfriend assumed I didn't actually like him. I'd rather make it clear that I am a little interested than have nothing happen because he's assumed I'm not keen.

As Snape says, rejection really isn't that bad so putting yourself out there a little isn't going to kill you. Again, anyone who thinks a "that was fun, let's do that again" text is coming on too strong is an idiot.

I suppose I'm just confident enough that I'm never going to come across as too keen and needy because it's just not in my nature to be keen and needy. I'm comfortable letting a few cracks show in the ice queen veneer though! There are enough things about me for a man who is easily intimidated to be intimidated without me bloody texting him. I suppose I'm looking for someone with the emotional nuance to realise that I can be ballsy and self-sufficient, but would still like someone to do the big strong man thing at the end of a tough week. OD has made me realise that there is a very limited pool of people out there who are really what I'm looking for, so I'm not that bothered about whittling away a few more on the basis that they need to feel like Prince Charming.

Many x-posts, I mean your original post Eternal Rose.

And I so hear you on the job front Bant. I freaking love my job, it is a large part of who I am and I probably put in way too much overtime at the moment. To me it just feels like a big psychological gulf when I meet up with people who moan about what they do and clearly just do it to pay the bills. All my exes have been very driven and into what they do to an unhealthy degree and I think this is one element of my 'type' that I probably can't change.

ALittleStranger I respect your opinion, I guess it's different strokes for different folks..

I feel indifferent about dating, and to be honest I hope that feeling persists. This is why I am not going to spend time that I could be spending on working on myself, scouring for hours and hours searching for men online, liking, winking, emailing. Just no. I don't want to look at every man I meet as a potential partner, because the reality is, a lot of them wont be good enough. I really hope this doesn't offend anyone, just expressing my personal feelings on the matter. Do what works for you and makes you happy.

So, it will come as no surprise that I don't care if I don't meet anyone now. If I do, and he turns out to be good enough for me, great. If not, I will be alright anyway as I have plenty to get on with in my life. Losing this well known fantasy of sailing off into the sunset and living happily ever after is what its all about for me!

Anyway, I still enjoy reading all of your updates as they get me through my long nights at work.
x

Dating in your early/mid 20s is very different from dating in your late 30s/40s though. Most twenty somethings are single, its very different 15 years on, and the smaller the pool the harder you have to work to find a decent one.

Re jobs, not quite sure where all these high earning men who appreciate career women - whilst C values what I do, his earnings are a fraction of mine. I've never been on a date, or even got into a conversation with a degree educated man via OD, nor one who earns more than me. And the majority were, or had the potential to be, decidedly snippy about career women, high earners etc...

Velvet, I have been on dates with lawyers, barristers, accountants, doleys the lot.

As soon, as I started showing them that I would drop my original plans to see them, or was a bit too accommodating, texts started becoming more infrequent etc..

My mum has the same mindset, and she is 50 (widowed) and single. Only this time I have decided to listen to what she has to say.

Did you say you have had lots of first dates, and then they didn't go any further?

Velvet I find that pretty staggering about the lack of degrees. Do you think that's an age thing? stares bleakley at the future.

rose yes in 4 years (until I met C) of OD I never got beyond a first date. In most of those I played completely by the rules - they all messaged me first, arranged the date (at a time to suit me, sometimes waiting a few weeks because I was buay), waited for them to contact me post date...and nothing. C is the first one I have actively pursued, and the only one I have had any success with. So for me, it seems to work.

Totally agree with you Velvet

Any man my age will have been through a long term relationship failure, at least once. They will prob have a child or 4. They may have been hurt - either by the ex or circumstances. Just like the women of my age. Very different to most 20 somethings

Some men are so insecure that if the women is brighter or has a better job, they feel threatened. Arseholes that think someone intitiating contact is chasing - all are just arseholes. I'm not going to dumbdown for someone, nor will I hide my independent self. Take MrCM - he called everything off as he deemed my contact too much. My contact was answering his questions - sometimes as they came in as my phone is always on my desk/in my pocket due to work/family. Rarely text him first. He now agrees my contact wasn't too much - I am very wordy, so if you ask me how my weekend went - you will get 4 or 5 sentences and no text speak. I totally walked away and guess who is texting me more than ever. I will not be playing his game. He wants control, then go control someone else. I will carry on being wordy and polite by not leaving any message unanswered for a long period of time as that is who I am.

It's sad so many old fashioned views are still flourishing.

I do agree that a partner should fit in to your life though and my life will not be changing for anyone

Velvet: That's strange. I hope you don't mind me asking you this question because I am genuinely interested. But when you are on these dates, have you ever found yourself talking about the fact that you are an independent woman, very successful, what you earn, got your own house etc...?

guardian article on OD

it's not just us. predictably the first comment is to lower her expectations...

Velvet - I'm kind of the opposite to you. I think 90% of the women I've been on OD dates with have either had degrees or been studying them. I've said before I tend to go for people who have a similar background to me, which reduces the number a bit but I think it has greater potential to have something in common.

This is not to say, before I get flamed again, that I think people without a degree are less intelligent or cultured or something, just that I find it easier to talk to people with more in common.

If someone has only high school education down on their profile, I'm really not likely to contact them, no matter how attractive they are. I just don't think it's as likely to work.

If they have a very witty and nice profile description, though, then maybe I would.

ER - I hope you aren't about to start pointing out the reason Velvet was unsuccessful for 4 years was her fault???

As someone who was on the threads for the last few years, I can promise you, Velvet didn't do anything wrong or unusual. She is attractive and successful. She was chased and chased and the the fuckwits messed her about. Not because there was anything wrong with Velvet or that she did anything wrong - it was because they were fuckwits!

I find it hilarious that someone mid twenties has all the answers, let alone someone that isn't even dating! Come back in twenty years and then tell us how it is for you

I think you can disregard what happens before you meet when considering a man's responses tbh, although for some it has worked out fine e.g Juliette and a few others. Rule 3 everyone.

Rose, mums know best .

Velvet, I haven't had the same experiences as you as I am not a high earner. I have my own place and am financially independent but would prefer someone in the same boat, money wise. All the better if he earns a little more. I can understand how it is for you and doubt I would meet men to match my earnings if I was in the similar career to yourself.

In my day, only around 5% of people went to university, so it wouldn't cross my mind to even think if a guy has a degree or not.

Cellophane - I don't think Rose was saying anything of the sort. She's asking interested questions and isn't acting like she knows all the answers. She says she's worked out what doesn't work for her, and is asking other people's experiences to get a take on why it hasn't worked for them.

MsCellophane - I am not in any position to point out the faults of anyone. I sure have plenty of my own I was simply trying to see if her approach to dating could be changed maybe? I don't know really, was trying to help. I never said I had all the answers, I have made a lot of mistakes and I have learnt from them. I find your post to be very patronising..it's like saying someone of my age couldn't possibly know anything worthwhile when it comes to dating. I already said it was my mum who has given me a lot of this 'tuition' and she is 50.

Anyway, changing the subject. Can we talk about the Doctor Who series finale?

[Must start watching Doctor Who]

Looking forward to the next series of Breaking Bad though...

It's a lovely day, must get off laptop and take DD to the beach.