Support thread for those in emotionally abusive relationships...coming of age:21

[foolonthehill]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
a check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violenceAre you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

what couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
should I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

Thanks bounty, yes I do still get hit by waves of sadness and doubt...hopefully they will get less and less with time.

Tweedlezee you sound exactly like me. Trying and trying - same, no holidays, no dates, no affection, no empathy. You give and give and get nothing. It is so hard. I've got 3 kids. It's not worth staying together for the kids. They see nothing but tension. And somehow I too am the one to blame for it all. Stay strong. I too feel sad that we could not be a family. It's bollocks. But we'll get there! Plan for yourself and the kids like I am. Handholding on here and support from friends. We can do it!

Hi all. Been a while since I posted here. Good to see that some of you are working hard to put all the heartache and cruelty behind you & getting the kind of lives you deserve ( calm and free).
I am with my fw, but the scales have well and truly fallen from my eyes & I am becoming increasingly aware of his mind games.
He has been vile toward me today, but I figured our why. I recently got a better paid job & my dc has got to the age where she is more or less independent. In his sad, narrowed minded mind he thinks I am planning on leaving him because I have no ties to him anymore. He thinks I'm with him for his money, which is hilarous as he has only had a job for the last year & was out of work for the rest of the 2 decades I've known him. So he's hardly bloody donald trump!
Whilst he was calling me vile names & telling me what a burden I was to him I just kept thinking 'whatever'. He can call me what he likes, I am beginning to like myself, I am starting to see that not the crazy, selfish person he tells me I am.
I haven't left yet, but I know I'm going in the right direction.
Love to u all.

Montessorisam iam really glad to have found this thread (thank you ColinCaterpillar) the info on it has really made me understand where i am at. i just keep thinking how grateful i am that he hasn;t broken me.
It's not worth staying together for the kids. They see nothing but tension it's true, there is alot of tension. they are not seeing the person i really am and they are not seeing the return on 'niceness'. i am nice, he is horrid, i am upset, he says i am mad, i threaten to leave, he is nice. so they think that its the threats that make people love you. it is not, nice = nice = love = happy. that is all i have ever known through my life, he has twisted all i have ever known and created this reality that he controls. We can do it indeed!!!

I love the William Gibson quote, colin

Hello all, support to all.

Trying to get my head in shape to post. But I'm reading the posts and nodding and hand holding

mrsM as my counsellor says, "put the stick down" lovely . We'd have to be superhuman to swan through this, it's hugely complex and you are edging your way forward in the way you can, which is great. Like we all are - we can only do it the way we can IYSWIM.

tweedle I've just read your thread and so much of what you say resonates with me. Well done for telling your Dad. When I told my parents it was like a weight was lifted off my shoulders. My FW is exactly the same about my parents - he does not like them, picks faults in them, will not have them in the house. Apparantly they try to control me!!!!!!! I second telling your friends. they sound supportive and it sounds like they won't see him as a diamond at all but as the FW that he is. I have read before about children in EA 'adoring' daddy, but that is because even at a tiny age they have learnt that it pays for them to appear to adore him. If he is a good Dad he will still see plenty of his DC and they won't be exposed to a nasty home atmosphere.

Oh and massive good luck for the job interview. I think that would really help with the old self esteem which is probably pretty low just now.

gottachange whart a lovely strong positive forward looking post :) Once those scales have gone and you start to detach ("whatever" is a great reply to almost all FWitery) things are soooo much clearer

Lemon, no family planning clinic in my town. Looking at getting the MAP (no idea it was so expensive) via the local pharmacy, which is a late-opening one. FW is working late, however, so no idea when he'll be home and I no-one to keep an ear out for DD, who's asleep. Can try and get there in the morning which means being late for work.

Hope you manage nini

Thanks Colin

...aaaaand he's home. Just heard him yelling at someone outside as he parked up. What a lovely chap.

helloooo all lovely ladies... I've only had a chance to have a v. quick skim of the latest FWittery.. hugs to all, especially newcomers going through the shock and gradual realisation of it all.

I've been flat out working through intense emo with DD, plus her sickness and up through night in lots of pain, and today I started trying to get an invoice sent, and I only managed it by about 3 this afternoon, having spent the day having to reconfigure all my emails, then sort through the mess of 000's of them all pouring in from all over, and losing them ...arrrggghhh... now peace reigns, but i'm completely knackered [again] but I WILL make it to FP tomorrow.

Was very touched by ArAf(?) asking for ways to help his DP.. I just wanted to say that you have been honoured with this sharing of her emotions, she obviously feels very safe with you, keep doing the same, giving her space and time to keeping going. Theres this ... when you're in hell, keep walking....

It does end, follow her lead, she needs to be in control of her life whilst dealing with this, as much as she can. To feel respected, and free to express herself. Its surely very hard to watch.

Tears yesterday at the shocking news of the girls abductions (the girl who was 14, and her mother died 3 years later, never saw her mum or her mum not knowing she made it out in the end).

Nini so hoping its all ok for you tonight hun. xx

thinking of you Fly lovely (break that stick and bin it )

Pony so hope that nursery went ok all round (hugs) xx

lots of love to all here tonight and not xxx

have to go to bed, sore eyeeeeeess....

Good luck Nini. I know that sinking feeling when their car pulls up....:(

Hey Fi - hope DD is doing better now. You are doing a brilliant job with her I think, you seem so patient and understanding. Now go to bed!!!!!

Wow this thread moves so fast! I keep trying to catch up and failing. In the meantime, I am still doing a lot of sifting and posting bits more in the quieter place to try and get to the bottom of was it abusive, just bad luck, or me.

I miss him :(

On dads earlier today- mine never mimicked but exp did and it just enraged me, what a disgusting thing to do to someone, so belittling.

My dad used to rant, rave, and generally lose the plot in some extraordinary ways. I think my concept of normal behaviour runs a very long continuum. I tend to be very lenient towards flawed individuals.

On cognitive dissonance, it is so very, very, very tiring to have to carry two contradictory realities in your head at the same time. I am still doing it and it's exhausting.

Last night, I had a sad conversation with ds who doted on exp. I said that some people were great on the outside, but maybe not kind, and not so great on the inside- he said 'why can't we just turn those people inside out?' Lovely, darling boy! If only we could- it would make everything far easier :)

2013go awwww, your DS sounds lovely. how old is he? My DS1 (now 7) often says such similar, caring things, makes your heart melt and break all at the same time!
You're right, it's completely exhausting trying to come to terms with two contradictory realities. That's part of why you miss him maybe, that part of the reality that has him as the lovely partner and father misses him. I was the same with my FW - I still do miss him, sometimes especially when he's being nice and reasonable, grr. It will maybe never go away, but the longer you are out it will hopefully become easier to deal with.

pony yep, my ds is 7 too, it's a fab age! It was a sad conversation as I was trying to explain he may not see exp for a while- I couldn't say forever because I didn't want to upset him too much, so I said he's gone abroad for a really long time.
What just enrages me is the way exp was his very best for the dcs and really charmed them, yet... went off in moods if I dared mention exh, leaving me hanging about in the park wondering where he had gone and if he was coming back..... called ds 'rude' for not saying goodnight to him once- actually, he did say goodnight after prompting but had thought he hadn't needed to as he'd see exp in the morning.... said that he was ending it because he wanted his own dcs, not 'someone else's'... and oh yeah, subjected me to a sick fantasy and put his hands on my neck while the dcs were sleeping next door, knowing I couldn't stop him for fear of a scene in front of them.
Yet to ds, exp was the best fun, the loveliest person, a great buddy. And I just couldn't bring myself to disillusion him :(
Thank god we never had a child!!!
colin what you said over this really struck home- imagining the future.... yes, FW would be there, you'd always have the bond of the dcs....but it would be like George Orwell says in 1984 'a boot stamping on your face forever'.
There would have been the odd, glorious and shining moment. The rest of the time we'd have had our faces rubbed in the sh*t.

Good point well timed 2013 - nighttime is here and I am missing him so much right now. Amazing I couldn't see the good when we were together and now it's all I can think of. I have to read posts on here or my shitlist. I wonder when I will stop wishing his return at night time

2013go - are you me???? Are you, in fact, married to my FW? He sounds v similar... 7 is such a strange age for boys, so grown up in many ways but still not too old for a lap cuddle. I had to have a similar conversation with DS1, but it was because FW has chosen not to see him any more (he was his step-dad). DS1 adored/hero-worshipped FW, even though he knew he behaved badly to both me and him. Hope your DS is coping ok with it all.

Colin, maybe you could identify the times when you know you'll feel bad - eg night-time - and plan to distract yourself in some way? I know what you mean, I still struggle a bit with evenings, the thought of going to bed on my own etc and lying there trying to get to sleep, inevitably going back over stuff... I have formed myself a new thought in my head, it's a wee fantasy thought about meeting a nice bloke and how all that will happen, etc. It helps me drop off and gives me something else to focus on. and gives me saucy dreams!!

That's me for the night, I think. DS2 is a bit feverish and unsettled, so am going to head for bed while the going is good.

g'night. xx

Hello, everyone. So much going on here! Have read through and want to say a little to everyone... but am really short of advice and wise words and in any case am permanently ill since returning from holiday three weeks ago and am knackered! Must go to bed!

It is now 5 weeks since I was hooooovered back in after a 3-week separation. I have re-read most of Lundy and re-convinced myself he is abusive (FW, not Lundy :o ) and what's more, he's not really changing. And am now reading the book about narcissists that Wobbly always recommends, to see if there's anything there that can help me stay with him without going mad.

FP is starting up again tomorrow, which I'm insanely pleased about. (Sanity or lack thereof is becoming a theme!!)

Oh, and I met two lovely therapists today who could do some useful work with ds. Talked and talked to them and they seemed very competent.

BUT they asked if I'd considered going to Relate!

Not great timing when I'd only just started believing again that he is abusive! Feels like people are saying this to me repeatedly. Face-palm on way home, suddenly realising all I need to say is: "I believe Relate doesn't deal with abusive relationships." That's true, isn't it?

Hi Curtis I still lurk most days but my life three years after leaving my FW is so happy and normal I don't often feel that raw pain and hurt that comes through on here. After the HUGE effort to leave and the fear, anger and sorrow I went through I am now out in the sunshine. For ArAf (who I thought was a she, not that it matters) the answer is just like people said, be kind to your DP and show her how a relationship should be. Mutual respect and consideration. I have been lucky enough to meet a lovely man who dotes on me and being with him is a constant delight.
But even now I have days when I wake up astounded that I had the courage to get out and horrified that I broke up my family and hurt my DC so much. Even now I don't see them enough as they have a base with FW in our old home which he lives in. I wonder if it was really that bad, did I imagine it all to justify my bad behaviour, was I really the difficult one with the midlife crisis like he says? Meanwhile he, being a narc, has found a new admiring lady who gives him what he needs and understands him as I never could or would.
Coming back here keeps me grounded and stops me minimising and denying.
It also warms the heart to see you all travelling along the road to enlightenment. Colin you are amazing! A week ago you were still in the FOG. Now you are giving excellent advice to others! Well done!! Go you!!!
Hugs to all and keep strong

I want to post but I can't. So very angry that I can't.

I really miss you all

Nothing specific BTW, so don't panic. I just miss the mental offload and the banter