Support thread for those in emotionally abusive relationships...coming of age:21

[foolonthehill]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
a check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violenceAre you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

what couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
should I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

pony yes, I think it probably was deliberate and then he can moan about stuff not being done or the house being messy . . .Good luck for nursery tomorrow. Fingers crossed it goes well. My ds just started last term and his first day was fine. Second day not so good but he absolutely loves it now.

Hey everyone.

Interesting reading about abusive fathers on the thread. Breathe my experience was similar to yours. I have a better relationship with my Dad now but I do get flashbacks of being hit and screamed at. One very small incident I always remember - I was about 10 I think and after being yelled at for something I went to cry in my room. I was crying to myself that 'nobody loves me' and then he let himself in and started mocking me by mimicing. It was horrible. . He's also the reason I have hoarding issues as he used to go into my room and throw my things away if he thought I was being untidy.

Anyway. Hope DS' nursery induction goes ok today Curtis and everyone has a good day.

Been having some interesting thoughts about cognitive dissonance based on listening to yet another r4 program (no i don't actually work for r4)

All in the mind- talking about the doomsday cult who believed the world was going to end. the documentary maker watched them when the world was supposed to end and it didn't they had two different reactions:
some realise they had made a mistake and deal with it others deny the evidence e.g. it will happen later, the date was wrong etc. (then eventually come to the realisation they made a mistake)

they said the more time they spent looking into it (i.e. investing in the idea) the harder it was to let go. so when the time came and nothing happened they suffer an enormous degree of cognitive dissonance

(bear with me!)

and the same is true of anything in life in which you invest a lot of energy. e.g. if you get involved in a whirlwind romance and it all seems great and then you go to the effort/expense of getting married it becomes much harder to turn around and say do you know what this was a bad idea. but not doing so causes a great deal of cognitive dissonance. you are forced to deny the evidence in order maintain the original premise that this was a good idea.

I think this applies well to minimising etc. if you have a lot invested in your relationship it is hard to leave so you try to force yourself into believing something which is not true- that this person loves you, only you understand them, that you cannot live without them, that if only you change... but as a consequence of underneath it all knowing it is wrong suffer a huge amount of dissonance (especially e.g. when fantasising about how nice it would be if they never came home again).

I know it definitely makes sense to me because I was living with that dissonance for years and looking for any scrap of evidence that it had not all been a hideous mistake and accentuating the tiniest positive whilst minimising the bad things.

anyway and interesting listen. there was also an episode on sleep disorder and the links to various mental illnesses and how if you treat the sleep problem it may do wonders for MH.

and also in the news- how freaked out am i by that whole Cleveland thing? Those poor women, that is going to take some getting over. but for them and their family that they are finally home when they must have been given up for lost.

There has been some very interesting commentary though from DV experts on how recovery takes place and how long it takes etc. in the wider context of DV and the importance of 1) not being defined by what has happened to you 2) not rushing to get over it without processing it.

long, long rambly post!

Nini
The mimicking thing is awful, FW used to do it to me, it's a really quick way to infantalise you and your feelings, while making you feel about an inch tall. For a dad to use it on his child is... staggering. Can completely understand why you've developed hoarding issues too. FW has done that to DS1's stuff before too (and to his daughters I think). It shows a shocking lack of respect, apart from the control issues.

How are you doing generally Nini? How's the studying and the planning?

DS2 had his second induction session at nursery, and, of course, was fine. Put him down, he walked straight in and stole another child's bit of banana off them ! I still feel crappy about it though, but am trying to keep a handle on it.

if you get involved in a whirlwind romance and it all seems great and then you go to the effort/expense of getting married it becomes much harder to turn around and say do you know what this was a bad idea. but not doing so causes a great deal of cognitive dissonance. you are forced to deny the evidence in order maintain the original premise that this was a good idea.

YYY. I thought you were actually describing me and my situation. FW and I met in the August, engaged at Christmas, married the following July. In between getting engaged and married, found out I was pregnant. A week before we got married we bought and moved into a lovely, big new house. I had so much invested in the relationship - having a baby, sold my own house, etc - that even though I spent the morning of my wedding in numb horror that I was actually doing this, I couldn't find a voice to say 'no'. What you say mink makes an awful, awful lot of sense.

God, that Cleveland story is just awful.

Disapointment - he hasn't gone yet. I was really really hoping that he would have gone whilst I was at work. He left a credit card statement pinned to the cupboard for me to find when I got up this morning. I have been paying off the credit card for the past year and not using it. In big black marker he had scrawled across it "BITCH. YOU HAVE BEEN PLANNING THIS FOR A YEAR" I guess implying that I have paid my credit card off so that I could walk away without debt. Oh my God I hate him. I almost want to ring him up and yell "WHY THE FUCK HAVEN'T YOU GONE YET?!?!" But I won't because I need to stay calm. Sorry, just get that off my chest. Just so fed up with this intimidation crap :(
MINKEMBRA - I did the denial thing two years ago. We split up and then got back together hoping that it would all work. You deny that things had got that bad, that you could still make it work. That if you change this and that it will be ok. sad. So another night spent in tense fear....I can't stand this. Shall I pack his stuff and leave it on the road?? AND he's left the fucking dog for me to walk (2 years ago when we got back together he got the dog - oh yes, that was one of his you "never let me have a say" moments - "I want a dog - I promise to take it with me to work every day." He has taken it with him about 3 times in two years. Grrrr) I never wanted the dog. What shall I do??? I don't want to live like this anymore!! Confusion, anger, tension all rolled into one :(

Nini poor you, how awful that sounds re your dad.

mink YYY re cognitive dissonance, that rings very true for me too.

Sorry got to run to collects dcs, chat properly later.

xxxx to all

Montessori - I don't think he has any intention of going at all. Sorry.

First things first - take a photo of the credit card statement as evidence of his abuse and scary behaviour.

Can you call 101 for some advice (and get them to red flag your address should you need to call in an emergency)? I know exactly how you feel re another tense evening, and worry that he's going to ramp things up. You need to be prepared for this, and plan what you will do if he does (ie call the police!).

Good to hear that your DS took to nursery ok today Curtis (banana stealing aside ). Try not to feel bad about it. DD has been going through a bad phase with nursery these last few weeks, screaming and crying when I drop her off, which makes me feel terrible. Kids have phases but you have to do what you have to do.

I'm very up and down. Studying is going ok but I'm mentally exhausted. This month is my first one in about 3 years where I havn't had any overdraft charges on my bank account, which is good. The gig on Thursday was good, although I got extremely stressed after spending a few unwanted hours with evil, manipulative, wankstain FIL on my return. Unfortunately FW has booked us another Thursday out in 2 weeks so I'm faced with the prospect of the same problem as last week all over again. My stress levels are sky high. I'm desperate to get out but things are taking sooooo long. FW is digging his heels over any attempt of mine to (secretly of course) get the house in a fit state to go on the market at the end of the year.

I also did something really REALLY fucking stupid the other night. Had sex with FW (a stupid thing in itself) but without protection. Now I'm terrified I might be pregnant.

Another YYY to cognitive dissonance from me, mink.

Montessori, I also agree that he's not going to leave. I think Curtis has the right idea. Please be careful.

Ok I will take a photo. Thanks Pony. If nothing else I can show his mum when she comes calling and blaming me for the breakup! I will have a plan ready....I only hope and pray he goes tonight but I think you may be right. But if he hasn't got a place why would he tell the kids he is leaving??? I can't spend tonight hiding away again. i am exhausted. I feel like confronting him just to get it over with. Like the dentist when you just want that appointment to come to get it finished!

yy to keeping credit card statement as evidence. that is intimidation. and yy to being ready to call the police. slightest sign get on the phone to them because the more evidence you have the better your chances of him leaving and you staying.

do you like the dog? if not, then presumable he will take it with him if he ever goes and if not then I am sure someone will rehome it. these things can all be overcome. first job it to get him to the far side of fuck off.

fingers crossed for you.

motessori I was reading a thing this morning about how the enabler of abuse is silence and how you should tell as many people as possible.

that said all my friends know what happened. my mum is in some kind of weird denial. I have not said it explicitly to the dsds nor to his mum 9although she knows he was 'hard work') but i am too scared that I say anything and he gets to hear about it it will cause all kinds of trouble. so i suppose I am keeping his nasty secret for him.

I never even really properly told him he is an abusive twunt. because i know exactly what he would say. 'no i am not, you are' blah blah blah followed by numerous threats about living in interesting times.

Minkembra may I use your "far side of fuck off" in my next argument with him - I love it. Thanks! It made me laugh. I know if I tol dhim this was emotional abuse he would say something like "oh, have you been reading your silly little books again, learning big words" I have had that one before. He will take the dog. If not I can re-house it.

Estate Agents just rang - there is a house to see on Saturday. I might be going first at this rate....

mont still with you, what a pillock.

Funny day for me. Day 9 of NC and I'm still in shock. I am disappointed when my phone goes and it's not him. There have been reminders of him everywhere today which were pleasant until I was picking up deodorant in Tesco and I had a flashback to when he texted me asking me to pick him some up and then he complained when I got a brand that he didn't like although I knew had used before. I was really upset with him and we had a fallout about it. I didn't understand why he couldn't just say thank you.

Been reading the book I was on about unthread earlier which was good. It asked me to picture my 'comstsnt', ie a good person that was always there for me and picture them speaking to me in the way FW has spoken to me. I could not imagine my sister speaking to me like this.

Oh and people who mentioned mimicking earlier - FW also used to do that with me.

I note how your FWs have largely hung around or you've had to really fight tooth and nail to get rid of. I'm confused as to how mine has gone so easily.

I am also confident that how broken I was at the end and how dramatic I was when it reached the final conclusion will see that he doesn't ever come back, along with the new girlfriend. A friend of mine believes this to be naive of me stating that reaction is just what he gets off on and means he feels in power and control and that when that has faded, he may well unearth again. But I think that now he has someone else to control, he'll have lost the impetus to control me. Do they try and control everyone at once or is one person enough? I don't know.

Oh and regarding the labelling. He's asked me if I thought he was EA and I couldn't bring myself to answer. Then he's suggested we both are. Then I told him when he was actually abusive on the occasions he did it but he ultimately turned it around on me. If I told him he was upsetting me, if I agreed not to do something anymore, if i told him how low I felt, he would tell me it was Emotional blackmail.

Collin - that turning it around thing and saying you were both the abuser. I have read that the EA can make someone become an EA or it can be a reaction to their behaviour. If you think about it when being EA it is a bit like being a cornered rat. You feel powerless, voiceless and then angry about feeling that way. That anger has to come out. Well I don't know about you but my anger comes out right back at him. Tonight I am super angry because of my treatment over the last few days. I am struggling massively to stay calm. But what he WANTS is a manic reaction so that he can point his finger and say "You are nuts. Look at the way you behave" THAT is why HE is the abuser. There are big weak losers.

Sam there is a lovely poster called Bibi Blocksberg who once was in need of this thread but now has moved on. She will probably turn up in her well tailored Conductor's uniform to issue your FW with a ticket to the FSOF. She rounds them up and takes them away
The MN message is FOTTFSOFAWYGTFOSM!

Nini can you get the MAP??? or go to family planning for an emergency IUD?? Don't risk it!

What does that mean???? FOTTFSOFAWYGTFOSM?? Please share! x

See Mont, even when I didn't react, I got accused of being passive aggressive. That what when I decided to apply Teflon FW coating and ignore him. That pissed him off too!

Oh and Sam the other advice often given here is to detach from the conversation. Pretend to be a fly watching yourself and FW. See him try to make you angry, try to get a rise from you.

FW Bingo:
Criticising
Belittling
Gaslighting
Accusing you of abuse/mental illness
Threatening to leave
Threatening to take the children away/tell SS you are an unfit mother

And House!! You are tonight's lucky winner of FW BINGO

It isn't funny but it does help you stay sane.

Fuck Off To The Far Side of Fuck and When You Get There Fuck Off Some More

Oh yes, when you don't react then you are happy that they are unhappy and you are the fucked ones - that's what I get! I went out last saturday (even though we are breaking up SHOCK HORROR) and I must be fucked for not crying ATH

FO to the FSOF and when you get there FO some more....