Support thread for those in emotionally abusive relationships...coming of age:21

[foolonthehill]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
a check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violenceAre you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

what couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
should I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

Hi ladies, I hope you are all OK and relatively fw free.

I am in my new house now. Move went OK and 10 days in, feeling more settled.

Dd is adjusting slowly. Went to see fw for the first time weekend just gone. She came back very subdued. I first put it down to the fact she hadn't been very well. (Went to a friends party, had a huge falling out that was not her doing with said friend, too much cake and too many sweets). She then said I miss Daddy and burst out crying :( She then said that Daddy said he still loves you mummy and wants us all to be together again. I had to tell her this was not going to happen and felt like I broke her heart all over again.

She has had a few wobbles and is sleepwalking almost every night, but my therapist has told me it is all normal and try not to worry.

Personally, I feel more relaxed now than I have ever done in the 14 years we were together. Maybe that's the hypnotherapy helping or the fact I no longer have to walk on eggshells.

bounty It is so very scary moving into your own place, but it is worth it! I had that no no no voice for 5 years. That no no has almost disappeared completely.

Working up the courage to contact CSA, I know sparks will fly!

Wahey dilley and bounty - is this the key to the door thread or what?! Well done

Busy busy here tonight! I've been rather busy myself this evening.

Very strange goings on here today. And you will all be totally un surprised to discover that FW has ignored my request re not contacting the dcs.

When will he learn that I'm not trying to stop him seeing them? But that the way he is going about it will get him nowhere? Even writing stuff here doesn't work.

bounty excellent news re house. It will be perfect for as long as you need it to be. After that you will find somewhere else perfect.

Has anyone read the lost licence thread? I was almost literally ROFL at it If anyone needs a little light entertainment, it's right there...

match and mink in particular I'm so sorry and for your DC that your FW cannot put his feelings about you to one side and actually try to be a good father to their children. It's bad enough when they attack and hurt us, but when it's the DC that must be ten times worse. I'm hoping my FW will manage to be a decent father but I suppose time will tell.

I'm a bit to admit that I don't know much about feminism but interestingly I've gradually realised that my FW seems to have issues with women - quite often calls women silly cow or silliy bitcg (behind their backs obviously - he wouldn't have the balls to do it to their face). He has fallen out with many female bosses, hated our ex-childminder after she refused to do the extra hours he wanted (even though not in the contract . When I first told my DParents about the EA in my marriage one of the things I clearly remember them saying is that they thought he had issues with women. He really disliked my mum but would occasionally see my dad.

Furniture wise I think I'm going to be ok. My parents live in a really tidy house. However I am surprised their loft has not fallen down as it turns out that stashed in it they have:
2 beds
2 chest of drawers
dining table
childs dining chair
1 adult dining chair
a large rug
and various other bits and pieces.

So the plan is that when I give them a wink they will hire a van, Load it up with all their junk wonderful spare furniture, pick up the few things here that I actually own and then move me in The no-no-sick feeling is now replaced with a little flicker of excitement.

butterfly thanks for explaining the stomach churning feeling. It's interesting that it due to conditioning. that really makes sense. And makes me much more determined to keep on ignoring it.

Just read this in a BBC news story (entirely different topic) but it struck me as totally appropriate here:

Without the past you cannot go into the future with wisdom

It struck me because I'm constantly wishing the past was different yet I cannot change it. So living with it and making it mean something is the best option I have.

Gosh - we're busy here tonight!

Dillie your post is so inspiring. I'm sorry DD is struggling a bit. How awful of your husband to even be talking to her about things like 'daddy still loves mummy'. That is typical FW using his child as a weapon. I'm sure these issues are normal and just a stage that she has to go through. I bet the lack of tension in the house will go miles towards helping her to settle in.

leclerc that is a helpful quote. I must admit I spend lots of time wishing I'd never met Fw or hadn't married him. But then that would mean no DD....

bounty, it is how my counsellor explained it to me, when i was going through the absolute anxiety constant sickness a couple of weeks ago. That bad feelings would not go away, they were there to help you, but you had to recognise why they were there. I paraphrase. She reminded me of the time before we split up where I had stood up to FW about something important to me, which opposed something he wanted and he tried to persuade me every which way to his point of view, in what was quite an aggressive and intimidating manner. It was the first time I had stood my ground and not looked for compromise as I was utterly and absolutely determined. The next day there was huge fall out which precipitated me ending the marriage, but she asked me to focus on the fact that I had indeed stood up to him.

Since she explained that and I recognised what was going on, it has become easier to stand my ground (I hope as I fully expect another onslaught this weekend, which has already begun), without feeling like I am physically ill and I can gradually concentrate on other things too.

So, counter the no-no voice with a yes, i am doing it, and break it down to little steps, and you will do it.

okay, i'm writing you an essay when i should be working, but my last point is that yards are good as they don't need weeded, and you can do lots of colourful planters which will make it look just like a garden. I'm finding it very therapeutic to turn seeds into flowers.

yes, dillie your ex should not be saying that he still loves you and wants you to be together to your dd, but she is naturally missing him. I would just acknowledge it and say I know, sweetie and I am sure he misses you too. To the other point, it is good that dd feels able to be open with her emotions to you. I think it is fine to say, yes, I know, but it wasn't working for me, and families work best if everyone is happy. It is an adjustment for her, but I think you are right to be clear that you are not getting back together. You could say to him that it is not fair or approrpiate to discuss these things with a small child if he brings ut up again. It is emotional manipulation.

I have a writing book that describes the past as 'compost' - it's the fertilizer that gives fuel to the present and the future. A rose will grow stronger and sweeter with compost. We will all grow stronger because of what we have come through.

And fab news from dillie too. all round. FWittery from FWs is expected, but that doesn't mean it's not still crappy of them.

Hi all

I posted yesterday some of my story on a separate thread and thought I'd come here and say hello and ask a couple of questions. I started the Freedom Programme online (still trying to leave my H but I've only realised over the last two months I'm being abused despite it going on for 15 years). Anyway my question is that I'm reading the programme and it's confusing because it's all very extreme examples of types of abuser. My H does some of the stuff (in a bad way) but doesn't fit the moulds so far. I was waiting for this moment of clarity and it hasn't come yet (haven't finished reading though). My concern is in the Bad Father section he was more like the good part rather than the bad (not normalising as he happens to adore our kids and would do anything for them - it's me he has the problem with). Does this sound strange to you because it's confusing me. May not get back until a bit later to see replies but thanks in advance and hugs to all xHi all

I posted yesterday some of my story on a separate thread and thought I'd come here and say hello and ask a couple of questions. I started the Freedom Programme online (still trying to leave my H but I've only realised over the last two months I'm being abused despite it going on for 15 years). Anyway my question is that I'm reading the programme and it's confusing because it's all very extreme examples of types of abuser. My H does some of the stuff (in a bad way) but doesn't fit the moulds so far. I was waiting for this moment of clarity and it hasn't come yet (haven't finished reading though). My concern is in the Bad Father section he was more like the good part rather than the bad (not normalising as he happens to adore our kids and would do anything for them - it's me he has the problem with). Does this sound strange to you because it's confusing me. May not get back until a bit later to see replies but thanks in advance and hugs to all x

Sorry! That posted twice. On phone so can't rectify it (new to this forum!) x

Welcome Petal and :( that you have to be here.
Can you get to a Freedom Programme in RL where you can talk?
Or phone women's aid back?
All of us 'minimize' the abuse - we did it for years just to survive.
Keep reading and talking - it is not easy to think clearly after years of FWs putting your brain through a mincer.
Have you bought either of the books by Lundy Bancroft?

hi petal, I too am sorry that you are here.
I haven't had the chance to read your other thread, but if you (or someone else) can signpost where it is, I will do so.
But purely from what you have said, if he is abusing you, he is not a good father because that is teaching the children negative lessons about relationships and also in the long term that you don't deserve respect and proper treatment . Secondly, how old are your kids? how does he react when they don't do what they are told? It is perfectly possible to be a great father when you have toddlers, because toddlers dote on you, but once you have a pre-pubsecent teenager who stands up to you, it is harder. So, you have to look quite closely at the dynamics of the 'good father', it is not necessarily overt immediately.
I agree with what arthritic has said, but otherwise, keep posting, there are lots of lovely ladies on this thread who will be able to help you and support you. It is a lot to come to terms with and it takes time.

Thanks for your replies x

arthritic I'd like to do the programme in RL but I'm either working or got both children or it's weekend when H is here. So I thought online was good place to start and I'd try and get to a RL after doing it (as I'd really like to go to the RL version) I haven't bought those books but will certainly have a look at them. Thanks. Guess it's all so hard to make sense of and although everyone says why they do it and whether they realise isn't important it kinda feels like it is iyswim...

butterflymeadow Hi, this is my post www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/1757314-Am-I-the-abuser-or-is-he-Totally-confused-by-it-all?pg=3&order= Not sure if that's what you meant by signposting (getting used to all the lingo!) My children are 3 and 1 years so exactly what you said about them not answering back etc. It's sad as they are both close to their dad (especially the 3 year old) but I know in the long run us separating will be better for them. Thank you for your input xxx

Sorry that any of you have to be here as well. You never think of yourself as abused, do you? :(

petal think of aabusive behaviour like a deck of cards. everyone has a different hand. some cards are more common than others.
(ironically this is something my ex used to say in reference to another matter but it applies).
so e.g. my ex not very financially or socially controlling extremely and deliberately useless at helping out/doing his share very shout and aggressive. some others on here have totally the opposite financially controlling but does most of the childcare never shout. (because you don't have to shout to be threatening and controlling).

the tendency is always to blame yourself. look at what happens to others and say oh but Thst's so much worse maybe i am making mountains out of mole hills. to look for reasons tat it cannot be true some days and Thst's it is on others.

last week i had pretty much decided i imagined the whole thing. then my ex revealed his true colours in all their technicolour nastiness. yet i would still say pretty much everyone n this thread has had a worse time than me. partly because they have and partly because we cope well with what we have learned/been trained to deal with i.e. our own situation.

i didn't even really realise til i had finished with him. but if someone

regularly does something to you that is abusive for the purposes of controlling you or making their own life easier and/or if they blame you fir it then it IS abuse. regardless of whether they Do the same to others or don't do it all the time.

oh and welcome.

morning rant over best get on.

Morning all, welcome petals

I would echo what butterfly said about good fathers and mink's deck of cards analogy

Things are still coming back to me but not sure how big a deal they are. One is that he had two settees in his living room and would never let me sit on the same one as him, the other is that he preferred me to sit on his bean bag on the floor rather than lie on the bed with him if we were both reading or on our laptops. I always hated that.

noyou'renotthebadone welcome. I never had a thread of my own as my story long and complicated and also FW knew I was addicted to on MN a lot.

I have an odd family background, think DF and me have AS, and DM and DB have traits. I think FW has it too and that is why I sought him out. After that, it was all a huge, pretty dysfunctional, interaction, out of which arose emotional, verbal and financial (cocklodging) abuse. I am, even now, not sure FW had any idea he was in anyway being unreasonable. I worked v hard at improving myself and my marriage, while FW just - didn't.

I know what you mean about decisions, both the taking a long time and wanting to be joint. But honestly, since I have divorced, I am finding that without FW decisions are much easier, and if they go awry then I sort it. Having FW there actually made it much harder to make decisions, only I didn't realise it at the time.

Amithebadone it is NOT you definitely not. It is so hard to see when ur inside it but it is not your fault at all. It is usually when dcs say things you realise and startto see that something has to change

Am not feeling up to offering much in way of advice hope still ok to post helps to getit out

Am feeling v low atm as if I am losing the strength to leave. Its hard as I still love fw fwin so much in spite of all the abuse.

Plus its hard to be alone he is very hands on with kids when here I struggle alone. And miss intimacy as he was less abusive in that area

Rather than feel stronger without him I feel sad rather than relieved which is silly really. I know he wont change

Am scared as family have said they will disown me if I leave so o will be totally alone

If I do big changes must build my strength to cope with it all

Grr so frustrated with myself for not doing what I need to do

I'm sorry you're feeling low yummy. Think sadness is natural but remember how abusive he has been. They are capable of giving with one hand but taking with the other. It must be scary without your family but surely you're already lonely?

Don't be frustrated with yourself, it'll be ok in the end. But you must acknowledge he is dangerous and gather any strength you can muster. You know this sweetheart.

yummy take your time, however, do stay safe. I was thinking today that I loved FW for a v long time, even till after had instructed sol re petition, but did I love him with all my heart? Far from it, all that remained was a glowing cinder, which could not, would not re-ignite unless he breathed on it.

I am lucky. He did nothing except become nastier. And the cinder turned to clinker.

Course it is :) We sometimes patrol look out for people on other threads, and point them here, so lots of us have had a thread too. But sometimes those who have not experienced EA post some ill-informed (but understandably so) replies.